Seravalli bodies Kyle Dubas

[qc14]

Whilst I think there are absolutely fair criticisms that should be directed at Dubas, this really misses the context that the Pens were already failing when he was hired, and everyone knows he was hired under instruction not to rebuild (which they needed to do).

He's done a pretty shitty job of not rebuilding! Even if the strategic plan wasn't his, it's not like he's tactically executing on it very well at all

 

[Brookbank]

Dubas is elite at appearing to be the smartest guy in the room until you analyze his moves with hindsight and realize he missing 75% and hits 25%.

Off the top of my head as Pens GM
- Jarry contract
- Karlsson trade
- Graves contract
- Trash return on Guentzel

Thats a lot of damage in like 1.5 years

I don't get what ppl think he was supposed to do with Jarry. He never acquired Jarry. He was in the system. Teams rarely just drop their own goalies that they developed and who are playing good.

It looks like Jarry is busting. That isn't easy to foresee.

 

[Turin]

His bad moves are Jarry and Graves, and there was a logic to both of those even if I disagreed with the Jarry signing when it was made. Anybody who rips on the Karlsson deal doesn’t know what they are talking about.

 

[hamzarocks]

Karlsson was obviously not a great fit, Dubas should have had the foresight to know this.

No it didn't. Graves was visibly declining in the second half of the year in NJ. He was terrible. The contract was bad the moment he was signed. Anyone paying attention should have anticipated this.

You dont give 6 years to Ryan Grave type D-man and expect it to work out

Heck the leafs gave the same deal to Chris Tanev who depsite okder has always been a much more reliable d-man and player than Graves and I dread years 4-6 of that deal

Graves deal's best case was 2 good years + 2 down years then LTIR or retain + deal for mid picks.

He fell off from the get go and really wasnt a guy that should have gotten more than a 3M x 3 year deal

 

[Vukotal Recall]

His bad moves are Jarry and Graves, and there was a logic to both of those even if I disagreed with the Jarry signing when it was made. Anybody who rips on the Karlsson deal doesn’t know what they are talking about.

Not to get too far off-topic, but seems pretty relevant: I love Erik Karlsson, so what's happened? Why has his play fallen off a cliff in Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, etc.? Or is he actually playing better than he gets credit for?

 

[Caspian]

Whilst I think there are absolutely fair criticisms that should be directed at Dubas, this really misses the context that the Pens were already failing when he was hired, and everyone knows he was hired under instruction not to rebuild (which they needed to do).

Nah he just didn't pull off the retool. A retool is very possible, look at Washington. Rebuilt their blueline, goaltending, and forward group. I'd argue the combo of Crosby/Malkin are better than Ovechkin/Wilson.

 

[Brodeur]

In a trade deadline period in which six players were traded for first-round picks, Dubas did not receive a first-round pick in exchange for the two-time 40-goal scorer and point-per-game Guentzel.

I don't disagree with the overall premise but the part about the Guentzel trade kinda grinded my gears. The Penguins did get pick #44 as part of the return, but Seravalli acts like there's this cavernous gap between the Canes 1st (#27) and #44.

I understand in general that the term "first rounder" sounds sexier and that player gets to be taken on national TV so expectations are higher. But a lot of years the gap between a late first rounder and mid second rounder isn't that huge. It's early but Harrison Brunicke seems like a solid pick at #44.

I haven't kept close tabs but it seems like Koivunen/Ponomarev are doing decently in the AHL and Dubas seemed to value 'older' prospects who might be able to contribute with Crosby rather than a couple more 2024 (or beyond) picks who might be 4-5 years away.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think it's an extremely easy argument to make about Dubas doing a bad job but this article sucks ass. The Smith trade discussion is a great example of how biased and shitty this article is:

Here's how the Smith trade went:

1. The Penguins traded a 2024 3rd for Smith
2. Smith put up 13 goals and 40 points in 76 games for the Penguins.
3. The Penguins trade Smith with $1.25 million in retention to the Rangers for a 2027 2nd.

How Seravalli frames that is:

1. The Penguins traded a 3rd for Smith.
2. Smith had a below average season where his goal production was cut in half.
3. The Penguins then traded Smith for a pick that is "one round higher in 2027 (!) that won't help the Penguins until 2030" and added $1.25 million in dead cap space.

It is so obviously written with an agenda that it reads like a biased fan post. Calling a second rounder "a pick that is one round higher" is obviously intentional, because clearly saying "he traded a 3rd for a 2nd" makes Dubas look good. Same thing with adding the exclamation point after 2027 and saying "the pick won't help the Penguins until 2030".

Dubas has made some dogshit UFA signings, has a meh trade record and has drafted well for the Penguins. Overall, I'd give it a poor grade so I'm not trying to defend his job here. Still, this article sucks and sounds like a HFBoard rant.

 

[Ulysses31]

kind of dealt a band hand. thought the game plan was to try n sneak in a playoff run or 2 while quietly starting a rebuild. not that i think he is a great Gm. botched AM34, nylanders, marners contracts off the top of my head.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I remember calling him Kyle Dumbass once. My Leaf friend defended him to the end of the earth

I think I will send him this article.

 

[SomeDude]

Whilst I think there are absolutely fair criticisms that should be directed at Dubas, this really misses the context that the Pens were already failing when he was hired, and everyone knows he was hired under instruction not to rebuild (which they needed to do).

….and he immediately nailed the coffin shut by trading for the ghost of Karlsson, handcuffing the team to a crappy goalie in Jarry, signing an empty sweater in Graves, and sticking with Mike Sullivan.

The guy did more damage in a week than the much maligned Hextall did in 2 years.

 

[BB79]

How is Dubas still employed in the NHL? Who is he related to? His dad a mafia boss?

 

[Quinning]

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Dubas has always been an absolute disaster of a GM… I don’t get how he got this massive contract from Pittsburgh

 

[johnnyonthspot]

Dubas comes across as very arrogant and Seravalli hated him since his Toronto days. I assume something happened between them. Maybe he asked for an interview and Dubas said no.

I liked Dubas's candor in the Prime Series about the Leafs, which made me realize one has to be insane to work for that organization but he is in an untenable situation trying to build around 3 generational talents. They have to cut the cord and feel the pain like Chicago did with Kane and Co.

 

[TheNumber4]

Dubas is elite at appearing to be the smartest guy in the room until you analyze his moves with hindsight and realize he missing 75% and hits 25%.

Off the top of my head as Pens GM
- Jarry contract
- Karlsson trade
- Graves contract
- Trash return on Guentzel

Thats a lot of damage in like 1.5 years

His glasses do ALOT of heavy lifting.

 

[canuckslover10]

Dubas has been handcuffed, they don't want to trade Crosby malkin or letang and expect to be a playoff team, they need to rebuild right now rather then wasting 3-5 years just for Crosby, like Crosby is an all time great but the organization should be bigger than a player no matter the caliber.


That being said overall hes done a poor job his two biggest failings being the Karlsson trade and the Guentzal trade.

He should have kept guentzal and used the extra cap space from not trading for Karlsson for two top 4 dmen at 4-6 million a piece.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Whilst I think there are absolutely fair criticisms that should be directed at Dubas, this really misses the context that the Pens were already failing when he was hired, and everyone knows he was hired under instruction not to rebuild (which they needed to do).

yeah, this is quite overlooked. He was never going to succeed under those instructions.

Not to get too far off-topic, but seems pretty relevant: I love Erik Karlsson, so what's happened? Why has his play fallen off a cliff in Pittsburgh with Crosby, Malkin, etc.? Or is he actually playing better than he gets credit for?

He was already falling off the cliff before Pittsburgh. I certainly wanted no part of him in EDM at the time

 

[Leafs87]

With 20 years seniority on Dubas, Seravelli is salty he didn’t get the Pens job. On a serious note, Dubas will be a mixed bag or wtf moves in both a positive and negative direction. Unfortunately for Toronto they were mainly negatives around his contract negotiations.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Worst GM in the NHL since his first day with the Leafs

 

[Divine]

I liked Dubas's candor in the Prime Series about the Leafs, which made me realize one has to be insane to work for that organization but he is in an untenable situation trying to build around 3 generational talents. They have to cut the cord and feel the pain like Chicago did with Kane and Co.

Dubas is no doubt an intelligent guy because he's convinced people to pay him millions of dollars for his knowledge.

Having said that, he has never had success anywhere he went. That's why other hockey people didn't like him. He didn't even win anything in junior, where it's much, much easier. That's why guys like Mark Hunter quit when he got picked for GM. His resume is basically him using big words and stats and traditional hockey people who have actually won before dislike the fact that he gets picked before them because his grammar is better.

I'm pretty confident that Lou would have accomplished more with the Leafs than Dubas did. It's not a high bar though, and that's on Dubas. Dubas traded 4 1st round picks to win 1 round.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

Dubas is a nerd, Serevelli is a shit stain. Not much more to be discussed out side of that..

 

[Steddy33]

Come on now, how hasn't it been mentioned. Isn't his biggest failure not firing his long past due to be fired head coach?

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Worst GM in the NHL since his first day with the Leafs

Nah. There were lots worse. Bergevin, Bowman etc.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Nah. There were lots worse. Bergevin, Bowman etc.

True, the guy who has done nothing is better than the guys that have had success.