News Article: Sens 25 top players (25th anniversary edition)

[Sens Rule]

Really? "ALL-TIME BEST"? I'm not misunderstanding those words. Best to ever play with the sens?

Heatley-Spezza-alfredsson
Bondra-Yashin-Kovalev
Hossa-demitra-Stone
Hoffman-straka-havlat

Just missed the cut: turris, bonk, stillman, McEachern, Smolinski, Prospal, white, foligno, vermette, fisher, Juneau, arvedson, schaefer, kelly, michalek, macarthur

Karlsson-chara
redden-gonchar
Duschesne-Phaneuf

Just missed the cut: Phillips, volchenkov, Kuba, Methot, mciver, york, karvchuk

Hasek
Barrasso

Just missed the cut: Tuggnutt, rhodes, lalime, anderson

That would be my opinion of the "best all time roster collected of guys who played for the sens"

Then if you care about time with the sens, you can take out hasek and barrasso and replace them with anderson and lalime.
Take out no one on D because they all played the better part of multiple seasons. Maybe phaneuf for phillips but not for long once phaneuf plays more as hes the higher ranking defenseman all time)
Take out bondra, demitra, straka and replace them with 3 of turris,bonk, smolinski, stillman, prospal or mceachern.

It is the best in a Senators uniform. Not best player that ever played that happened to get picked up at the trade deadline when he was at the end of his career and played 20 games here. Marty St. Louis was a walk on at Sens camp. We never signed him but he was on the ice in a Sens practice jersey for some early camp scrimages... should he be one of the greatest Senators?

 

[Sens Rule]

Agreed with JBeck. It should be a measure of accumulation of performance over the years, some sort of career WAR if you will. This will help eliminate superstars who didn't play long enough with the Sens (Hasek), and players who just benefited from longevity with the team (Phillips, Kelly). In that case, these are some of the obvious ones in my book:

Alfie, Yashin, Karlsson, Spezza, Redden, Chara, Stone, Hossa, Lalime, Anderson, Heatley, Bonk, Turris, Methot, Havlat, Fisher.

There is no way to say Methot was a better Sen then Phillips. That is absurd. Peak Phillips when this franchise was at it's greatest was at least as good if not better then Methot has ever been here.

Remember Phillips/Chara and then Phillips/Volchenkov? From like 2003-2008 Phillips is part of an elite shut down pairing in the NHL and for one of the best teams in the league. After Chara left Phillips/Volchenkov was moreso the number 1 line at ES when we went to the Cup final then even Redden's pairing was.

I am getting sick of fans here that just trash and hate Neil and Philips like they are utter garbage players just because they declined in their final years here. Get a freaking grip.

Methot has 16 playoff games for the Sens. Phillips has 114 playoff games.

I love Methot but he has not been in Ottawa long enough to be on the all-time team.

The guy most deserving that was left off the list is probably McEachern. Not sure I take anyone on the team off for him. But he kinda also represents the early Martin era when we were starting to become a great team. Hoffman and Stone just don't have long enough careers here yet. In time they will push out Vermette and Kelly probably.

 

[Stylizer1]

Who would be our coach and GM?

 

[Sens Rule]

Who would be our coach and GM?

Murray coach. GM is tougher. Gauthier turned us from a joke into a really good young team. Johnston comtinued very astute management. Muckler as much as he is panned went all in and gave us swagger and brought in Hasek and Heatley and put the cherry on the top of a great team to become the ridiculously good 05/06 and 06/07. Murray was GM the longest and is the face of the team and he rebuilt us from having no prospects to today. But he was flawed.

I chose to pick the best 2 coach/managers and just cheat and go Jacques Martin and Bryan Murray. GM is just to hard to choose and I kinda don't want to pick Murray as GM but no one GM was that much better. Because Gauthier and Johnston moved on after only about 2 years each.

 

[Stylizer1]

Murray coach. GM is tougher. Gauthier turned us from a joke into a really good young team. Johnston comtinued very astute management. Muckler as much as he is panned went all in and gave us swagger and brought in Hasek and Heatley and put the cherry on the top of a great team to become the ridiculously good 05/06 and 06/07. Murray was GM the longest and is the face of the team and he rebuilt us from having no prospects to today. But he was flawed.

I chose to pick the best 2 coach/managers and just cheat and go Jacques Martin and Bryan Murray. GM is just to hard to choose and I kinda don't want to pick Murray as GM but no one GM was that much better. Because Gauthier and Johnston moved on after only about 2 years each.

I would say Martin . Murray as far as coaching is concerned inherited a stacked team

 

[DrEasy]

I thought about it some more, and I have a tentative career WAR team, complete with trios and pairings that have shown chemistry together when possible:

Alfie - Spezza - Heatley <- Pizza line
McEachern - Yashin - Havlat <- didn't know where to put Havlat, I'm sure he'll gel with the other two guys
Hoffman - Turris - Stone <- the taxing line, this generation's top forwards
Fisher - Bonk - Hossa <- no room for Arvedson, Fisher takes his spot
Neil <- play him against the Leafs, teach Tucker a lesson

Methot - Karlsson <- King Karlsson paired with the King of +/-
Redden - Chara <- the beauty and the beast
Phillips - Volchenkov <- just for you, Sens Rule! (Phillips does deserve to be in the top 6)

Anderson
Lalime

Black aces: Vermette, Prospal, Duchesne?, Arvedson or Salo?

 

[DrEasy]

GM: Marshall Johnston

Coach: Bryan Murray
Assistant coaches: Jacques Martin, Roger Neilson, Perry Pearn

 

[Senacus Maximus]

Good list. Ignore the confused haters.

Neil has contributed a lot to this team.

 

[DanyHeatley]

Really? "ALL-TIME BEST"? I'm not misunderstanding those words. Best to ever play with the sens?

Heatley-Spezza-alfredsson
Bondra-Yashin-Kovalev
Hossa-demitra-Stone
Hoffman-straka-havlat

Just missed the cut: turris, bonk, stillman, McEachern, Smolinski, Prospal, white, foligno, vermette, fisher, Juneau, arvedson, schaefer, kelly, michalek, macarthur

Karlsson-chara
redden-gonchar
Duschesne-Phaneuf

Just missed the cut: Phillips, volchenkov, Kuba, Methot, mciver, york, karvchuk

Hasek
Barrasso

Just missed the cut: Tuggnutt, rhodes, lalime, anderson

That would be my opinion of the "best all time roster collected of guys who played for the sens"

Then if you care about time with the sens, you can take out hasek and barrasso and replace them with anderson and lalime.
Take out no one on D because they all played the better part of multiple seasons. Maybe phaneuf for phillips but not for long once phaneuf plays more as hes the higher ranking defenseman all time)
Take out bondra, demitra, straka and replace them with 3 of turris,bonk, smolinski, stillman, prospal or mceachern.

Are we talking best player ever(career wise and prime) to play for the SENS or the type of player they were when THEY WERE WITH THE SENS ?

Cause I would easily take out Kovalev, Duchense, Phaneuf and Gonchar
And add in Phillips and Volchenkov, there no denying this pair was our best shut down pair... ever
Also add in Fish and Turris/bonk

 

[Hutz]

Phillips/Volchenkov was straight up our #1 pairing when we went to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Phillips is undoubtably one of the top 6 defencemen in franchise history. There is no doubt or argument.

Thank you. I can believe I just read anyone seriously suggesting Phillips doesn't belong on the list. He's easily in the top 4. I guess people forget just how effective he was in his prime.

There is no way to say Methot was a better Sen then Phillips. That is absurd. Peak Phillips when this franchise was at it's greatest was at least as good if not better then Methot has ever been here.

Remember Phillips/Chara and then Phillips/Volchenkov? From like 2003-2008 Phillips is part of an elite shut down pairing in the NHL and for one of the best teams in the league. After Chara left Phillips/Volchenkov was moreso the number 1 line at ES when we went to the Cup final then even Redden's pairing was.

I am getting sick of fans here that just trash and hate Neil and Philips like they are utter garbage players just because they declined in their final years here. Get a freaking grip.

Methot has 16 playoff games for the Sens. Phillips has 114 playoff games.

I love Methot but he has not been in Ottawa long enough to be on the all-time team.

The guy most deserving that was left off the list is probably McEachern. Not sure I take anyone on the team off for him. But he kinda also represents the early Martin era when we were starting to become a great team. Hoffman and Stone just don't have long enough careers here yet. In time they will push out Vermette and Kelly probably.

Again, spot on.

I would probably have left Neil and Kelly off the list in favour of higher calibre players like maybe Shawn McEachern and Mark Stone, but there's no denying they've both given a lot to the team, especially Chris Neil. I think this list is really good. The reason it's skewed to the early-mid 2000s is because those teams were great. Just as a side note only 4 of those players didn't play with us either the season before or after the year lockout.

I mended fences with Yashin a long time ago, this list made me realize the same is happening with Heatley. I was worried he was going to be left off this list and was happy to see he was included - as he should be. I like that he was relegated to the bottom row, though

 

[Back in Black]

I would say Martin . Murray as far as coaching is concerned inherited a stacked team

Totally agree with this coaching decision. Jacques Martin moulded that playoff team.

Anyone following this team since '92 knows Pierre Gauthier is the GM that turned this team around quickly. Johnson continued the role pretty admirably.

Jacques Martin & Pierre Gauthier are the 2 men who should be in the "Ring of Honour", not that guy who took a Stanley Cup Final team and drove it to the ground.

 

[aragorn]

I'm not a fan of Jacques Martin at all, he was a great regular season coach but had his lunch handed to him not once, not twice but four times in the playoffs by Pat Quinn. He was too stubborn to adapt & would not fight fire with fire & because of Martin we lost some very embarrassing playoff rounds against Leaf teams that had no right to be there.

At least with BM not only did he have McGratton beat the crap out of Domi which ended the Leafs physical dominance over us, but he took this team where no other coach ever had. Yea, the team was stacked but so were teams that Martin had & he couldn't get out of the first round, Murray did & took them to the finals. Not all stacked teams get to the SC finals, it takes more than that & a takes a damn good coach who can adapt & get his team going when the going gets tough. Martin could not & may explain why he is no longer a HC.

 

[The Lewler]

Only one I was a bit ?? on was Duchesne, as he only played two seasons in Ott.

But I get it, was our best/most productive d man those years, scored some big goals.

Gonchar was a better D man over his career , but not as impactful while here at the tail end of his career. (he was still very good)

 

[jbeck5]

Are we talking best player ever(career wise and prime) to play for the SENS or the type of player they were when THEY WERE WITH THE SENS ?

Cause I would easily take out Kovalev, Duchense, Phaneuf and Gonchar
And add in Phillips and Volchenkov, there no denying this pair was our best shut down pair... ever
Also add in Fish and Turris/bonk

Apparently neither?

Mceachern was a 30+ goal(multiple times), 70+ pts player for us, and Neil made it over him. It's not like he was only here for a couple seasons either. He was here for 6 seasons. If all that matters is longevity they should have just taken the top 25 sens in GP.

Mceachern was a big part in getting our team to be a top team. He was a fast skater with a deadly shot and could beat goalies from far out. He cod beat goalies flying down the left wing firing slap shots like Paul kariya. Hes lead our team in scoring.

Look, Neil played a roll for this team no doubt, but that's what he was. A role player. A good role player no doubt. But role players don't belong anywhere near "greatest lists".

Are we the only team that does this? Do Detroit fans try to push 3rd and 4th liners like maccarty,draper, maltby as top all time redwings over actual top of the roster impact players they've had? (Even if you made it top 50 redwings to adjust for years played)

 

[Rooverick*]

I'm glad Neil is on this list. He's had a great career and given his all to the Sens.

 

[tony d]

Not to to bad, certainly better than the NHL's top 100 list put out a couple weeks ago:

Here is my list:

Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson
Mceachern-Yashin-Hossa
Bonk-Fisher-Neil
Havlat-Turris-Michalek

Karlsson-Redden
Phillips-Chara
York-Kuba

Anderson
Lalime

Based upon what they did for the team.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Maybe the list is money earned and that's why Neil and Phillips are so high up. Because we kept giving them multi million contracts after their prime so they could make this list.

I know people will probably jump on me for the Phillips comment because he's been with us for long...But that being said, he's never been a top defenseman for us.

Back in the day we'd swap him for a forward. And then after that we still gave more ice time to guys like duchesne, kravchuk, redden, York... Even in Phillip's prime he was a #3 or #4 behind Chara, redden, and maybe volchenkov depending on your preference. And then guys like gonchar too.

He's never been one of our better defenseman yet is on the list when guys who were ahead of him in the depth chart for their total time here spanning over several seasons are nowhere to be found for the list.

I'd rather have Crosby for 5 years than Darren maccarty for 20. Yet this list would put maccarty ahead because of time played.

He was a 3 on a team that had Redden and CHara. An elite team with an elite defense.

He never put up points like the Reddens, Charas and Karlsson's of the world, but he played better defense in his prime than two of them. Elite shutdown guy. He absolutely deserves to be on that list.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Thank you. I can believe I just read anyone seriously suggesting Phillips doesn't belong on the list. He's easily in the top 4. I guess people forget just how effective he was in his prime.



Again, spot on.

I would probably have left Neil and Kelly off the list in favour of higher calibre players like maybe Shawn McEachern and Mark Stone, but there's no denying they've both given a lot to the team, especially Chris Neil. I think this list is really good. The reason it's skewed to the early-mid 2000s is because those teams were great. Just as a side note only 4 of those players didn't play with us either the season before or after the year lockout.

I mended fences with Yashin a long time ago, this list made me realize the same is happening with Heatley. I was worried he was going to be left off this list and was happy to see he was included - as he should be. I like that he was relegated to the bottom row, though

I think Kelly is on that list because he was a crucial piece of the team that went to the finals. People forget how injury depleted the Sens were earlier that year, with Spezza and Alfie both missing significant chunks of time. Kelly was the topline center on a team that readied the ship after a horrid start. And made the finals.

 

[Sens Rule]

I'm not a fan of Jacques Martin at all, he was a great regular season coach but had his lunch handed to him not once, not twice but four times in the playoffs by Pat Quinn. He was too stubborn to adapt & would not fight fire with fire & because of Martin we lost some very embarrassing playoff rounds against Leaf teams that had no right to be there.

At least with BM not only did he have McGratton beat the crap out of Domi which ended the Leafs physical dominance over us, but he took this team where no other coach ever had. Yea, the team was stacked but so were teams that Martin had & he couldn't get out of the first round, Murray did & took them to the finals. Not all stacked teams get to the SC finals, it takes more than that & a takes a damn good coach who can adapt & get his team going when the going gets tough. Martin could not & may explain why he is no longer a HC.

Jacques Martin made this franchise. But I do agree to a point about him with you. Martin played to NOT LOSE. And likely in that dead puck era that made sense. But he kept doing it to the end when we had become pretty deadly offensively and elite.

It is hard to judge him vesus Murray though because in 05/06 we were virtually the 80's Oilers. You go from elite team that is defensive to best offensive team in the world with Hasek in net... crazy!!!

Anyway... I love Guy Boucher and his system now. He is practically Jacques Martin. Which is a huge mega compliment to Boucher. Not relevant to the top 25 Sens teams. But just saying that if I think Guy Boucher is doing for our team now what Martin did for it back in the day.... pretty happy with Boucher.

 

[Stylizer1]

I'm not a fan of Jacques Martin at all, he was a great regular season coach but had his lunch handed to him not once, not twice but four times in the playoffs by Pat Quinn. He was too stubborn to adapt & would not fight fire with fire & because of Martin we lost some very embarrassing playoff rounds against Leaf teams that had no right to be there.

At least with BM not only did he have McGratton beat the crap out of Domi which ended the Leafs physical dominance over us, but he took this team where no other coach ever had. Yea, the team was stacked but so were teams that Martin had & he couldn't get out of the first round, Murray did & took them to the finals. Not all stacked teams get to the SC finals, it takes more than that & a takes a damn good coach who can adapt & get his team going when the going gets tough. Martin could not & may explain why he is no longer a HC.

Murray didn't have to coach against Quinn or play the leafs in the playoffs.

 

[Langdon Alger]

McEachern should be on the list.

 

[Back in Black]

Murray didn't have to coach against Quinn or play the leafs in the playoffs.

Ha, good point Stylizer!

 

[Langdon Alger]

Murray didn't have to coach against Quinn or play the leafs in the playoffs.

It would have been interesting if he did. There could have been some good verbal sparring between the coaches in a series like that. Martin never replied to any of Quinn's comments as far as I can remember.

 

[Germz]

I think it's a good list for what it is - the players I consider most significant as a Sens fan for most of the last 25 years.

I agree that it's hard to leave off McEachern, but IMO it's even harder to leave out Arvedson. It's hard for me to imagine a single Senator forward who embodied the spirit of the Jacques Martin years than Arvedson. He was a Selke finalist for a reason. He was a damn good two-way player who worked hard, thought the game really well, shrunk away from physical play, and disappeared in the playoffs. McEachern put up more points, playing with Yashin like he did, but he was no defensive stud and his awful playoff numbers were an even worse crime than Arvedson's.

But it's hard to say who I'd take out to put Arvedson in. Kelly or Vermette? The three of them are about on a par IMO. Kelly and Vermette were part of the 2007 run, Arvedson was part of the 2003 run.

The D are all obvious choices except for Duchesne. I think I'd stick with him because that goal was my everything when it was scored. But you could argue a couple of local guys (York and Methot) ahead of him. And if the deciding factor for Duchesne is the big goal, it's worth remembering that Kravchuk scored a big one of his own the next year when we won out first playoff series.

 

[OmniSens]

Huh? Kelly and Neil? I like them both and respect them but there's a hand full of players that should be on there