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Seravalli bodies Kyle Dubas

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Divine said:
This doesn't make any sense.

So why did he trade for Karlsson? Why did he throw the highest offer at Graves as a UFA? Why did he re-sign Jarry and trade for Bunting who just signed a multi-year contract?

It seems everyone knew that the Pens were failing, except Dubas, who didn't. It's very fair to criticize him for that.

The last thing you do on a rebuilding team is to trade their 1st round pick for a 10M defensemen that was unmoveable the prior season. If the argument is he inherited a rebuilding team, then he's being fairly criticized for immediately trading that teams first round pick and giving out and/or acquiring older players on bad contracts.
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It does make sense when you instruction from ownership is "we need to compete for another cup with this core".

Why trade for Karl? He is a dynamic dman coming off a 100-point season whilst on a horrific team. Added bonus - you move players the previous GM brought in that bust and were taking roster spots. Now, we agree adding the first was dumb (and my team directly benefitted from it), but I've never claimed Dubas has done a good job.

He was put in a lose situation and made bad moves trying to salvage the core. It's very much like the end of Doug Wilson's tenure with the Sharks. Everyone knew the Sharks needed to rebuild but he kept trying to hold on making move after move until the floor fell out.
 
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If I'm Dubas and I get to Pittsburg and out find it's the Pittsburg Crosbys and I get the pressure to not rebuild from the owners, then I am absolutely going to sign myself to a 7 year contract. I am 39 years old and the league LOVES to stick with what it knows. I know I am employable as a high level hockey executive for 40 more years if I really want. Lou Lamoriello is 82 years old.

So I sign 7 years and say yes to the direction of Stanley Cup or bust and pull out all the stops. Do whatever it takes. Trade for Karlsson maybe. That might work. In reality I'm probably already thinking about the next team I get to play with for 3-5 years for however many millions.

And if I was Frank Seravalli I'd be pretty pissed and think "why couldn't that be me?"

And we're both right. And we both kinda suck at our jobs. We'd be selling houses if we weren't in hockey.
 
Divine said:
This doesn't make any sense.

So why did he trade for Karlsson? Why did he throw the highest offer at Graves as a UFA? Why did he re-sign Jarry and trade for Bunting who just signed a multi-year contract?

It seems everyone knew that the Pens were failing, except Dubas, who didn't. It's very fair to criticize him for that.

The last thing you do on a rebuilding team is to trade their 1st round pick for a 10M defensemen that was unmoveable the prior season. If the argument is he inherited a 'failing' team, then he's being fairly criticized for immediately trading that teams first round pick and giving out and/or acquiring older players on bad contracts.
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Dubas' has earned a lot of well deserved criticism since becoming Pens GM. He's earned quite a bit in fact.

But calling the Pens rebuilding isn't quite accurate - whoever was GM was going to be expected to make the team as competitive as possible while Crosby and Malkin were still under contract.
 
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SEALBound said:
Signing on to be GM of the Pens when he did, that 100% came with the acknowledgment that they were about to be absolute garbage. Can't look at a core that's 37yo+ and think "Oh man, we are sooooo getting a cup. Trade dem futures!"
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cough cough Karlsson lol...

the brilliance of Mike Grier though... saved $45 million and gets a 1st round pick on top of it... a nice little boost for the Sharks rebuild.
 
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NinjaKick said:
cough cough Karlsson lol...

the brilliance of Mike Grier though... saved $45 million and gets a 1st round pick on top of it... a nice little boost for the Sharks rebuild.
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Tough to know how moves will end up, especially when it comes to 1st round picks.

Didn't Ottawa give Colorado a 1st that turned into 4th OV Byram?

Didn't the Sharks give Ottawa a 1st for Karlsson that turned into 3OV Stutzle?

Not something that is unique to just Dubas.
 
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SEALBound said:
Tough to know how moves will end up, especially when it comes to 1st round picks.

Didn't Ottawa give Colorado a 1st that turned into 4th OV Byram?

Didn't the Sharks give Ottawa a 1st for Karlsson that turned into 3OV Stutzle?

Not something that is unique to just Dubas.
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the sens and sharks made a bad trade so that makes it ok for dubas to make a bad trade? I'm not understanding your point sorry
 
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NinjaKick said:
the sens and sharks made a bad trade so that makes it ok for dubas to make a bad trade? I'm not understanding your point sorry
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Teams make moves that don't pan out all the time. There's no "it's okay" to it because that insinuates a GM would have the foresight to know it's a bad trade. Happens to a lot of GMs. It's nature of the business. Just say, that's not unique to just Dubas.
 
I don't read or listen to anything by Seravalli any more.

He's an ignorant fat pig with a miserable case of penis-envy for Kyle Dubas' success. What has Seravalli ever done that compares favourably with Dubas, anyway?
 
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Caspian said:
Nah he just didn't pull off the retool. A retool is very possible, look at Washington. Rebuilt their blueline, goaltending, and forward group. I'd argue the combo of Crosby/Malkin are better than Ovechkin/Wilson.
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Not only that, but Washington has drafted really well for where they picked and have much better prospects than Pittsburgh.
 
SeanMoneyHands said:
Dubas has connections in front office, that's why he's employed as GM. Not because he's actually smart.
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Can you elaborate on that? I'm shocked at how well he's paid and the opportunities he gets with absolutely nothing to show for it... At least Peter Chiarelli was GM of a Cup winner, even if he inherited all the star players, traded away its future star players, and almost destroyed that team like he did the Oilers for a few seasons.

NinjaKick said:
cough cough Karlsson lol...

the brilliance of Mike Grier though... saved $45 million and gets a 1st round pick on top of it... a nice little boost for the Sharks rebuild.
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Don't forget cleverly snagging Askarov! San Jose will be a scary team once Celebrini and Askarov get going. I just hope San Jose doesn't win a Cup before McDrai...

I met Mike Grier when I was a kid and he was the nicest dude. He became my favorite player for at least one season after that. Very glad to see him rising up as a GM. Also, I like that he did the Oilers a solid and took Ceci...
 
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WhiskeyYerTheDevils said:
Karlsson was obviously not a great fit, Dubas should have had the foresight to know this.

No it didn't. Graves was visibly declining in the second half of the year in NJ. He was terrible. The contract was bad the moment he was signed. Anyone paying attention should have anticipated this.
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For me what did it was the term. Look, whatever, you want to try your luck with Graves at that price tag on a 1 or 2 year deal? Go for it. Same with the Jarry extension. But when you start giving these guys 5+ year terms or whatever, that's when you messed up big.

IMO, term should only ever be given to your "elite" guys. If your depth guys want term, move on from them and find similar players who you can land for 2 years or less. Dubas doubled down on this mistake with the Jarry and Graves deals.
 
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Sidney the Kidney said:
For me what did it was the term. Look, whatever, you want to try your luck with Graves at that price tag on a 1 or 2 year deal? Go for it. Same with the Jarry extension. But when you start giving these guys 5+ year terms or whatever, that's when you messed up big.

IMO, term should only ever be given to your "elite" guys. If your depth guys want term, move on from them and find similar players who you can land for 2 years or less. Dubas doubled down on this mistake with the Jarry and Graves deals.
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I am in full 100% agreement with you, in an ideal world or rather from a philosophical standpoint. The problem when it comes to free agency when you have 32 teams is that capable players become scarce. There's never an ideal market which is why we see bad contracts handed out nearly every year.

Looking at Graves, the Penguins needed a good top 4 LD coming in around that $4mil price range and looking back, there weren't many options. Soucy would be have been much preferred. Otherwise, you're taking on a chance on someone. So in order to get those, what GMs would call, a more dependable guy, you have to offer the term otherwise, you're probably not going to get your guy. It's further pared down as the player you want has to be willing to sign with your team as well. OEL is an example of a guy who maybe wanted to pick his team a little more carefully. Some guys won't sign in Canada, some want to be closer to home. There's a bunch of things that go into. If you stand hard on the "no more than 2 years" and someone offers 3, you lost your guy and you're left letting Chad Rudwedel filling in.

For Graves, I'm more mad at Graves than I am Dubas for sucking ass. Probably even more mad that he's another example of a decent player who looks like shit under Sullivan. It's on Dubas at the end of the day though. Fire Sullivan.
 
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