Senators ranked 19th in NHL
- Thread starter mianjo
- Start date
bert
Registered User
Talent is not the issue. The durability and leadership of the Hughes Brothers is though.
I think Boston actually might be better except goaltending obviously. Tampa though. I don't love what they did at all. Stamkos is a better player than Guentzel not even taking the leadership aspect into consideration. They got worse on D too. But vasi is healthy now so thats big. To me they are the most ripe for the picking out of the big 4.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
The fanbase might not be in the acceptance stage at the moment but we're passed any bragging rights of any sort, unfortunately. And by that, I mean even looking at the Red Wings or Sabres, we are looking at them trailing behind. People are still laughing at Montreal but they finished 2 pts behind us and have a lot of things going for them now and are about to inject a lot of young talent.
The hope seems to be that the Sens squeeze into the playoffs. Imagine going into a full 100% rebuild and that's all you achieve 8 years later. This rebuild started very well but has turned into a disaster
We'll need a few miracles to turn the ship around, Norris and Chabot being healthy and at their best going forward would be huge. Ullmark working out and signing a "reasonable" extension would be important too. Then, I don't know, Stutzle and Sanderson become very elite in the NHL, and have a guy or two coming out of nowhere in the prospect pool.
bert
Registered User
No clue about roster construction eh. Ottawa doesnt need a miracle they need to not have league worst save percentage and a D core that holds the blue line and doesnt let in tap in goals all season. But you want them to bring back Brannstrom. Just wild.
Ottawa is going to have Pinto all season and has finally insulated the young players with real leadership and experience outside of Giroux.
Montreal got incredible goaltending and still absolutely sucked last year. They added an enigmatic Laine who Columbus literally had to attach a 2nd round pick to get rid of and you think they are on the up and up. They are going to finish dead last in the division.
Detroit has Talbot and Husson in net. No depth on the blue line and an old forward group outside of Larkin and Raymond. They are not better than Ottawa. Buffalo has real talent though they are going to be a team to deal with.
We see some similar hometown views on this site too. Not all commentators are rational and analytical; some are just fans of the home team with high hopes for the future.
"real leadership and experience" equals Ullmark, Perron, Jensen and Amadio?
Deleting Tarasenko, Chychrun and Joseph off the roster is a negative impact!
Ullmark should be a positive for us; however I think we need to add far more and better than Perron, Jensen and Amadio to make a significant difference after deleting Tarasenko, Chychrun and Joseph!
bert
Registered User
Ullmark, Perron, Jensen, Amadio, Cousins. Three cups a vezina goalie from a winning organization and a veteran d man who knows his job. Chychurn and Joseph were inconsistent players that didnt embrace their roles that's why they are gone.
We shall see the results shortly. Glad the season is starting soon.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 55,510
- 33,109
Joseph and Amadio are a wash, bring different elements but there's no downgrade here
Perron adds more grit but less offense than Tarasenko, I give tank the edge, but that's more than offset with Pinto not being suspended half the season.
Chychrun was a disaster here, Jensen will fit in far better in the role we needed to fill.
PoutineSp00nZ
Electricity is really just organized lightning.
Too much soft skill on this team last year.
In a vacuum Tarasenko and Chychrun seem like a better fit than Perron and Jensen for sure. But a team can't win with soft skilled players and nothing else.
I don't know if the moves will work out, but a team needs boring stay at home defensemen and gritty, rough forwards.
Joseph was an absolute beast for 20 games a year, and a total passenger the rest of the season. I'll take Amadio over him any day.
Cousins, Gregor and maybe Ostapchuk/Crookshank will be massive upgrades on the 4th line. If we have a 4th line that brings energy and can give trouble to opposing teams it will make a huge difference in momentum during games.That and Pinto there full time with reliable players will give an entirely different dynamic to the team.
We haven't had that in years. I think this iteration of the team is better constructed than it was in years prior. We could have a solid forward group, a good top 4, and a good goalie.
Players who know their role is also important. Jensen is a defensive dman but he can skate well, make a pass, and shoot the puck. Whoever plays with him will have a much easier life than playing with Chychrun on his off side. Now Chabot/Sanderson can jump in offensively knowing they have someone who can help them back there.
The rankings seem accurate but I feel like the expectations are (rightfully) low. This team dissappointed last year but let's not forget that we have the pieces in the right place to be a playoff team.
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Relapsing
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2018
- 2,108
- 1,951
Chychrun was a square peg we tried to fit in a round hole. A 3rd offensive D in our top 4 who was only going to fit if either himself or his partner played on their off side.
Three cups is a little laughable when you consider the context...
Perron: By the time the playoffs roll around this year he will be 6 entire years removed from that cup team.
Amadio: Was a fourth line player on VGK, has never cracked 30 points and we have him penciled in on our 3rd line.
Cousins: Was scratched for all but one finals game, where he played less than 10 minutes.
Counting these 3 players as key additions for a big playoff push feels disingenuous.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
Ok I cut your post there. Seriously you need to stop with this ridiculous crusade.
Some quotes in my past posts :
Note that I have never criticized Dorion for things he has no control about and injuries are one of these things. Roster construction and injury prevention is his responsibility though
And regarding management, Dorion makes some good moves but he makes too many costly mistakes and just can't get it done in terms of roster construction
Our PP is fantastic and is keeping us in games but 5 on 5 was neglected during roster construction
Yes there is some talent but it takes structure and savvy roster construction to have a good team at the NHL level
If he had someone for asset management, roster construction, pro scouting and foresight, he could actually be great
And the asset management, the pro scouting, the coaching staff, the complete lack of 2-way emphasis for roster construction
I mean, pro scouting evaluation, asset management, roster construction, foresight, coaching staff... a lot is terrible. Even drafting has gone down the last 2 drafts
And it's not just the trades and signings in itself but the whole context around everything... the horrible pro scouting, the players/situations mishandlings, the awful asset management, the lack of foresight, the lack of understanding of proper roster construction, etc
Is it my fault if I expect a NHL GM to do the basic stuff and do proper roster construction, proper asset management, proper salary cap management, proper pro scouting, proper drafting, proper coaching hires, proper PR, etc?
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Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 55,510
- 33,109
Amadio had 10 pts in 16 games for that cup team, and had notable 4th liners Reilly Smith, and William Karlsson as his most common linemates (that's sarcasm). I think you might be underselling his role on that cup team. He replaced Joseph who had pretty much zero role on the TBay teams that won the cup, and was inconsistent in his time here.
Perron replaces Tank, so same 6 entire years removed from a cup. I'll grant you that Tank is a better offensive player, but Perron is bringing a lot more grit, which imo will better suit a 3rd line role he is expected to fill.
Cousins is replacing, idk, MacEwen or Chartier? That's a huge upgrade, and he's been the kind of pest that throws teams off their game for years
Nobody is saying these guys are top tier players, but they do bring experience and leadership to insulate the young talented but inexperienced players. These are depth guys being slotted pretty appropriately, but who bring more than just their on-ice play.
I think it's fair. A lot will come down to the new coach and goaltending.
Korpisalo gone and Ullmark in. This should be a massive upgrade.
Defensive pairings seem obvious with - offensive guy, defensive guy and it fits much better:
Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Jensen
Kind of interchangeable and hopefully Jensen can handle high minutes, Chabot will be better with someone defensive as his partner.
Centers we should see an improvement with a year of Pinto. Can Norris stay healthy and be an offensive threat? Stutzle and Grieg are fine and Stutzle should have a bounce back year.
Wingers - Giroux, Tkachuk and Batherson are our three big names and I don't have major concerns about any of them. Batherson has looked better.
There is the potential we'll be in the playoffs but after missing so many years people need to see it to believe it.
Korpisalo gone and Ullmark in. This should be a massive upgrade.
Defensive pairings seem obvious with - offensive guy, defensive guy and it fits much better:
Sanderson-Zub
Chabot-Jensen
Kind of interchangeable and hopefully Jensen can handle high minutes, Chabot will be better with someone defensive as his partner.
Centers we should see an improvement with a year of Pinto. Can Norris stay healthy and be an offensive threat? Stutzle and Grieg are fine and Stutzle should have a bounce back year.
Wingers - Giroux, Tkachuk and Batherson are our three big names and I don't have major concerns about any of them. Batherson has looked better.
There is the potential we'll be in the playoffs but after missing so many years people need to see it to believe it.
You said "Cousins, Gregor and maybe Ostapchuk/Crookshank will be massive upgrades on the 4th line." You missed MacEwen who has an NHL contract and will be there too.
Our 4th line last season consisted of Kelly, Kastelic, MacEwen, & perhaps Kubalic.
I don't see Cousins, Gregor and maybe Ostapchuk/Crookshank as "massive upgrades" that will provide a "huge difference" during games.
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
Here I thought it'd be nothing but positivity after swapping out the worst "starter" in the league for one of the most consistent. That alone will steer the ship in the right direction imo and the rest will follow.
"disingenuous" is being kind!
I agree with the Ullmark part; he is more likely to be much better than Korpisalo as our #1 goaltender. "The rest will follow" does not follow!
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
We swapped out the worst one in the league for one of the best. I'm confident the rest will absolutely follow with someone competent to let them build off of it. Biggest issue this team has had is putrid goaltending, and we all knew Korpisalo wasn't a solution from the moment the contract was signed, so at least we get to move forward with someone that could be a potential solution instead of signing up for guaranteed failure again.
That depends on what you mean by "the rest will follow". I was reading it as the rest of the team (including Perron, Jensen, Amadio) will follow his lead and become better. I don't share that type of view. In addition, he has 1 year left on his contract before becoming a UFA. I hope we sign him but there is doubt that he will sign a UFA contract with us.
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
But I'll make an effort since you quoted me nicely this morning. When I talk about "miracles", I talk about Norris being healthy after a 3rd shoulder surgery at 25 y/o, or Chabot becoming healthy after 3 injury prone seasons. Or Ullmark deciding to give up a bit of money and CHOOSING Ottawa over a contender maybe. Things like that that I find could really the change the tides for this team.
I don't want them to bring back Brannstrom, too late as he signed somewhere else. The part you seem to have missed is that I would HAVE LIKED to keep him (only piece we have left of Duchene, Zibanejad/Brassard, Stone, Hoffman, etc trades) over having to watch Hamonic or Addison lace them up, maybe even JBD depending on his progression. But that boat has sailed because of yet another Dorion move and the 2 M$ QO, which looks as designed to give him a bigger hole but the team already had Chabot, Sanderson and Chychrun... weird
Hoping for a full Pinto season outside of his rookie season. Encouraging that he played the 82 games then all the 41 games he could play since that season that he missed almost entirely.
Montreal were in the Cup finals 3 years ago (2021)... they finally moved on from Bergevin and most importantly Trevor Timmins the following season. Their season last year was like our 2019-20 season, only the 3rd season of the rebuild... Of course they are not going to win the Cup this season. We should be MILES ahead being in our 8th season yet we only had 2 more points last season (goaltending is part of the team). And that's without even considering the pieces each team had to trade at the start of their rebuild. We should be a contender by now, nothing less.
I want them to finish dead last every year but I can't lie to myself, they have been adding serious talent in their pipeline the last 3 years. Can't even imagine the humiliation if they were to finish ahead of us this season.
Detroit has flaws and hopefully more than we think but the reality though is they had 13 more points than Ottawa last season and have a pretty good prospect pool (Edvinsson, Danielson, Sandin Pellikka, Cossa, Kasper, Brandsegg-Nygård, Augustine, Mazur, Johansson, Wallinder, etc)
Buffalo has a lot of talent all across the organization and if/when they figure it out, they might become the best team in the division
My hope is more seeing/waiting for a decline from Tampa, Boston, Toronto and even Florida
BonHoonLayneCornell
Registered User
The team can now just play as they need to when their goaltender isn't shooting them in the foot constantly. Bad goaltenders like Korpisalo kill teams and make them look much worse than they are. They have a chance now that they didn't with him imo. Along with the other roster improvements I think are there, including a healthy Pinto, Norris and Kleven promotion, I think it will work out and finally start trending in the right direction.
Not too worried about the Ullmark contract. I think it'll get done, but at least we got rid of the worst UFA contract ever handed out in Ottawa and can try to reset next summer if necessary. Priority #1 this summer was moving him out and starting over.
No matter what, they need their horses to lead them out of this, and they were pretty locked in to their stable of horses, so it either works out or probably needs to be heavily tinkered with at the core.
Having Ullmark as #1 in net, plus Pinto for a full year, plus a healthy Norris (that is a rather large assumption given the past 2 years experience) should improve team performance (points). However, we will likely have other injuries too.
I am not certain that Kleven is ready to play at the NHL level; he will be a rookie and probably have issues playing at the NHL level against better players, particularly on the road where teams will play their #1 and #2 lines against him. We might miss Brannstrom; though I understand why they did not sign him to his $2M QO.
