Sens Lounge: "Pleeease won't you be.....my neighbour"

[jbeck5]

Living within your means only goes so far when rent is 80% of your monthly pay, and there are no cheaper rooms in the city.

There is a lot of imbalance out there right now. Many blue collar and entry jobs no longer giving full time hours but expecting open availability so you can't get a second job. More people competing for each one of those jobs. Not to mention an entire wave of boomers who have either been downsized or have come out of retirement because a pension set up in 1990 isn't enough to pay basic bills now.

It really is tough out there at the lower income levels.

I made minimum wage throughout COVID working at sportchek. My paychecks were $1,100. So $2,200 a month.

I had no problem living on my own, buying $100 of weed a month, $100 of alcohol a month..always had people over on Fridays and Saturdays...was fun.

Managed to save too.

$700 on rent.
$100 on weed.
$100 on alcohol.
$120 car insurance.
$100 on gas.
$250 on food.
$50 on phone.
$500 towards investments in TFSA


That's the extent of my expenses...$1420 +500 savings.

$2,200-$1,920= $280.

So if I felt like not doing much, I could invest $780 that month...if not, I could spend like a whole extra $300 on something...maybe save it for a couple months and buy an Xbox...or a new tv...smoke weed every day...get drunk on weekends with friends...drive a fun RWD manual.

You can have a fun life and save money while making minimum wage...so I really agree with the thought that if you know how to live within your means, you can have a fun life.

The biggest issue is rent being 80% of your income. I've seen rooms being rented in a house for under $1,000. At minimum wage, that's only like 40% of your income.

I would never live somewhere that cost over half my income. I would rather go back to my parents in my 30s than pay 80% of my income on rent.

 

[Stylizer1]

Living within your means only goes so far when rent is 80% of your monthly pay, and there are no cheaper rooms in the city.

There is a lot of imbalance out there right now. Many blue collar and entry jobs no longer giving full time hours but expecting open availability so you can't get a second job. More people competing for each one of those jobs. Not to mention an entire wave of boomers who have either been downsized or have come out of retirement because a pension set up in 1990 isn't enough to pay basic bills now.

It really is tough out there at the lower income levels.

I agree but we didn't get here over night. We had been marching down this road for a very long time. We've become a nation of consumers and not producers and right now there is not enough money to consume.

 

[jbeck5]

I certainly hope it's positive circumstances.

Looking at everything that has happened with small businesses over the last 5 years, it would not surprise me if they couldn't survive. Centretown is not what it used to be for foot traffic due to work from home. The cost of all inputs has gone up substantially, and restaurants already have thin margins. I also think that the rise of delivery apps hurt some more community oriented restaurants that can't offer the same value as other places or didn't do the best job transitioning to the new world where everybody orders food on Uber instead of picking it up or getting direct delivery.

I don't feel bad as it's just a shift in where people are spending their money. They're still spending their money. Though when it comes to physical goods, online shopping has replaced a lot...there are still things people want to try...like couches or clothes or cars. Things where fit and comfort are a factor.

But when it comes to services or things like restaurants... I love that there has been a shift.

In the 90s or 2000s there were no options for food or takeout in Orleans. It was whatever was on St Joseph and that's it. You had to go to Little Italy or the market.

Now there's 10 times more options than 20 years ago. It's like the restaurants are going where the people actually live. That's GOOD.

I don't want to have to drive halfway across the city to enjoy something. It's like creating "15 min" cities by having every suburb have all the options...that way you don't need to leave your suburb...you don't need to get on the highway to congest it. Good.

 

[jbeck5]

The cost of living is surreal. There are many things that contribute to this without getting political. But, the amount of taxes and fees being paid has put us in this situation. I feel very sad for the younger generation wishing to buy a home etc. It's not happening without the help of a parent.

Me and my gf bought a house without the help of our parents.

I would say it's difficult for someone who's single and in their 20s...but average earners in their 30s should have no problem partnering up to buy a house unless they're awful with money. We all know the type. Spend spend spend.

 

[jbeck5]

I agree but we didn't get here over night. We had been marching down this road for a very long time. We've become a nation of consumers and not producers and right now there is not enough money to consume.

It's tough...what's the solution? Start manufacturing stuff here, but also, start paying more for it..not sure it's a win. It may be? I'm just curious what the options are in terms of financial directions we can go as a country.

I know electric is the future of some stuff..heck, I was just talking about how I only want to buy electric tools... But I'm also not naive to know that in heavy industry and construction, oil is still very much needed and will be for a long time.

I also know we have some of the largest oil reserves in the world.


Shouldn't we be pumping the shit out of that and refining it and selling it off around the world for mass profits? Why aren't we accelerating this? We have a limited time to use this resource to our advantage before technologies advance...now's the time to make bank with it.

 

[Stylizer1]

I made minimum wage throughout COVID working at sportchek. My paychecks were $1,100. So $2,200 a month.

I had no problem living on my own, buying $100 of weed a month, $100 of alcohol a month..always had people over on Fridays and Saturdays...was fun.

Managed to save too.

$700 on rent.
$100 on weed.
$100 on alcohol.
$120 car insurance.
$100 on gas.
$250 on food.
$50 on phone.
$500 towards investments in TFSA


That's the extent of my expenses...$1420 +500 savings.

$2,200-$1,920= $280.

So if I felt like not doing much, I could invest $780 that month...if not, I could spend like a whole extra $300 on something...maybe save it for a couple months and buy an Xbox...or a new tv...smoke weed every day...get drunk on weekends with friends...drive a fun RWD manual.

You can have a fun life and save money while making minimum wage...so I really agree with the thought that if you know how to live within your means, you can have a fun life.

The biggest issue is rent being 80% of your income. I've seen rooms being rented in a house for under $1,000. At minimum wage, that's only like 40% of your income.

I would never live somewhere that cost over half my income. I would rather go back to my parents in my 30s than pay 80% of my income on rent.

In 1998 I moved in with a friend because If I lived alone 70% for my income would have went to rent. A year later I got my own apartment, worked 2 jobs and made enough that I was only spending maybe 40%. Didn't have cable but back then rabbit ears could pick up about 14 channels (10) good. Had a bike and a bus pass. For 3 years saved up for college instead of taking a lone but did end up borrowing $3000 just for some wiggle room. Minimum wage was $6.85/h. If from my full time job if I made commissions, which was often, It would go up to $11/h. Those 3 years of saving made the difference.

Back then a small 1 bedroom apartment was $570 which would mean before taxes I would have to work 84 hours @ $6.85 to make rent.
That same apartment today is going for $1449 but minimum wage is $17.20. To make rent I would need to work 85 hours before taxes.

Had I just worked that minimum wage job and not earned commissions/ a second job I would have been paying just over 71% of my income to rent. I don't remember what I paid in taxes but out of $1072/month but i guessed $272 so that would leave me with $800. $230 for the rest of the month. Second job would bring in after tax around $300 a month.

 

[Cosmix]

I made minimum wage throughout COVID working at sportchek. My paychecks were $1,100. So $2,200 a month.

I had no problem living on my own, buying $100 of weed a month, $100 of alcohol a month..always had people over on Fridays and Saturdays...was fun.

Managed to save too.

$700 on rent.
$100 on weed.
$100 on alcohol.
$120 car insurance.
$100 on gas.
$250 on food.
$50 on phone.
$500 towards investments in TFSA


That's the extent of my expenses...$1420 +500 savings.

$2,200-$1,920= $280.

So if I felt like not doing much, I could invest $780 that month...if not, I could spend like a whole extra $300 on something...maybe save it for a couple months and buy an Xbox...or a new tv...smoke weed every day...get drunk on weekends with friends...drive a fun RWD manual.

You can have a fun life and save money while making minimum wage...so I really agree with the thought that if you know how to live within your means, you can have a fun life.

The biggest issue is rent being 80% of your income. I've seen rooms being rented in a house for under $1,000. At minimum wage, that's only like 40% of your income.

I would never live somewhere that cost over half my income. I would rather go back to my parents in my 30s than pay 80% of my income on rent.

Sensible.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I agree but we didn't get here over night. We had been marching down this road for a very long time. We've become a nation of consumers and not producers and right now there is not enough money to consume.

We definitely need to make a shift back to producing. We saw during covid how hard it was to get vaccines when the producing countries (rightfully) protected their own people first. Same thing will happen if things go crazy again. We need to be able to produce key goods ourselves - computer chips and components, medicines, food, vehicles for transportation (completely in house and not necessarily cars), military gear, etc.

But, we also have to realize that it won't bring in the jobs of yesterday or be an economic miracle or anything. It's more just a safety net and maintaining the basics of what the county needs.

 

[mysens]

We have one of the richest countries in resources. Everything in the ground is highly desirable worldwide. Plus we have enormous amount of water and forestry. We need to use this to eat away at our massive debt and put money in people’s pockets. Simple plan but we have not done so due to over ruling and regulation. We need to take the handcuffs off. Then we have an economic turnaround and the affordability will return to everyone.

 

[BigRig4]

I made minimum wage throughout COVID working at sportchek. My paychecks were $1,100. So $2,200 a month.

I had no problem living on my own, buying $100 of weed a month, $100 of alcohol a month..always had people over on Fridays and Saturdays...was fun.

Managed to save too.

$700 on rent.
$100 on weed.
$100 on alcohol.
$120 car insurance.
$100 on gas.
$250 on food.
$50 on phone.
$500 towards investments in TFSA


That's the extent of my expenses...$1420 +500 savings.

$2,200-$1,920= $280.

So if I felt like not doing much, I could invest $780 that month...if not, I could spend like a whole extra $300 on something...maybe save it for a couple months and buy an Xbox...or a new tv...smoke weed every day...get drunk on weekends with friends...drive a fun RWD manual.

You can have a fun life and save money while making minimum wage...so I really agree with the thought that if you know how to live within your means, you can have a fun life.

The biggest issue is rent being 80% of your income. I've seen rooms being rented in a house for under $1,000. At minimum wage, that's only like 40% of your income.

I would never live somewhere that cost over half my income. I would rather go back to my parents in my 30s than pay 80% of my income on rent.

Damn where did you find $700 rent lol. That’s a steal!

 

[Stylizer1]

In 1998 I moved in with a friend because If I lived alone 70% for my income would have went to rent. A year later I got my own apartment, worked 2 jobs and made enough that I was only spending maybe 40%. Didn't have cable but back then rabbit ears could pick up about 14 channels (10) good. Had a bike and a bus pass. For 3 years saved up for college instead of taking a lone but did end up borrowing $3000 just for some wiggle room. Minimum wage was $6.85/h. If from my full time job if I made commissions, which was often, It would go up to $11/h. Those 3 years of saving made the difference.

Back then a small 1 bedroom apartment was $570 which would mean before taxes I would have to work 84 hours @ $6.85 to make rent.
That same apartment today is going for $1449 but minimum wage is $17.20. To make rent I would need to work 85 hours before taxes.

Had I just worked that minimum wage job and not earned commissions/ a second job I would have been paying just over 71% of my income to rent. I don't remember what I paid in taxes but out of $1072 i guessed $272

27 years later rent at least in my case is not that crazy. Identical apartment on minimum wage is the same value. Inflation is a bitch.

 

[Stylizer1]

We definitely need to make a shift back to producing. We saw during covid how hard it was to get vaccines when the producing countries (rightfully) protected their own people first. Same thing will happen if things go crazy again. We need to be able to produce key goods ourselves - computer chips and components, medicines, food, vehicles for transportation (completely in house and not necessarily cars), military gear, etc.

But, we also have to realize that it won't bring in the jobs of yesterday or be an economic miracle or anything. It's more just a safety net and maintaining the basics of what the county needs.

We need to refine our own oil and sell our natural gas, mineral, and lumber globally. We need to make deals with European car manufactures like Stellantis to produce a wider range of Cars for our market. I don't understand why Europe get such better fuel efficient cars than we do in Canada. It's time to revisit the safety standards that are outdated that prevent competition. Or we should be building our own car. Our education system needs updating too with a focus on getting kids into trades earlier. They want to get kids ready for engineering and science with physics and chemistry/biology but they don't want to teach them plumbing/wiring/cooking/nursing/building?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We have one of the richest countries in resources. Everything in the ground is highly desirable worldwide. Plus we have enormous amount of water and forestry. We need to use this to eat away at our massive debt and put money in people’s pockets. Simple plan but we have not done so due to over ruling and regulation. We need to take the handcuffs off. Then we have an economic turnaround and the affordability will return to everyone.

Yes, as long as it's still done in a way to cause the least amount of environmental damage possible, and with an eye to renewing those resources (logging and fishing mostly here). Make sure we're not hollowing out the country today and leaving the grandkids with a mess tomorrow.

 

[jbeck5]

Damn where did you find $700 rent lol. That’s a steal!

Townhouse split with friends. Wasn't a steal really lol. Market value.

$2,100 split 3 ways. I think I paid $750 at the end...so $2,250 per month.

Before that, like well before COVID, I lived with a girlfriend at the time where a house was converted to 3 apartments...one per floor. Rented with a gf for $600 a month...or $300 each... actually, I had a car and she didn't so I paid $200 and her $400, and I would pay insurance and gas and drive us both to work.

That's what living within your means is. Still always had automatic savings and grew my investments even though I was making minimum wage and part time hours at that point. Still bought myself little toys or computer games. Bought myself weed for everyday and alcohol for weekends. Still lived a normal life. It just didn't include trips to other countries or trips to other cities for a weekend, or going to restaurants and spending $100 on a date night...didn't include daily coffees from coffee shops. Everything at home with a budget.

I was someone who wanted kids but fully understood I would not be having kids in that financial situation.

Today I see people making minimum wage and deciding to start families and then complaining that things are expensive.

I would never have kids until I had a very safe well paying job with benefits.

But some people don't prioritize being financially comfortable before spending money while others do.

I could never justify spending 2k on a trip while I have under 20k in savings...yet others do that all the time. They go on trips without big savings and then complain. We all know these people. New 60k car...complain about finances...like, have you tried buying a 2008 low mileage Toyota Corolla for like 5 grand? Take care of it and it will last you a decade. Thats $500 a year...but. They would rather pay $500 bi weekly for a new car and complain about the cost.

 

[maclean]

We have one of the richest countries in resources. Everything in the ground is highly desirable worldwide. Plus we have enormous amount of water and forestry. We need to use this to eat away at our massive debt and put money in people’s pockets. Simple plan but we have not done so due to over ruling and regulation. We need to take the handcuffs off. Then we have an economic turnaround and the affordability will return to everyone.

The problem is the people at the top will always siphon off as much of the profit as possible while leaving society to pick up the costs. The rules and regulations attempt to address that, but it's certainly fair to argue they miss the mark. I reject a nostalgia mindset but the fact is that in the past, the big players saw benefit in lifting up society with them, whether it be building housing for their employees, supporting cultural initiatives, etc. Now it's just stuff all the profits offshore and lobby for no rules

 

[jbeck5]

The problem is the people at the top will always siphon off as much of the profit as possible while leaving society to pick up the costs. The rules and regulations attempt to address that, but it's certainly fair to argue they miss the mark. I reject a nostalgia mindset but the fact is that in the past, the big players saw benefit in lifting up society with them, whether it be building housing for their employees, supporting cultural initiatives, etc. Now it's just stuff all the profits offshore and lobby for no rules

And the problem is, the more you tax or prevent people from becoming ultra rich, the more likely they won't come to your country which means you don't get a take in all their money.

It's a lose lose. People leave the country to make more money...so how do we keep them here? Tax them less? But then that's what we're trying to fix is getting some of their tax money lol.

Why would a company set up on the Canadian side of the boarder to serve north america if they can set up on the American side of the boarder and pay less tax and have lower costs associated with running the business.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

And the problem is, the more you tax or prevent people from becoming ultra rich, the more likely they won't come to your country which means you don't get a take in all their money.

It's a lose lose. People leave the country to make more money...so how do we keep them here? Tax them less? But then that's what we're trying to fix is getting some of their tax money lol.

Why would a company set up on the Canadian side of the boarder to serve north america if they can set up on the American side of the boarder and pay less tax and have lower costs associated with running the business.

Kinda hard for them to set up shop somewhere else when the raw materials are right here, though. And lets face it, if we followed the "look out for myself only" rules the rich have, then the price for all our raw goods should nearly double. Heck...maybe we should do that. You want your stuff at a decent price, then you've got to set up shop here. We're not selling across any border without a massive price increase.

Then we'll see some massive howling.

 

[Ralph Malfredsson]

@jbeck5 I can learn a lot from you man - I spend waaaaay too much
very impressive my dude

 

[jbeck5]

Kinda hard for them to set up shop somewhere else when the raw materials are right here, though. And lets face it, if we followed the "look out for myself only" rules the rich have, then the price for all our raw goods should nearly double. Heck...maybe we should do that. You want your stuff at a decent price, then you've got to set up shop here. We're not selling across any border without a massive price increase.

Then we'll see some massive howling.

Sure, but what if it's not raw materials. What if it's high tech...or food...or something.

I feel like all the big food companies are American...everything is owned by Pepsi or coke...both American...everything is owned by Frito lays...American... The list goes on.

How do we make it more likely for a Canadian company to become as big as those...or general Mills...or Kellogg's...insert any huge mega corporation that's known around the world.

Where's our Nike or adidas or under armour or new balance or Reebok, etc?

Where's our Ford or Nissan or hyundai?

I find we rarely have Canadian companies make it big like Americans...according to population, we should have 1/8th of their amount of companies, but we don't.

My guess is it's more profitable to set up a company like that...or a clothing brand or something...or a fast food brand than it is in Canada.

 

[Masked]

Where's our Nike or adidas or under armour or new balance or Reebok, etc?

Lululemon? Arcteryx?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Sure, but what if it's not raw materials. What if it's high tech...or food...or something.

I feel like all the big food companies are American...everything is owned by Pepsi or coke...both American...everything is owned by Frito lays...American... The list goes on.

How do we make it more likely for a Canadian company to become as big as those...or general Mills...or Kellogg's...insert any huge mega corporation that's known around the world.

Where's our Nike or adidas or under armour or new balance or Reebok, etc?

Where's our Ford or Nissan or hyundai?

I find we rarely have Canadian companies make it big like Americans...according to population, we should have 1/8th of their amount of companies, but we don't.

My guess is it's more profitable to set up a company like that...or a clothing brand or something...or a fast food brand than it is in Canada.

Why do we need mega companies though? You get really big companies, and you end up with the choice of Bell or Rogers...and a lousy product. I'd rather have a handful of medium sized companies all working to create better products and innovate and compete...and make a reasonable profit.

 

[Blotto71]

Sure, but what if it's not raw materials. What if it's high tech...or food...or something.

I feel like all the big food companies are American...everything is owned by Pepsi or coke...both American...everything is owned by Frito lays...American... The list goes on.

How do we make it more likely for a Canadian company to become as big as those...or general Mills...or Kellogg's...insert any huge mega corporation that's known around the world.

Where's our Nike or adidas or under armour or new balance or Reebok, etc?

Where's our Ford or Nissan or hyundai?

I find we rarely have Canadian companies make it big like Americans...according to population, we should have 1/8th of their amount of companies, but we don't.

My guess is it's more profitable to set up a company like that...or a clothing brand or something...or a fast food brand than it is in Canada.

I believe that is very much the case - Canada is not friendly to business, and when it has been the government of the day has been accused of lining the pockets of the ultra-wealthy. Our own PM moved his company from Canada to New York just last fall.

 

[jbeck5]

@jbeck5 I can learn a lot from you man - I spend waaaaay too much
very impressive my dude

Honestly...it's just a lifestyle thing...

My at home alone entertainment is pretty simple. I'll buy like Forza Motorsport and play it an hour each day in the evening for like 4 years until the new one comes out...so $80 will provide me with like 1,200 hours. So knowing this, It will be hard to justify spending $100 on anything I don't need or doesn't provide hours and hours of entertainment.. so then I just save money while having fun.

Going to a house party or get together with 6 IPAs for $2.70 a can is a lot better for me than going to a bar and ordering 6 IPAs for $10 per IPA plus tip and stuff.

I always do the fun, but cheaper thing.

 

[maclean]

Sure, but what if it's not raw materials. What if it's high tech...or food...or something.

I feel like all the big food companies are American...everything is owned by Pepsi or coke...both American...everything is owned by Frito lays...American... The list goes on.

How do we make it more likely for a Canadian company to become as big as those...or general Mills...or Kellogg's...insert any huge mega corporation that's known around the world.

Where's our Nike or adidas or under armour or new balance or Reebok, etc?

Where's our Ford or Nissan or hyundai?

I find we rarely have Canadian companies make it big like Americans...according to population, we should have 1/8th of their amount of companies, but we don't.

My guess is it's more profitable to set up a company like that...or a clothing brand or something...or a fast food brand than it is in Canada.

I mean the answer to that question is pretty obvious, the US has the market to fertilise much larger companies and anything profitable Canadian inevitably gets swallowed up (I still sometimes pine over the death of Hostess chips). A different tax scheme wouldn't do anything to change that.

 

[jbeck5]

Lululemon? Arcteryx?

nowhere near as big.

Not even close. To me, that's like comparing metro grocery stores to Wal Mart.

Arcteryx was bought out by salomon in 2001(french) and then sold to amer sports in 2005 (Finnish) and then sold 56% to anta sports (Chinese).

The last time it was Canadian I was 12 and had never heard of it. But I did hear of Nike lol.

Arcteryx has a market cap of 15 billion. Nike is 110 billion.

It's the equivalent of a city having 110 story skyscrapers and we say "we have those too", and point to a 15 story apartment building at Lee's.