TSN: Senators lose 1st round pick in '24, '25 or '26 as penalty for Dadonov fiasco

[HSF]

I would believe that if the NHL was transparent and informative in its media release of the facts.

I think it was Friedman who said that about how the NHL was led one way and found out that the facts didn't line up. Andlauer also said that if there is a NTC it has to be included so it seems pretty straight forward.

I agree the NHL should be more open but could also be cause of legal reasons if Dorion pursues any action

 

[BondraTime]

Dorion never lied, at least in the eyes of the NHL after the investigation. If he did he would have been served a very long suspension.

Same as with the Coyotes, it was deemed gross negligence. They lost their picks, and no people were suspended.

"The league opted not to discipline any individual members of the organization involved in the situation because Bettman believes it was gross negligence rather than intentional wrongdoing"

Coyotes lose two picks for combine violations - TSN.ca

The National Hockey League sanctioned the Arizona Coyotes on Wednesday for violating the NHL's Combine Testing Policy during the 2019-20 season, announcing that the club will forfeit its second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Draft and their first-round pick in the 2021 NHL Draft.

www.tsn.ca

 

[Cosmix]

Some punishment was definitely required; however, losing a first round pick (a potentially good NHL player) seems to be disproportionate to the negligence/error committed. The value of a limited NTC clause seems to be very high in the NHL's assessment. I hope if the NHL deals out punishment in the future for similar infractions that that it does so in a consistent manner to other teams. This should now be considered the standard!

I doubt that the majority of teams would support such high value punishment in the future for this type of infraction. It would be interesting to see what other teams think about this as the future standard.

 

[Schmautz11]

What I don't get is ...if Vegas is the team that is ill done by, why do they not get anything? The penalty should be a form of compensation to the Knights, not the league. And something like that could go to an arbitrator if the league can't figure it out fairly.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

What I don't get is ...if Vegas is the team that is ill done by, why do they not get anything? The penalty should be a form of compensation to the Knights, not the league. And something like that could go to an arbitrator if the league can't figure it out fairly.

They have a shiny new Cup banner in the rafters. Giving Stone that extra forced layoff to really heal up that back is likely the catalyst for him having the stamina last season to lead the team through four rounds of playoff hockey. It's pretty much the most hockey he's played in nearly a decade.

It's one hell of a butterfly effect for them.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

What I don't get is ...if Vegas is the team that is ill done by, why do they not get anything? The penalty should be a form of compensation to the Knights, not the league. And something like that could go to an arbitrator if the league can't figure it out fairly.

Prior to the start of the NHL draft lottery, McPhee should get to pee pee slap Dorion live on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 360.

They could build up to it like they do with the draft lottery, with shots of Dadonov in his home watching and waiting to react to the Peepee slap, and interviews with everybody who was involved outlining why peepee slap will happen, and what they expect. They could have an interview live via satellite from Shawville where Tim Murray could outline his experiences with peepee slaps and how he thinks Dorion may handle it.

Then after the peepee slap they can interview McPhee and he can give the typical happy but guarded interview that GMs give after they win the draft lottery. A panelist led by Elliott Friedman can break down the peepee slap.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Prior to the start of the NHL draft lottery, McPhee should get to pee pee slap Dorion live on Sportsnet and Sportsnet 360.

They could build up to it like they do with the draft lottery, with shots of Dadonov in his home watching and waiting to react to the Peepee slap, and interviews with everybody who was involved outlining why peepee slap will happen, and what they expect. They could have an interview live via satellite from Shawville where Tim Murray could outline his experiences with peepee slaps and how he thinks Dorion may handle it.

Then after the peepee slap they can interview McPhee and he can give the typical happy but guarded interview that GMs give after they win the draft lottery. A panelist led by Elliott Friedman can break down the peepee slap.

This is a creepy post.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The penalty should be a form of compensation to the Knights, not the league.

Is the League itself going to use our pick to draft someone?

They are for sure winning the lottery that year.

 

[bert]

What I don't get is ...if Vegas is the team that is ill done by, why do they not get anything? The penalty should be a form of compensation to the Knights, not the league. And something like that could go to an arbitrator if the league can't figure it out fairly.

If you look at what went down the team that actually deserves compensation is Anaheim. Vegas was saved from themselves as they didn't lose a 2nd round pick that they were tying to dadonov to take him.

They actually benefited and won a cup with this. They ended up trading him for Shea Weber which gave them the LTIR to bury stone. That's why this entire thing and their complaining is infuriating.

A fair punishment would have been the sens giving up a 2nd to Anaheim.

 

[stempniaksen]

If you look at what went down the team that actually deserves compensation is Anaheim. Vegas was saved from themselves as they didn't lose a 2nd round pick that they were tying to dadonov to take him.

They actually benefited and won a cup with this. They ended up trading him for Shea Weber which gave them the LTIR to bury stone. That's why this entire thing and their complaining is infuriating.

A fair punishment would have been the sens giving up a 2nd to Anaheim.

Yeah but they missed the playoffs that year, missing out on $X revenues, which matter more to Vegas and the league than anything else. I highly doubt Vegas is considering the Cup the following year in all of this.

 

[bert]

Yeah but they missed the playoffs that year, missing out on $X revenues, which matter more to Vegas and the league than anything else. I highly doubt Vegas is considering the Cup the following year in all of this.

Dadonov lit it up when he came back. That was not the reason they missed. I am a little confused about the last sentence. It's a material fact. You don't have a choice of what to consider.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It still feels cruel and unjust. Kicking the franchise in the groin twice in a row.

I buy in to the idea that you'd never of seen this level of suspension if it were one of the league's darling franchises. Similar to their double standard for on ice suspensions.

 

[Flamingo]

Mendes on Bettman's respnose to the 1st round pick penalty, appeals, etc: Gary Bettman weighs in on Senators penalties: 'I'm more than comfortable with what we did'

In a nutshell, Bettman says he thinks the punishment was appropriate, won't engage in a public debate through the media, and said Andlauer's always welcome to call him.

 

[Luck 6]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but, they are losing the pick because they didn't inform Vegas of a 10 team no trade clause? I mean, Vegas had access to his contract, didn't they? Whether it be at the trade, or after the trade? You would think it would only be proper due diligence to review and understand all player contracts...

 

[BondraTime]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but, they are losing the pick because they didn't inform Vegas of a 10 team no trade clause? I mean, Vegas had access to his contract, didn't they? Whether it be at the trade, or after the trade? You would think it would only be proper due diligence to review and understand all player contracts...

They informed Vegas and the NHL that the NTC was not filed properly, thus void and null.

 

[GCK]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but, they are losing the pick because they didn't inform Vegas of a 10 team no trade clause? I mean, Vegas had access to his contract, didn't they? Whether it be at the trade, or after the trade? You would think it would only be proper due diligence to review and understand all player contracts...

It’s all on Dorion

 

[GCK]

They informed Vegas and the NHL that the NTC was not filed properly, thus void and null.

We could go into deep conspiracy theory. How about Dorion told them it was bull and void but Vegas chose not to follow up with agent before trading Dadonov so they would be able to move him anywhere and blame the Sens.

If I was a GM of a team I would trust but verify the information because it’s likely incredibly rare that an agent would have forgotten to submit a list.

 

[Micklebot]

I didn't read through this entire thread, but, they are losing the pick because they didn't inform Vegas of a 10 team no trade clause? I mean, Vegas had access to his contract, didn't they? Whether it be at the trade, or after the trade? You would think it would only be proper due diligence to review and understand all player contracts...

the NTC list is an addendum that needs to be refilled every year or the clause becomes void, the sens allegedly told VGK the list hadn't been filled on time, and thus was void. The process at the time, and presumably now, is to trust the teams not to lie or be negligent about things like this, so no further due diligence was done.

 

[Micklebot]

because it’s likely incredibly rare that an agent would have forgotten to submit a list.

can't remember which one, but somebody in media was saying it's more common than you'd think.

 

[Luck 6]

the NTC list is an addendum that needs to be refilled every year or the clause becomes void, the sens allegedly told VGK the list hadn't been filled on time, and thus was void. The process at the time, and presumably now, is to trust the teams not to lie or be negligent about things like this, so no further due diligence was done.

Thanks for this.

I'm sure there are reasons for this being laid out this way that I don't fully understand, but, from my perspective this seems like an inefficient way to carry out a contract.

 

[Tuna99]

Mendes on Bettman's respnose to the 1st round pick penalty, appeals, etc: Gary Bettman weighs in on Senators penalties: 'I'm more than comfortable with what we did'

In a nutshell, Bettman says he thinks the punishment was appropriate, won't engage in a public debate through the media, and said Andlauer's always welcome to call him.

Bettman also didn’t say no to reducing the punishment it from a 1st round, all he said was “that’s not my focus at the moment” so when push comes to shove Ottawa could see an appeal win

 

[Do Make Say Think]

We could go into deep conspiracy theory. How about Dorion told them it was bull and void but Vegas chose not to follow up with agent before trading Dadonov so they would be able to move him anywhere and blame the Sens.

If I was a GM of a team I would trust but verify the information because it’s likely incredibly rare that an agent would have forgotten to submit a list.

This is reasonable but the reality is that this basically never happened before.

That is all that is needed to establish that it was our fault and therefore should be punished.

The process was imperfect and will be improved but that doesn't excuse Dorion giving Vegas bad information. Bad information that was very easy to verify on our end.

Dorion lied, knowingly or unknowningly.

 

[GCK]

Andlauer just needs to get Molson and Jacobs on his side and it will be reduced.

This is reasonable but the reality is that this basically never happened before.

That is all that is needed to establish that it was our fault and therefore should be punished.

The process was imperfect and will be improved but that doesn't excuse Dorion giving Vegas bad information. Bad information that was very easy to verify on our end.

100% on Dorion but I still have a gut felling Vegas did something slimy. Is Melnyk’s forensic team done with Matt Cooke ? Maybe they could dig into this.

 

[Micklebot]

This is reasonable but the reality is that this basically never happened before.

That is all that is needed to establish that it was our fault and therefore should be punished.

The process was imperfect and will be improved but that doesn't excuse Dorion giving Vegas bad information. Bad information that was very easy to verify on our end.

Dorion lied, knowingly or unknowningly.

Just to be pedantic, you can't unknowingly lie, lying requires the intent to deceive.

Also, we don't know that this has never happened before, we only know that nobody was caught for it before. It's possible in the past, a GM mistakenly thought a NTC was invalid, traded a player, and nothing came of it because the acquiring team never tried to subsequently move them.

Lastly, it doesn't sound like the NHL has any interest in improving the process, I guess if you mean on our end, the Sens will improve their process, that's probably true.

 

[BondraTime]

Dorion never lied, he was incompetent.

If he lied, he'd have been served a lengthy suspension from the league.

Like the Coyotes, nobody was suspended because after the league investigation was completed, gross negligence, rather than malicious intent, was the reason for the debacle.