Seravalli bodies Kyle Dubas

[BraveCanadian]

A kid who was given the keys to a kingdom on the rise failed, and was then given the keys to another kingdom on the decline (along with more money and a better title).. failed again?

Shocking.

I don't know how Dubas talked his way into these jobs but I am jealous at him making multiple millions a year doing a job anyone could do while I am stuck working for a living.

 

[MCR74]

From Dubas' viewpoint, it was either to be an NHL general manager or the assistant manager at the Burger King ... but BK wasn't hiring.

His analytics background is much more suited to Burger King.

 

[MCR74]

I don't read or listen to anything by Seravalli any more.

He's an ignorant fat pig with a miserable case of penis-envy for Kyle Dubas' success. What has Seravalli ever done that compares favourably with Dubas, anyway?

I agree he's a fat pig, but what success (unless you count Kyle weaseling his way into two GM positions)?

 

[PaulD]

Crosby wanted all his friends to stick around. Hardly dubas fault for where the Pens are at today.

Maybe so on Sid and his TWO long time buddies Gino and Letang - but how does that excuse Dubas deals on Jarry, Graves, Guentzel, Reily Smith, and so on.
Play station GM. Penguins will be irrelevant for the next decade under this poser.

 

[ToDavid]

There’s plenty of valid criticism but the fact that Seravelli opens the article with the “I won’t be GM anywhere else” thing and goes on about how Dubas was viewed as a “boy genius” who was “immune to criticism” (LOL) in Toronto tells me this article was written for jilted Leafs fans, by a guy who seems to have a personal axe to grind, not for any real analysis of the situation in Pittsburgh.

I’m as disappointed with his tenure in Toronto as anyone but people really need to move on. This is the type of article you might expect from a fan blog, not from a guy who purports to be a legitimate hockey journalist.

 

[Fatass]

Can Pittsburgh afford (financially) to fire Dubas? They might be stuck with him, due to their financial constraints.

 

[General Fanager]

He's done a pretty shitty job of not rebuilding! Even if the strategic plan wasn't his, it's not like he's tactically executing on it very well at all

I don't think Dubas has even started rebuilding. I mean when you have Crosby and Malkin and the gang you clearly go for it always. The real rebuild will be when those guys retire

 

[Voight]

He's really good at corporate speak so the suits from multi billion dollar ownership groups like MLSE and FSG fall in love with him. Those dark rimmed glasses were a great investment as well.

Post in thread '[Friedman] Pittsburgh hires Kyle Dubas as President of Hockey Operations'

Jun 1, 2023

This is a good lesson for you kids. Get yourself a pair of black framed glasses and hang around your local rinks with a clipboard using words like synergies and derivatives. You too can make 7M usd as an NHL executive.

• Channelcat

• 
• 

 

[qc14]

I don't think Dubas has even started rebuilding. I mean when you have Crosby and Malkin and the gang you clearly go for it always. The real rebuild will be when those guys retire

I agree. My point is he's done a horrible job "going for it"

 

[Voight]

That cliff must have been really, really tall.

View attachment 962054

Everyone knew that Karlssons 101 point season as the result of playing zero defence and him being on a garbage team that only cared to boost his point totals so he could return more in a trade. Getting traded to any other team, let alone a half decent pone with talent like Pittsburgh was going to result in a point decrease on his end.

 

[SomeDude]

Can Pittsburgh afford (financially) to fire Dubas? They might be stuck with him, due to their financial constraints.

What financial restraints? FSG is worth over $13 billion.

We will not fire him for the same reason Mike Sullivan is still coaching, the team is overseen by morons. Being owned by a conglomerate of finance bros is not fun thing.

 

[Voight]

Can Pittsburgh afford (financially) to fire Dubas? They might be stuck with him, due to their financial constraints.

They are owned by FSG so money isn't an issue.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

Duh. Is his next article titled “Hitler. The more I read about the guy, the less I like him”?

This would be funnier if there wasn't a movement, amplified by exposure on twitter, saying Hitler was the good guy.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Whilst I think there are absolutely fair criticisms that should be directed at Dubas, this really misses the context that the Pens were already failing when he was hired, and everyone knows he was hired under instruction not to rebuild (which they needed to do).

Then whomever gave him those instructions is the real GM and they should be blamed for the mess, and Dubas should not have taken the job.

Of course, even with those constraints, Dubas made stupid moves. The Karlsson trade was a full-blown predictable disaster.

 

[TooManyHumans]

I think it is true both that Dubas has not been good and that he has been placed in an impossible situation. There is no saving this team right now, especially with Sullivan apparently as coach for life, and there is no tearing it down while the stars are still here. The best hope for Pens fans is that the team continues to fall out of the Wild Card race and there is no other option but to trade away anybody they can.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Anyone pointing to the trades Dubas has made as evidence that he has done a bad job doesn't know what they're talking about. His failures come from:

1. His horrendous UFA signings, namely the Jarry and Graves deals.
2. His refusal to fire Sullivan, or at minimum shake up the coaching staff around Sullivan.

The trades have been fine overall. The Guentzel trade is looking fairly promising for the Penguins, the Yager-McGroarty swap looks like a positive as well, getting Tomasino for a 4th was great and Dubas managed to turn a 3rd into a season of Smith and a 2nd.

The Karlsson deal gets criticism, but it was 3 cap dumps (at the time), a 1st and 2nd for a defenseman coming off a 100 point season. Karlsson has been good for the Penguins as well, the team was just not in a position to be trading an additional 1st and trying to keep the window open. In hindsight they don't do that deal because they should have started selling immediately, but the deal made total sense when it happened.

 

[AvroArrow]

Whilst I don't think trading for Karlsson was the smartest move, I don't necessarily think it was a bad move. It's definitely worked out for the Sharks but the reality is that he moved a bunch of players that weren't producing for a player coming off a great season on an awful team. The issue was I don't think Karlsson works in Sullivan's systems.

Ryan Graves contract looked solid when it was signed. Even though his production really wasn't there last season, he finished as a +10 and I don't think was particularly bad. He is shooting far less than his time with the Avs and Devils, so again, is it a player not fitting into a system?

I just don't think Dubas has been the disaster he is being made out to be here. Seravalli, from memory, was always extremely critical of Dubas in Toronto as well despite Dubas constantly adding toughness to the Leafs that all 'experts' claimed they needed. Dubas got the boot because he dare suggested the core be broken up.

False

He got bent over by RFA's who have literally 0 leverage in a negotiation and handed out atrocious contracts, NMC, bad term and bad AAC

Made arguably the worst trade of all time, Kadri for Kerfoot + Barrie

Traded away the pick that was used to select Konecny so he could trade draft Dermott instead

Repeatedly lost in the 1st round and didn't address the biggest needs

He went to the media and said it's Toronto or nowhere and he wouldn't "pop up somewhere else next week" he tried to use his family as leverage and literally demanded Brendan Shanahans job with his proposed offer

He was already speaking to Pittsburgh and it was leaked that they had an offer ready for him, he was trying to use that as leverage to squeeze money out of Toronto, once again after repeatedly failing in the playoffs

He traded away our 1st to dump Marleau (Seth Jarvis)

Traded a 1st for an injured Nik Foligno, when Taylor Hall was available. Then said that he had no interest in Hall, who was proven to be a significantly better player

There was lots of other issues but those were the biggest reasons he got the boot. He was completely clueless as GM here, apart from the Dubasites nobody wanted him here.

 

[thefutures]

Maybe so on Sid and his TWO long time buddies Gino and Letang - but how does that excuse Dubas deals on Jarry, Graves, Guentzel, Reily Smith, and so on.
Play station GM. Penguins will be irrelevant for the next decade under this poser.

Team has no chance under anyone once the players start deciding who stays and who leaves. Imagine if ovi demanded backstrom keep playing and to keep kuznetsov.

 

[PaulD]

Team has no chance under anyone once the players start deciding who stays and who leaves. Imagine if ovi demanded backstrom keep playing and to keep kuznetsov.

Backstrom retired from injury. Kuznetsov ...yep totally agree.
But since you want to bring "imagine Washington" into it. Imagine if their GM traded for Karlsson, Signed Jarry and Graves to huge deals, took on Rielly Smiths contract and signed guys like Hayes. Traded someone like Guentzal for second rounder.
I'm not saying I disagree with not moving Malkin ...... Burke snd Hextall were completely incompetent in their rokes. But that doesn't let Dubas off the hook for his lousey decisions. You're graded on what you do since you've been hired ......not on how stupid the last guy was.

 

[thefutures]

Backstrom retired from injury.
I'm not saying I disagree with not moving Malkin ...... but that doesn't let Dubas off rhe hook for his lousey decisions. You're judge on what you do since you've been hired ......not on how stupid the last guy was.

He took over a pile of trash. Dubas is no magic man. Loooong rebuild based on the decisions made before he got the job. Can't even rebuild cause he can't trade half the guys that are signed.

 

[PaulD]

He took over a pile of trash. Dubas is no magic man. Loooong rebuild based on the decisions made before he got the job. Can't even rebuild cause he can't trade half the guys that are signed.

So yea. Since it's a looooong rebuild let's go get Karlsson, Reilly, Jarry, Eler, Accari, Hayes and trade Guentzal for nothing. .....that's how you start a rebuild.

He gives up a first rounder for Foligno at trade deadline.
But accepts for a second rounder for Guentzal at trade deadline. HAA!

I felt sorry for Pens fans the day they signed Harry Potter as President/GM.
They still have my sympathy.
But hey they had a great, great run.
There isn't another coming under Kyle Dufuss

 

[PaulD]

Everyone knew that Karlssons 101 point season as the result of playing zero defence and him being on a garbage team that only cared to boost his point totals so he could return more in a trade. Getting traded to any other team, let alone a half decent pone with talent like Pittsburgh was going to result in a point decrease on his end.

and Dubass fell for it. 30 other GMs didn't.

 

[thefutures]

So yea. Since it's a looooong rebuild let's go get Karlsson, Reilly, Jarry, Eler, Accari, Hayes and trade Guentzal for nothing. .....that's how you start a rebuild.

He gives up a first rounder for Foligno at trade deadline.
But accepts for a second rounder for Guentzal at trade deadline. HAA!

I felt sorry for Pens fans the day they signed Harry Potter as President/GM.
They still have my sympathy.
But hey they had a great, great run.
There isn't another coming under Kyle Dufuss

I'm not saying dubas is good lol, I'm saying it's not his fault the pens are awful. Once there is a mandate set by anyone other than the GM the GM will fail. He came to Pitt and accepted the mandate that you can't fire the coach or trade the legacy guys. They added the Norris winner and it had no impact, that tells you about the team he took over. Crosby and co thought they could compete so he tried to add to the team and it failed.

 

[ijuka]

Anyone pointing to the trades Dubas has made as evidence that he has done a bad job doesn't know what they're talking about. His failures come from:

1. His horrendous UFA signings, namely the Jarry and Graves deals.
2. His refusal to fire Sullivan, or at minimum shake up the coaching staff around Sullivan.

The trades have been fine overall. The Guentzel trade is looking fairly promising for the Penguins, the Yager-McGroarty swap looks like a positive as well, getting Tomasino for a 4th was great and Dubas managed to turn a 3rd into a season of Smith and a 2nd.

The Karlsson deal gets criticism, but it was 3 cap dumps (at the time), a 1st and 2nd for a defenseman coming off a 100 point season. Karlsson has been good for the Penguins as well, the team was just not in a position to be trading an additional 1st and trying to keep the window open. In hindsight they don't do that deal because they should have started selling immediately, but the deal made total sense when it happened.

It amazes me how Dubas has his army of apologists no matter what he does.

Yes, Granlund was traded as if he was a cap dump, but in reality he's been probably a 8 mil forward on a 5mil deal for Sharks, so he's... not been a cap dump.

"The deal made no sense but the deal made sense" yeah, strong argument.

Guentzel trade looking promising? Everyone on the planet thought that they should have received more for Guentzel.


Ridiculous reading some of this stuff. His trading has not been fine, or even close to being fine.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It amazes me how Dubas has his army of apologists no matter what he does.

Yes, Granlund was traded as if he was a cap dump, but in reality he's been probably a 8 mil forward on a 5mil deal for Sharks, so he's... not been a cap dump.

"The deal made no sense but the deal made sense" yeah, strong argument.

Okay, go look at the Granlund trade from the 2023 season and see if people thought that Granlund was an $8 million player at the time of that deal.

Guentzel trade looking promising? Everyone on the planet thought that they should have received more for Guentzel.


Ridiculous reading some of this stuff.

And the pieces the Penguins got are looking extremely promising right now. Koivunen is the 2nd leading rookie scorer in the AHL this year with 27 points in 32 games, and Ponomarev is also playing pretty well with 19 points in 24 games. Brunicke was so good for the Penguins in camp that he nearly made the NHL roster to start the year, and looks to be arguably their top prospect at this point on par with McGroarty. Bunting has been extremely productive for the NHL team as well, being about a 60 point guy since the deal.

Just because HFBoards doesn't have a clue who the prospects the Penguins got back for Guentzel doesn't mean it was a bad trade. Which was a point heavily reiterated by Hurricanes fans in that thread at the time of the trade, the Penguins weren't getting any elite prospects back but the prospects they were getting were good prospects.