Pre-Game Talk: Sens @ Kings Jan. 16

[Kyle Johansen]

FQL nailed it.

Wier is good only when sheltered and so is basically anyone. Ceci is given like some of our toughest minutes yet he still looks better than Wier by a long shot.

If we gonna throw Ceci to the wolves we might as well give him a partner who is good at being in that role too. I can't believe you said 5 needs 46 to be good though, LOL.

Ceci's play next to Cowen, Borowiecki, or Methot takes a nosedive compared to his play with Wiercioch, dating back to last season. I disagree that Ceci has been better than Wier by a long shot. They have both had ups and downs. Thankfully both are playing better now than they were at the beginning of the year.

 

[Uchiha]

I'll take Ceci over Wiercioch just because he doesn't get thrown around like a piece of trash. Seriously, Wiercioch is 6'6 and 190 pounds lmao

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Ceci's play next to Cowen, Borowiecki, or Methot takes a nosedive compared to his play with Wiercioch, dating back to last season. I disagree that Ceci has been better than Wier by a long shot. They have both had ups and downs. Thankfully both are playing better now than they were at the beginning of the year.

I think you're vastly under selling just how bad Wiercioch has been for the majority of this season. He's been better as you say for a couple weeks but he was a disaster earlier.

Ceci played some of his best hockey this season alongside Cowen oddly enough.

 

[Kyle Johansen]

I think you're vastly under selling just how bad Wiercioch has been for the majority of this season. He's been better as you say for a couple weeks but he was a disaster earlier.

Ceci played some of his best hockey this season alongside Cowen oddly enough.

Ceci has under a 40% CF when he's not with Wiercioch. Wiercioch has over 50% when he's not with Ceci. (They are around 46% when together). I like Ceci, and I'd definitely take him over Wiercioch if I was forced to make a choice, but he's not a top 4 quality defender right now. Maybe some day with some more experience and confidence in his own abilities (for instance, I'd like to see him become a more offensive-minded player like he was in junior).

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Ceci has under a 40% CF when he's not with Wiercioch. Wiercioch has over 50% when he's not with Ceci. (They are around 46% when together). I like Ceci, and I'd definitely take him over Wiercioch if I was forced to make a choice, but he's not a top 4 quality defender right now. Maybe some day with some more experience and confidence in his own abilities (for instance, I'd like to see him become a more offensive-minded player like he was in junior).

I like advanced numbers and all that, but there's so much more that tell the story.

The other thing to consider here is that when Wiercioch isn't with Ceci, he's on the bottom pairing and playing more sheltered minutes. Of course he and his line mates are going to have more favorable numbers in those instances while Ceci has to play against top 6 forwards. Ceci might get beat more often but Wiercioch makes sooooooooo many more mistakes and weak plays. I've been very happy with him of late though. His gaffs are palatable when he's moving the puck well and generally playing in the other team's zone.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

This is where I post making fun of the people who said Anderson sucks earlier.

Enlighten me more with your hockey knowledge Anderson haters, I can't wait to see what you say next. I'm SO on the edge of my seat. Tell me again how good Lehner is.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

This is where I post making fun of the people who said Anderson sucks earlier.

Enlighten me more with your hockey knowledge Anderson haters, I can't wait to see what you say next. I'm SO on the edge of my seat. Tell me again how good Lehner is.

I mean, do you really even need them to explain themselves? Anyone who can't see Andy's value to this team is clearly out to lunch.

We are so lucky to have him and Hammond, to a lesser degree. Too bad he has such an inadequate defense playing for him.

 

[Micklebot]

I like advanced numbers and all that, but there's so much more that tell the story.

The other thing to consider here is that when Wiercioch isn't with Ceci, he's on the bottom pairing and playing more sheltered minutes. Of course he and his line mates are going to have more favorable numbers in those instances while Ceci has to play against top 6 forwards. Ceci might get beat more often but Wiercioch makes sooooooooo many more mistakes and weak plays. I've been very happy with him of late though. His gaffs are palatable when he's moving the puck well and generally playing in the other team's zone.

Ceci has been better of late, but early this year (much like Wier) he was terrible. His mistakes weren't as glaring, and as such he didn't get the same criticism, but the guy gave up the puck like candy on Halloween. Every time a fore-checker got on him, 50/50 battle or even when he seemed to be in no trouble at all it seemed like they'd just take the puck off his stick.

Don't fool yourself, both guys had rough starts even if Ceci's was less apparent.

 

[Viletho]

Stone and Turris are minus player again. I know injury and all. But they are -14 and -11 this season. By far are worst +/- player.

They have to start playing better overall.

 

[Back in Black]

Anyone who can't see Andy's value to this team is clearly out to lunch.

I have to laugh at people who wanted him traded now because he is "getting oldâ€. Get something for him while he’s worth it. WTF???? Trade away something most teams need to get something else????

Cause he will be old someday??????

 

[Micklebot]

I have to laugh at people who wanted him traded now because he is "getting oldâ€. Get something for him while he’s worth it. WTF???? Trade away something most teams need to get something else????

Cause he will be old someday??????

Goaltenders are traditionally undervalued on the trade market, particular older ones that aren't seen as elite.

Trading Andy would likely result in a disappointing return; think Spezza return only far worse.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I think you're vastly under selling just how bad Wiercioch has been for the majority of this season. He's been better as you say for a couple weeks but he was a disaster earlier.

Ceci played some of his best hockey this season alongside Cowen oddly enough.

Not surprising actually, since Cowen provides Ceci with a physical presence and allows him to be what he has always been, a puck mover.

Ceci has good size but doesn't play the physical game well, so partnering him with Wiercoich who get blown over by the wind forces Ceci to play a game he really isn't at his best with.

Fact is Cameron has tried just about every combination lately and the only partner Wiercoich looks serviceable with is Ceci.

IMO the problem is Cameron won't sit PW and play both Wideman and Claesson allowing Ceci to have Methot as a consistent partner.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Stone and Turris are minus player again. I know injury and all. But they are -14 and -11 this season. By far are worst +/- player.

They have to start playing better overall.

THIS!!

Turris has been next to useless for over a month and if his play is due to injury then rest him, let him heal because his current play is of no benefit to the team.

Cameron has given him Ryan, Stone, Hoffman and Michalek as linemates, plus top PP time to no avail.

Stone on the other hand seems to think he is a star, seldom using his physical size and unless the Sens have puck possession, he coasts.

His lack of effort on the LA 3rd goal was inexcusable and Cameron should have sent a clear message by sitting him for the rest of the game.

 

[HispanicAtTheDisco]

Not surprising actually, since Cowen provides Ceci with a physical presence and allows him to be what he has always been, a puck mover.

Ceci has good size but doesn't play the physical game well, so partnering him with Wiercoich who get blown over by the wind forces Ceci to play a game he really isn't at his best with.

Fact is Cameron has tried just about every combination lately and the only partner Wiercoich looks serviceable with is Ceci.

IMO the problem is Cameron won't sit PW and play both Wideman and Claesson allowing Ceci to have Methot as a consistent partner.

I think Wiercioch has looked pretty good with Karlsson, but then again pretty much anyone would.

Wiercioch-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Claesson-Wideman

I'm pretty sure Karlsson and Wier have the highest corsi of any pair, Ceci gets to play with a good vet, and Claesson and Wideman have played together in the minors so we reunite that.

 

[Studzle]

THIS!!

Turris has been next to useless for over a month and if his play is due to injury then rest him, let him heal because his current play is of no benefit to the team.

Cameron has given him Ryan, Stone, Hoffman and Michalek as linemates, plus top PP time to no avail.

Stone on the other hand seems to think he is a star, seldom using his physical size and unless the Sens have puck possession, he coasts.

His lack of effort on the LA 3rd goal was inexcusable and Cameron should have sent a clear message by sitting him for the rest of the game.

I think that it was after that hit where we all thought he was done for the season where his production started to tail off. The best move right now is to sit him until he really feels better because he does not look right out there.

Full respect to turris for trying to battle through it but takes a few games off if you need to man.

 

[J0sh]

I think Wiercioch has looked pretty good with Karlsson, but then again pretty much anyone would.

Wiercioch-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Claesson-Wideman

I'm pretty sure Karlsson and Wier have the highest corsi of any pair, Ceci gets to play with a good vet, and Claesson and Wideman have played together in the minors so we reunite that.

I'd love them to try this: does Claesson pk tho? He would need to.

 

[starling]

I'd love them to try this: does Claesson pk tho? He would need to.

He has 8 shorthanded points in his AHL career. So yeah, a lot.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Hands up if you turned the game off in disgust after the 3-1 goal?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I think Wiercioch has looked pretty good with Karlsson, but then again pretty much anyone would.

Wiercioch-Karlsson
Methot-Ceci
Claesson-Wideman

I'm pretty sure Karlsson and Wier have the highest corsi of any pair, Ceci gets to play with a good vet, and Claesson and Wideman have played together in the minors so we reunite that.

PW needs to be allowed to develop somewhere else, as scary as it might seem I would rather Boro than PW at this point.

Claesson-Karlsson
Methot- Ceci
Boro-Wideman

My reasoning is simple, PW is supposed to be an offensive, puck moving Dman.

Yet he has produced 3 assists in 37 games, he is slow footed, slow making decisions with the puck and he is just about useless in the Dzone gaining puck possession or winning position battles in net coverage.

IMO PW has no future in the NHL as a top 4 defender, let alone top pairing minutes.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Stone and Turris are minus player again. I know injury and all. But they are -14 and -11 this season. By far are worst +/- player.

They have to start playing better overall.

THIS!!

Turris has been next to useless for over a month and if his play is due to injury then rest him, let him heal because his current play is of no benefit to the team.

Cameron has given him Ryan, Stone, Hoffman and Michalek as linemates, plus top PP time to no avail.

Stone on the other hand seems to think he is a star, seldom using his physical size and unless the Sens have puck possession, he coasts.

His lack of effort on the LA 3rd goal was inexcusable and Cameron should have sent a clear message by sitting him for the rest of the game.

Stone still has been a monster even though mistake here and there, he just has been getting unlucky scoring wise too. Turris on the other hand is not producing much at all and needs to step up. Points will come for Stone but Turris needs to get back into rhythm again.

 

[Cosmix]

I mean, do you really even need them to explain themselves? Anyone who can't see Andy's value to this team is clearly out to lunch.

We are so lucky to have him and Hammond, to a lesser degree. Too bad he has such an inadequate defense playing for him.

I agree. Anderson is a very good goaltender and given the past goaltenders this team has had I am very thankful for having him in the net since he arrived in Ottawa. Hammond has filled in nicely too, obviously last year, and is a competent backup, perhaps more than just that.

I always felt that Lehner was not quite good enough but had promise. I hope Lehner does well in Buffalo, except of course when the Senators play them.

 

[Cosmix]

Hands up if you turned the game off in disgust after the 3-1 goal?

I used very colorful language instead, but hung in there, lacking anything better to do, and was totally surprised and elated at the turn-around and win.

 

[Cosmix]

PW needs to be allowed to develop somewhere else, as scary as it might seem I would rather Boro than PW at this point.

Claesson-Karlsson
Methot- Ceci
Boro-Wideman

My reasoning is simple, PW is supposed to be an offensive, puck moving Dman.

Yet he has produced 3 assists in 37 games, he is slow footed, slow making decisions with the puck and he is just about useless in the Dzone gaining puck possession or winning position battles in net coverage.

IMO PW has no future in the NHL as a top 4 defender, let alone top pairing minutes.

I have not yet given up on him but you make very valid points regarding his play, IMO.

However, I don't think Claesson or Wideman are the answer either, so I trudge on with what we do have and hope for something better to arrive soon.

 

[Scrub*]

How does Weircoch make as much as he does?

Gryba 41 Gp 0 goals 4 assists

Weircoch 37 GP 0 goals 3 assists

 

[Cosmix]

Goaltenders are traditionally undervalued on the trade market, particular older ones that aren't seen as elite.

Trading Andy would likely result in a disappointing return; think Spezza return only far worse.

I think Anderson could play well almost until he is 46 like John Kiszkan did!