Low Effort GDT Senators in La Belle Province to beat up some scrubs | Tuesday October 1st, 2024, 7PM

[NyQuil]

I have watched a lot of hockey over the years including original 6. If the going gets rough, teams can place a big bruiser on the first line to address the threats being made. The Oilers did it with Gretzky, having McSorley and Semenko to address those who targeted G. It can be done.

It's been a long time since we've seen a guy like Dave Cementhead on the first line.

 

[Loach]

Consider that on 99% of the teams in the league, there would be no one playing with Stutzle that could take on Xhekaj.

So instead, like with Dach, everyone would just be skating around instead while the fans wonder why no one is stepping up to defend their player.

Ideally it would be MacEwan out there, but why would he be on the ice at the same time as Stutzle?

4th line enforcers spend most of their time fighting other 4th line enforcers, which is why they are often useless.

You don't know what an enforcer is. Look at rosters from 1997 and every team had a guy that could fight and play. They weren't even the enforcer. Lol. 3rd line guys from before the first lockout would own today.

 

[NyQuil]

You don't know what an enforcer is. Look at rosters from 1997 and every team had a guy that could fight and play. They weren't even the enforcer. Lol. 3rd line guys from before the first lockout would own today.

It's a different time.

The game is so much faster and the shifts are so much shorter. Not to mention, the general crackdown on hijinks and injuring other players.

It's apples and oranges.

We had guys like Smith, Fisher and Neil who could fight and play, sure.

Fighting is just much more rare nowadays.

You go from 803 fights a year in 2001-2002 to 311 in 2023-2024. And that's with more teams and therefore more games.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Be VERY careful what you wish for. An enforcer that can't play the game is a goal against waiting to happen or extra pressure on the other forwards

 

[NyQuil]

Be VERY careful what you wish for. An enforcer that can't play the game is a goal against waiting to happen or extra pressure on the other forwards

Having a guy on the 4th line who plays 4-6 minutes isn't a luxury that a lot of teams appear to want to sustain anymore.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Having a guy on the 4th line who plays 4-6 minutes isn't a luxury that a lot of teams appear to want to sustain anymore.

No, and for good reason. Those 4th liners are important to butter up defenders with major forechecks and good energy, not clunk around looking for a fight. It's like one game in 20 you wish you had an enforcer imo

 

[jbeck5]

There are multiple ways to win. You can have a couple of really high-end players that drive your success (see Edmonton or Colorado), or you could build a roster with less top-end star power but more depth.

Look at Dallas right now. Who are their top-end guys?

You have Heiskanen, Robertson, Johnston, Hintz and then a lot of good depth (Benn, Marchment, Duchene, Lindell, Stankoven, etc). But none of those players scored over 80 points last year.

There's not a lot of wow factor on that team, but they're one of the top contenders for the Cup. If you look at the most recent TSN top 50 list, they have 3 guys on it (Heiskanen at 25, Robertson at 33 and Johnston at 50). Not exactly blowing the doors off the elite.

When Vegas won the cup, they didn't have a single PPG player in the regular season. Neither did St. Louis when they won.

I'm not saying we have to have a top scorer...but if we don't, we have to have other things...see redden and Chara being both top 10 d...see Alfie and Hossa also not getting much over 80points, but they were the best 2 way wingers in the game. We would have those things while having like 8 guys capable of 20 goals any given year.

We have to beat all the other teams somewhere. I'm not saying it has to be top scorers...or has to be a Norris winning defensemen...but you have to be near league best in certain aspects.

Not sure what aspects were trajecting towards being near league best in. Star power? No...toughest? No... Fastest? No...

I'm just curious what you think will be our recipe to being a top 3 or so team, and how likely are we on that path.

 

[Big Muddy]

Consider that on 99% of the teams in the league, there would be no one playing with Stutzle that could take on Xhekaj.

So instead, like with Dach, everyone would just be skating around instead while the fans wonder why no one is stepping up to defend their player.

Ideally it would be MacEwan out there, but why would he be on the ice at the same time as Stutzle?

4th line enforcers spend most of their time fighting other 4th line enforcers, which is why they are often useless.

I agree with that. However, there might be a player on the bench that could take on Xhekaj later in the game though.

However, once again, this is tangental to the main point that I am “trying” to make, although evidently, I haven’t managed to do that so far.

I thought maybe the expression ("Be careful what you wish for") might have illustrated the point. I’m saying that a late hit that touches of a retaliatory type game scenario might not be wise for the Senators. Triggering Brady resulting in having him in the dressing room is advantageous for our opponent. I think we might not want to create this situation in the first place.

 

[jbeck5]

Be VERY careful what you wish for. An enforcer that can't play the game is a goal against waiting to happen or extra pressure on the other forwards

I think people are wanting a middle weight of old that can play on the third line and knows how to hit and fight... But a middle weight of old would be kind of a heavy today.

Maybe like a Tom Wilson or something

 

[SpezDispenser]

I think people are wanting a middle weight of old that can play on the third line and knows how to hit and fight... But a middle weight of old would be kind of a heavy today.

Maybe like a Tom Wilson or something

Agreed, but you see the kind of contract etc that a Tom Wilson gets. You have to draft and hope - which, I think they tried to do (and seemingly failed) with Boucher.

 

[jbeck5]

Agreed, but you see the kind of contract etc that a Tom Wilson gets. You have to draft and hope - which, I think they tried to do (and seemingly failed) with Boucher.

Boucher could still work if he could stay healthy and learn how to fight lol.

He just needs to stay healthy in the AHL and lay big hits and maybe train with an ex enforcer and literally just come here a year or two from now and just hit everything that moves and kick some ass. He would also have a decent base level of skill, and wouldn't be like a parros level plug or whatever.

 

[SensontheRush]

Just goes to show how underrated Watson was for us. Gonna keep bringing that up lol, even if now he is past his expiry date. He really enabled Kelly and Kastelic to dial it up physically as well.

Kastelic would have been nice to keep, but there were definitely some attitude problems there that needed to be solved through a trade, which remains to be seen.

 

[Blotto71]

Well, how many minutes did Chris Neil get? To be clear, I recognize that there aren’t many that can contribute via a regular shift and be good at fighting. We happen to face a couple of teams (Toronto & Montreal) that I can think of that have one of those guys in their lineups (haven’t looked up their TOI/G).

Anyhow, getting back to the main & most important point, when a retaliatory scenario unfolds like we saw last night, having Brady drawn into the melee and getting knocked out of the game due to penalties helps our opponent because the opponent's goon isn’t going to be missed as much as we would miss Brady. Injuries are another possibility. Just trying to analyze and understand consequences. Mea culpa for doing that.

Maybe it would be good to quote the expression: Be careful what you wish for.


Yes, this is true, and I recognize this. See above for additional info.

I don't disagree with anything you've stated - sorry if it came off otherwise. I too wish we could find another 210lbs unicorn. Neil was a great bottom 6'er, averaging close to 13min in his prime, 8ish at the start and end of his career. I'd be happy having 8min Chris Neil at this point just so Brady could lay off the fisticuffs.

 

[LiseL]

Jacques Martin had them playing quite different.

So have they forgotten what they learned or is this Green's coaching style (a la Smith)? As I said earlier, I really don't see any difference so far from most of the existing NHL players who were here last year. I still see issues with gap control, Stu trying to force his way through players, D men blocking our goalies sightlines, indecisive with the puck, one and done shots on net. Is it that they're overthinking trying to implement the new system, reverting back to old habits when not sure what to do, or a combination of the two? All I can say, they better figure it out quickly or this year's start won't be much better than last year's unless Ullmark stands on his head most nights.

Speaking of Ullmark, I remember in his first interview he stated that when he went to Boston from Buffalo, he couldn't believe the difference in culture. They competed hard even in practice. I wonder if he's experiencing deja vu with the play he's seen in front of him so far.

 

[Blotto71]

Can we get Spicy Tuna out of Utah?