GDT: Sens @ Leafs pre-season - 7PM EST

[HamiltonNHL]

Did you see the winning goal by Ottawa?



Rookie Dman Carter Yakemchuk lights the lamp in OT, as Marner watches with limited effort.

Marner can’t put effort into his first game back ….

This won’t end well. No matter how it plays out.

 

[Antropovsky]

Every team gets too cute at times. Every team gets not cute enough at times. Every team goes through all of these things, and has things to work on.
No team is perfect in game 7 of the Stanley Cup, let alone game 1 of preseason.

You must have learned how to make excuses at the same place as Marner. Marner "It's the hardest trophy to win for a reason".

If this was true Trotz and Berube wouldn't bother even saying it. Ovechkin even talked about it years ago:

Alex Ovechkin has some advice for the Toronto Maple Leafs if they want to win a Stanley Cup.

Play differently.

"They're still a young group of guys. Hopefully they're going to learn, but ... it's up to them how they want to do it," Ovechkin told reporters prior to his team's game in Toronto against the Leafs on Tuesday. "If they want to play for yourself or if they want to win a Stanley Cup, they'll have to play differently.

 

[notbias]

You must have learned how to make excuses at the same place as Marner. Marner "It's the hardest trophy to win for a reason".

If this was true Trotz and Berube wouldn't bother even saying it. Ovechkin even talked about it years ago:

Sucks that Ovi only wanted to win one year.

I hate these stupid quotes by players about what it takes to win... why don't they just win every year if that's all it takes?

 

[Sypher04]

I get why people might think or wish that effort/compete level is the same regardless of regular season, playoffs and preseason. And with the first two it absolutely should, he or higher in playoffs, but the preseason just is not the same.

It’s a very rare player that is going give you their best in the preseason if they are secure in their spot on the team and frankly you don’t need it right now.

Preseason results are entirely meaningless and veteran players are going through the motions 1) until they start getting paid 2) to avoid injury 3) until the results actually matter.

 

[inthe6ix]

I get why people might think or wish that effort/compete level is the same regardless of regular season, playoffs and preseason. And with the first two it absolutely should, he or higher in playoffs, but the preseason just is not the same.

It’s a very rare player that is going give you their best in the preseason if they are secure in their spot on the team and frankly you don’t need it right now.

Preseason results are entirely meaningless and veteran players are going through the motions 1) until they start getting paid 2) to avoid injury 3) until the results actually matter.

Yup, same case year after year.

Vets don't give a damn until about the last few games of the pre season when the opening night rosters start taking shape.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Sucks that Ovi only wanted to win one year.

I hate these stupid quotes by players about what it takes to win... why don't they just win every year if that's all it takes?

Not to mention it’s clearly Ovy just stirring the pot.

 

[rumman]

I get why people might think or wish that effort/compete level is the same regardless of regular season, playoffs and preseason. And with the first two it absolutely should, he or higher in playoffs, but the preseason just is not the same.

It’s a very rare player that is going give you their best in the preseason if they are secure in their spot on the team and frankly you don’t need it right now.

Preseason results are entirely meaningless and veteran players are going through the motions 1) until they start getting paid 2) to avoid injury 3) until the results actually matter.

I’d say with a new coach every player would want to make a good impression, at least the one’s who care I would imagine……..

 

[ACC1224]

Imagine thinking Ovechkin is referring to a pre-season game.

The stupidity is overflowing today.

 

[Antropovsky]

Sucks that Ovi only wanted to win one year.

I hate these stupid quotes by players about what it takes to win... why don't they just win every year if that's all it takes?

Ovechkin made it past the first round 7 of his first 10 playoffs. Marner and co, have made it past the first round 1/8.

Apples to oranges.

Imagine thinking Ovechkin is referring to a pre-season game.

The stupidity is overflowing today.

Stupid is a die hard Marner fan criticizing Nylander for not playing physical.

Yet you did it lol.

 

[Leviathan899]

It was an opportunity for the team to reintroduce itself and show a new side. The main cast of characters is the same but maybe there’s a new sheriff in town, a new captain and outlook, new swagger, change from within apparent.

But then you get a largely signature flat and inconsistent effort, a blast of star power and a sloppy finish. Basically the quasi half effort for any non playoff opponent on a random weeknight.

It’s like guys, come on.

This is it imo. Just customary at this point, and of course it’s pre season and the games don’t count against the standings, but culture runs deep and teams can’t just turn it on once the season starts. Bourne said it best before the game, this is a fresh start and it all starts tonight. Go out and win hockey games. They looked disinterested and flat for the first 40 minutes. If you were new to hockey you’d think Matthews, Marner, nylander and Rielly were recently drafted players who will be going back to their respective junior teams this week, not some of the most highly paid players in the league. Sure they have the ability to score in bunches and can erase a lead in no time, but it’s not sustainable and it’s not what contending teams do. Sometimes sure; but it’s become the norm here.

 

[notbias]

Ovechkin made it past the first round 7 of his first 10 playoffs. Marner and co, have made it past the first round 1/8.

Apples to oranges.

Can you comment on when he apparently changed his game?

He is discussing how he learned to win by not focusing on hockey as an individual...

Since then he exited the first round once.

At least try to follow along.

 

[Leviathan899]

You can be a slower team, but you have to play smart positionally a know how to ground and pound a faster one or clog it up to your advantage and live on some turnovers. If it’s just free flowing hockey and you’re slow to everything then it’s going to be problems.

A lot of it isn’t even skating speed, it’s making crisp and clean passes, connecting on them through the neutral zone and attacking the zone with possession. We looked incredibly slow last night for the first two periods because we couldn’t string together passes, the outlets from the D to the F’s were off the mark. We started to play with more pace when we were supporting the puck and making clean plays, not necessarily skating faster.

 

[Mess]

What does that have to with my claim the Marner created the most scoring chances for the Leafs? I saw three guys on that goal with limited efforts.

I'm talking end results in terms of wins and losses which matter and and you're talking about in game subjective situations ..

Matthews scored, Willy scored, Tavares actually set up 3 goals recording 3 assists. Those 3 all impacted the outcome of the game. Marner is earning participation awards and has Matthew Knies to thank for his only statistical contribution.

Marner's 15% lazy effort with 1 hand on his stick and in OT 18 year old rookie scored the winner determined who won and who lost.

I can guarantee you coach Berube is not putting Marner on any pedestal for that performance for a guy seeking to be paid top 5 in the NHL.

 

[Leviathan899]

People can follow the team how they choose and have different standards for what they deem to be acceptable. Some people follow along like analytics specialists, some want to hero worship their favorite players, some play armchair GM or shadow coach, and probably a mix of all the above. There’s no right or wrong way to engage in the material.

But from my perspective, the business as usual crowd has always been on the wrong side of the evaluation. Meaningless preseason is a step away from a meaningless opening night to a meaningless regular season. We don’t win the Presidents Trophy because it’s meaningless. We don’t win the conference because we’re saving it up for later. We don’t want our guys over exerting for a scoring title cause it’s meaningless. We won’t win the division because it’s meaningless. Then when it’s suddenly meaningful, well guess what, you’re still the second hardest working, second most prepared team on the ice, and have a great summer. 8 years in a row.

Bourne had a good quote last night, something like he keeps hearing how the Leafs are a great regular season team. Yet we haven’t once won the Atlantic division outright or won the presidents trophy. So merely a “good” regular season team, nothing extraordinary would be more apt.

 

[Antropovsky]

Can you comment on when he apparently changed his game?

He is discussing how he learned to win by not focusing on hockey as an individual...

Since then he exited the first round once.

At least try to follow along.

Physical beast, Ovechkin has struggled to get past the first round since he turned 34.... wow! Who would've thought that physical players begin slow down with age and on aged teams?

Ovechkin in his prime on a good team usually got past the first round, Marner in his prime on an good team usually does not get past the first round.

Try to keep up.

 

[notbias]

Physical beast, Ovechkin has struggled to get past the first round since he turned 34.... wow! Who would've thought that physical players begin slow down with age and on aged teams?

Ovechkin in his prime on a good team usually got past the first round, Marner in his prime on an good team usually does not get past the first round.

Try to keep up.

We aren't discussing age or ability, please stay on topic.

He claimed he changed his game to win, it doesn't explain all the early exits.

This is like talking to a wall.

 

[weems]

He was always projected to be a decent, reliable, bottom pair D and seems to be growing into that role.

I think the hope was definitely more than just a bottom pairing guy.

This is a very big season for him.

 

[notbias]

Bourne had a good quote last night, something like he keeps hearing how the Leafs are a great regular season team. Yet we haven’t once won the Atlantic division outright or won the presidents trophy. So merely a “good” regular season team, nothing extraordinary would be more apt.

Division they would have won if they were in them:

2024 - None
2023 - Central
2022 - Pacific
2021 - None
2020 - None

4th in the league over this time frame

Things change depending on the division, so the above is not perfect, but we play in the hardest division in the NHL, it depends on what you consider great, but they have some personal achievements as well as some high finishes.

Their 111 point season (2023) they were catching Boston's 135 points (1st all-time)
Their 115 point season (2022) they were catching Florida's 122 points (8th all-time)

The 115 point season is 33rd all-time.
The 111 point season is 68th all-time.

"more games, loser points", I know, just pointing this out.

 

[Nineteen67]

I think the hope was definitely more than just a bottom pairing guy.

This is a very big season for him.

There’s always hope, but the general thought when he was drafted that he’d a reliable bottom pair D. I think he’s progressing nicely.

 

[Leviathan899]

Division they would have won if they were in them:

2024 - None
2023 - Central
2022 - Pacific
2021 - None
2020 - None

4th in the league over this time frame

Things change depending on the division, so the above is not perfect, but we play in the hardest division in the NHL, it depends on what you consider great, but they have some personal achievements as well as some high finishes.

Their 111 point season (2023) they were catching Boston's 135 points (1st all-time)
Their 115 point season (2022) they were catching Florida's 122 points (8th all-time)

The 115 point season is 33rd all-time.
The 111 point season is 68th all-time.

"more games, loser points", I know, just pointing this out.

Fair points and yes those seasons could be considered great, both excellent seasons. Ideally I’m just craving a season where we’re the top team in the division and go into the playoffs with a lot of confidence.

 

[notbias]

I'm talking end results in terms of wins and losses which matter and and you're talking about in game subjective situations ..

Matthews scored, Willy scored, Tavares actually set up 3 goals recording 3 assists. Those 3 all impacted the outcome of the game. Marner is earning participation awards and has Matthew Knies to thank for his only statistical contribution.

Marner's 15% lazy effort with 1 hand on his stick and in OT 18 year old rookie scored the winner determined who won and who lost.

I can guarantee you coach Berube is not putting Marner on any pedestal for that performance for a guy seeking to be paid top 5 in the NHL.

View attachment 909020

Incase anyone wants to see all the hard work Knies did that Marner should be thanking him for.

 

[Menzinger]

Obviously not. but you’re kidding yourself if you think Colorado had those habits game 1. If they did they wouldn’t have gone 2-5-0 right?

Like I said I watched every game yesterday and vets on really good teams were literally out there making the same low effort players as the leafs. No one was trying to get hurt. It’s lunacy to expect the top guys to be crashing hard on the forecheck game 1.

I understand you’re trying to make it a leaf thing right now because that’s what the leafs have consistently shown us. No one is denying that. But I think you need to give them more than a game with a new coach before going crazy on this. If you wanna call it an excuse so be it. But I’ve coached (not hockey) at a really high level for a long time now, coming into a new program and trying to establish new systems, routines takes a while. Based on my experience, Berube’s roster choice was intentional to see exactly which habits need weeding out.

Another way to look at things, is the league didn't think the core players around the league needed a few games to warm up there would be no preseason and it would just be a rookie tournament.

Expecting guys to be flying out there with zero rust from the opening second just isn't being realistic

 

[Action Jackson]

Marner can’t put effort into his first game back ….

This won’t end well. No matter how it plays out.

this kid is so dog shit defensively i don't know why people think hes a good all-around player. Completely useless on the back side of the ice day in day out. Even on the PK his only good attribute is his speed, his stick work and positioning is dog shit

 

[Action Jackson]

I know you have an irrational hate for Mitch Marner but have to be f***ing blind to not see that that goal is Jake McCabe's fault he's the one that got deeked.

It's game 1 of pre season so it doesn't mean a damn thing.

But if you insist on blaming somebody at least blame the right person which in this case is Jake McCabe

Geez have you never played hockey in your life? It was a 2 on 1 with no trailer

McCabe needs to pressure the puck, Marner needs to be the back-up defender if it doesn't work out

Wtf is marner doing? Waiting for an imaginary sens player to be there for a one timer? Moronic defense. May as well have been a ghost on that play, then mccabe wouldn't be made to look stupid pressuring the puck thinking he has back up

 

[Antropovsky]

We aren't discussing age or ability, please stay on topic.

He claimed he changed his game to win, it doesn't explain all the early exits.

This is like talking to a wall.

Age or ability doesnt matter? You are comparing a 27 year olds recent stats to a 39 year olds lol.

Lets gather up Forsberg, Sakic, Roy, Hasek and Gretzky, Orr, Lidstrom and build a perennial champion. Apparently age doesnt effect abilities!