OT: Sens Lounge: "Pleeease won't you be.....my neighboµr"

[Masked]

Yes, organic food is the most nutritious and is what the entire food industry should be based on

Organic food is the biggest scam in the grocery store.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Speaking of people on disability, I wonder what happens when/if a certain orange headed guy & his cronies take the Senate & HoR?

Not sure about that specifically, but I do think a lot of people are trying to figure out where the money is coming from if there’s going to be large tax cuts and increased military spending (not to mention a balanced budget in 10 years). When you try to reconcile these numbers, there’s a couple of obvious and logical answers, and that 900 page document has more detail (i.e., specified large cuts to Social Security) than some of these vague & contradictory statements that are made.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Organic food is the biggest scam in the grocery store.

The real issue is that there are no standards.

Organic food is fine; problem is, anyone can say their product is organic and there's no way to be sure when buying.

 

[Stylizer1]

You dare go against the Word of the Rogan?!

Wow

A very stupid post.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

There is a lot to unpack in this rant.



I think everyone knows its not good for them, they just don't know to what extent it is bad for them on a molecular level. Ingredients in food are not class exclusive.



You're skipping a huge portion of food that sits right in the middle of these two extremes. Yes, organic food is the most nutritious and is what the entire food industry should be based on but to say in general eating healthy is out of most peoples price range is a huge over statement. Organic potatoes are healthier than regular potatoes but regular potatoes are way healthier that McCain french fries. For $4-5 you can buy a bad of regular potatoes and get 2-3x the amount out of it than you would a bag of processed potatoes. It's not as convenient to wash, chop, and season 3-4 potatoes than to just open a bag but its healthier and cheaper to spend that extra time.

Everyone is in a time crunch and tired when they get home from work. This isn't exclusive to just poor people, It has more to do with people just not knowing how to cook. Having Kraft dinner and hotdogs was a delicacy as a kid but I didn't have it more than once or twice a month. The key is people learning how to stretch their money and get the biggest bang for their buck. The up front cost is more but over the duration of the ingredient the cost is 3-4 times cheaper.



Jobs you love leave you exhausted at the end of the day too. No one I know plans to make Lasagna from scratch on a Tuesday night after work, even rich people ain't got time for that. Lasagna does not cost 40 dollars to make. It does cost more than 12 though. Now' if you manage to buy the ingredients for Lasagna when the go on sale you could get very close to that 12 dollar range. I mean you are waiting for the lasagna to go on sale, right? You can prepare an average lasagna in 30 minutes, cook for 50 minutes, and let rest for 20. This is a Saturday night meal when you have time.



Again, you are skipping that huge middle area. If your plan is to pack in calories with $5 why not buy a bag of potatoes for instead of A bag of chips that leaves you with only $3?



A family vs someone on disability vs someone who is homeless are very wide gaps in society. The reason health care is out of control is because people are unhealthy. Sugar and hidden sugars are a massive influence on this equation. Seed oils are also very bad for you. Its a decision at the end of the day on what you decide to eat and the amount of time you are willing to sacrifice in order to achieve the best balance of your dietary needs.

There is nothing pretentious about making wise decisions about the food you eat and feed to your family.

What's in the middle of the two extremes are packaged and processed foods. It's boxed lasagna, offbrand chicken fingers, hot dogs, bagged salad and sodium rich dressings. Yes everyone is in a time crunch when they get home from work, but slinging burgers at mcdonalds or mopping up floors is more than just physically taxing. It's exhausting mentally. There is a cost to doing a job you hate to survive. And that adds more stress. In addition most people doing those jobs are working secondary jobs to survive. There is absolutely a difference between someone busting their ass for minimum wage and someone who works for the feds. So yes, it is harder for them to spend a few hours making a healthy meal than it is for someone who works at CRA. Claiming there isn't is absolutely a symptom of privilege.

As far as the cost for lasagna, you want to make enough to feed a family of four? Two pounds of ground beef. You're looking at 15 to 20 bucks. Maybe you get lucky, and get the tubes for a good price. So lets say 10. A can of tomatoes is 2 bucks at least, you need 2. You need a shitload of cheese. Lets add another 8 bucks for one brick of mozzarealla. Cottage cheese or ricotta? There is another 5. Noodles. 2 bucks if you're lucky. Spices, herbs, there is a cost with that. unless you have a cache of it, but that all costs money too. Lets be conservative and guess 6 dollars for 3 herbs and spices you didn't have in stock. Even omitting buying herbs and spices, cheapest ingredients possible, no extras, go with water not stock, no fancy sausage, bacon, sharp parm or red wine for the sauce . . . easily 30 bucks. Easily. For one meal. Its cheaper to go to mcdonalds.

The chips were one example of what to do with the 5 dollars. Sure you can buy a bag of potatoes, do you really think someone who is hungry and poor is going to boil a bunch of potatoes for a few meals? Good luck convincing your kids to plow those down. Especially without that secretly evil ketchup. They probably buy ramen noodles, off brand KD or something instead. Not healthy. That's what they can afford.

And a family on disability is not far removed from someone in a rooming house or living on the streets. Most people in rooming houses are indeed on disability. Subsidized housing has at the very minimum, a 2 year waiting period and is dependent on income. If you're aisngle guy, maybe you pay 300 a month for it. But guess what, you're not waiting the minumum 2 years. You're lucky if you get it for 5. A family of 4 all on disability, their cheque goes up, 4 people on the system, 4 people in one house. Cost goes up. More money coming in, less subsidy. Every cheque is cut. Being poor sucks. Lots of people develop mental illness or addictions and end up down there. That costs money too.

Good luck getting a bachelor for 1000 bucks these days without subsidy. Shithole rooming houses in chinatown are asking for 600-700 bucks for a room.

Clothes, groceries, internet and cell phone bills . . . that takes up the rest of it. And even then people are using subsidized rogers packages for internet, the cheapest phones and plans around. They're getting clothing donations from drop ins, they're accessing the food bank as much as possible. They are trying to survive. Eating healthy is 100 percent a luxury.

Yes eating poorly makes things worse. But its way easier to say eat healthy than it is to do when you're broke. Look up the boots theory.

Complaining about seed oils and "hidden sugars" is something people can afford to do, when they can afford everything else. They can talk to their buddies about it on the golf course and complain about how a can of san marazano tomatoes costs 7 bucks at loblaws and you have to bring your Tesla to a special mechanic in montreal.

Its not pretentious to make wise decisions about what you eat. You should do that. Everyone should if they're able. What's pretentious and is believing that there are no outside factors influencing someone's ability to make those choices, and showing someone an ugly graphic about how there are sugars and seed oils in f***ing heinz ketchup . .. yeah, that's patronizing as f***.

 

[jbeck5]

So I guess you're warning us not to down an entire bottle of Ketchup every day? Thanks for the heads up I guess....

Seriously lol I go through 1-2 of those a week, not each day!






I'm all seriousness, I don't think we go through 2 a year.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

They will make food healthy again.

haha that gave me a good chuckle. Well played

The real issue is that there are no standards.

Organic food is fine; problem is, anyone can say their product is organic and there's no way to be sure when buying.

Doesn't it also require a shitload more land to produce a similar yield to regular produce?

The lack of pesticides and chemicals result in a much lower percentage of foodstuff making it to harvest. I could be wrong though.

 

[Stylizer1]

What's in the middle of the two extremes are packaged and processed foods. It's boxed lasagna, offbrand chicken fingers, hot dogs, bagged salad and sodium rich dressings. Yes everyone is in a time crunch when they get home from work, but slinging burgers at mcdonalds or mopping up floors is more than just physically taxing. It's exhausting mentally. There is a cost to doing a job you hate to survive. And that adds more stress. In addition most people doing those jobs are working secondary jobs to survive. There is absolutely a difference between someone busting their ass for minimum wage and someone who works for the feds. So yes, it is harder for them to spend a few hours making a healthy meal than it is for someone who works at CRA. Claiming there isn't is absolutely a symptom of privilege.

As far as the cost for lasagna, you want to make enough to feed a family of four? Two pounds of ground beef. You're looking at 15 to 20 bucks. Maybe you get lucky, and get the tubes for a good price. So lets say 10. A can of tomatoes is 2 bucks at least, you need 2. You need a shitload of cheese. Lets add another 8 bucks for one brick of mozzarealla. Cottage cheese or ricotta? There is another 5. Noodles. 2 bucks if you're lucky. Spices, herbs, there is a cost with that. unless you have a cache of it, but that all costs money too. Lets be conservative and guess 6 dollars for 3 herbs and spices you didn't have in stock. Even omitting buying herbs and spices, cheapest ingrediants possible, no extras, no fancy sausage or red wine . . . easily 30 bucks. Easily.

The chips were one example of what to do with the 5 dollars. Sure you can buy a bag of potatoes, do you really think someone who is hungry and poor is going to boil a bunch of potatoes for a few meals? They probably buy ramen noodles or something instead. Not healthy. That's what they can afford.

And a family on disability is not far removed from someone in a rooming house. Most people in rooming houses are indeed on disability. Subsidized housing has at the very minimum, a 2 year waiting period and is dependent on income. If you're aisngle guy, maybe you pay 300 a month for it. But guess what, you're not waiting the minumum 2 years. You're lucky if you get it for 5. A family of 4 all on disability, their cheque goes up, 4 people on the system, 4 people in one house. Cost goes up. More money coming in, less subsidy. Every cheque is cut.

Good luck getting a bachelor for 1000 bucks these days without subsidy. Shithole rooming houses in chinatown are asking for 600-700 bucks for a room.

Clothes, groceries, internet and cell phone bills . . . that takes up the rest of it. And even then people are using subsidized rogers packages for internet, the cheapest phones and plans around. They're getting clothing donations from drop ins, they're accessing the food bank as much as possible. They are trying to survive. Eating healthy is 100 percent a luxury.

Yes eating poorly makes things worse. But its way easier to say eat healthy than it is to do when you're broke. Look up the boots theory.

Complaining about seed oils and "hidden sugars" is something people can afford to do, when they can afford everything else. They can talk to their buddies about it on the golf course and complain about how a can of san marazano tomatoes costs 7 bucks at loblaws.

The fact you choose to add herbs and ricotta to a lasagna for a family of 4 says a lot. A 9x13 lasagna does not take 2 pounds of ground beef nor 2 cans of tomatoes to make enough for a family of 4. I just checked the online flyers for Fresh Co. A brick of Cheese is on sale for $5.77. 4 for $5 pasta and sauce. Now if you wanted to make fresh sauce using caned tomatoes then you are looking a $1.50-2. Cottage cheese $4(the typical price). Walmart and No Frills both have ground beef on sale for 3.97 a pound. You only need 1 pound of ground beef. As for herbs you can go to bulk barn and spend 30 cents on enough thyme, basil, and oregano to put in your sauce.

1 brick of Cheese $ 5.77($2.40) you only need half 200 g 1 box of Lasagna $1.25 500g (This sale refers to the 900g bags of pasta so I assume the 500g of lasagna would be included, if it is, boom by a second box for another day if not $3 each?) 1 can of crushed tomatoes 1.75 (average)
1 cottage cheese $4 dollars
1 pound of ground beef $3.97
1 small onion and a head of garlic ~$1
Herbs 50 cents

Total: $21.99
-$2.38 for half the cheese
-$3.75 for the 3 extra sauces of pastas in the deal

Actual Total: $15.86 cents not $30-$40.

With the savings I just showed you could buy some lettuce, a cucumber, and a tomato, and even buy a bottle of organic vinaigrette for a side and you still come under $30. Homemade garlic bread?You could always make fresh pasta too which could save you even more money but the time/cost benefit is not worth it. lol

But really if you are on a budget I would skip the lasagna and just make spaghetti and meatballs, penne with a meat sauce etc. for half the price.

I make lasagna about once ever two months or so. If I'm spending $30-40 to make it each time I would put fresh herbs, ricotta, buy some parmesan to freshly grate over it, and buy nicer canned tomatoes, but I don't, I always go to the grocery store with a budget.

You can chose to eat healthier is my point. By making this lasagna with these ingredients you are probably saving you and your family about 10-15 ingredients from the frozen one which are chemicals. That's eating healthier.

If you wait for things to go on sale like meat and base you dining choices around what you have and not what you want that is where you will save money on food. I have never in my life spent anywhere close to $10lb on ground beef. The organic stuff is regularly priced at $8.

The rest of your post seems a little too personal and not where I am looking to take this conversation. The cost of living in this country sucks and it is due to inflation and the factors which create it.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

The fact you choose to add herbs and ricotta to a lasagna for a family of 4 says a lot. A 9x13 lasagna does not take 2 pounds of ground beef nor 2 cans of tomatoes to make enough for a family of 4. I just checked the online flyers for Fresh Co. A brick of Cheese is on sale for $5.77. 4 for $5 pasta and sauce. Now if you wanted to make fresh sauce using caned tomatoes then you are looking a $1.50-2. Cottage cheese $4(the typical price). Walmart and No Frills both have ground beef on sale for 3.97 a pound. You only need 1 pound of ground beef. As for herbs you can go to bulk barn and spend 30 cents on enough thyme, basil, and oregano to put in your sauce.

1 brick of Cheese $ 5.77($2.40) you only need half 200 g 1 box of Lasagna $1.25 500g (This sale refers to the 900g bags of pasta so I assume the 500g of lasagna would be included, if it is, boom by a second box for another day if not $3 each?) 1 can of crushed tomatoes 1.75 (average)
1 cottage cheese $4 dollars
1 pound of ground beef $3.97
1 small onion and a head of garlic ~$1
Herbs 50 cents

Total: $21.99
-$2.38 for half the cheese
-$3.75 for the 3 extra sauces of pastas in the deal

Actual Total: $15.86 cents not $30-$40.

With the savings I just showed you could buy some lettuce, a cucumber, and a tomato, and even buy a bottle of organic vinaigrette for a side and you still come under $30. Homemade garlic bread?You could always make fresh pasta too which could save you even more money but the time/cost benefit is not worth it. lol

But really if you are on a budget I would skip the lasagna and just make spaghetti and meatballs, penne with a meat sauce etc. for half the price.

I make lasagna about once ever two months or so. If I'm spending $30-40 to make it each time I would put fresh herbs, ricotta, buy some parmesan to freshly grate over it, and buy nicer canned tomatoes, but I don't, I always go to the grocery store with a budget.

You can chose to eat healthier is my point. By making this lasagna with these ingredients you are probably saving you and your family about 10-15 ingredients from the frozen one which are chemicals. That's eating healthier.

If you wait for things to go on sale like meat and base you dining choices around what you have and not what you want that is where you will save money on food. I have never in my life spent anywhere close to $10lb on ground beef. The organic stuff is regularly priced at $8.

The rest of your post seems a little too personal and not where I am looking to take this conversation. The cost of living in this country sucks and it is due to inflation and the factors which create it.

Yeah I fell for the strawman on that one.

If you take nothing else out of this, maybe talking to some less fortunate people will help you see things from their point or view.

Gotta leave the golf course for that though. Choice is yours.

 

[Stylizer1]

Doesn't it also require a shitload more land to produce a similar yield to regular produce?

The lack of pesticides and chemicals result in a much lower percentage of foodstuff making it to harvest. I could be wrong though.

The reason is lack of biodiversity and crop rotation among the crops. If you plant peppers every year in the same spot the soil will be deplete of certain nutrients and before long your crop will suffer. Fertilizers make is so you can keep growing in the same spot. Chemical fertilizers hit the market after World War II, when the government realized that leftover ammonium nitrate, originally manufactured for explosives during the war, could be applied to crops as a nitrogen fertilizer. Pesticides had been initially developed for poisonous gases.


A great documentary on how farms used to work

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watch.plex.tv

 

[Stylizer1]

Yeah I fell for the strawman on that one.

If you take nothing else out of this, maybe talking to some less fortunate people will help you see things from their point or view.

Gotta leave the golf course for that though. Choice is yours.

I don't know if you are trying to feed a family of 4 or were just looking to argue about something bigger but I just showed you how you could make lasagna at half the price you think it is to make.

I grew up less fortunate so I know the value of a deflated dollar more than most. I don't need anecdotal arguments on reality. Like I said it's up to you if you want to eat healthier. That doesn't mean %100 organic it means less synthetic. It's a learning process that you only get better at if you really try. If not, stick with your Kraft dinner & hotdogs.

Golf course or not he was not wrong. You chose to infer a whole lot of other meanings into it to justify a position way more complex than the ideas being presented.