GDT: Senators @ Devils 7:00 PM MSGSN, MSGSN2, ESPN+

[JimEIV]

Of course, but you obviously take the healthy roster over this Frankenstein group. That roster has a higher ceiling and a higher chance to turn around the play from Jan-Feb

The fact we are calling up the Footes of the world while playing Cholo is sad

I don't disagree. The roster is in bad shape. But if we didn't fall off a cliff in December we wouldn't be in this situation now and would be easier to bide our time until some get healthier.

 

[Devs3cups]

Should I check if Timo makes more than Bastian, Lazar, Haula, Dowling and Tatar combined?

12 5v5 goals from Timo is pretty shitty honestly.

We could go back and forth for hours. We will simply not agree on this, and that's okay!

I'll just say, with an average to slightly above average NHL level bottom-6, this team is most likely in Carolina's spot right now.

 

[Jan Ludvig]

would love to acquire two more Glass type reclamation projects this offseason for our bottom 6.

genuinely just guys like Sharangovich, Zetterlund and/or Boqvist which is sad.

Put those three in our bottom six and this is a different team…

 

[Bleedred]

Last OT loss was 24 games ago. We’ve been to OT twice since then and won the first in OT and the other in a shootout.

We lost in OT 3 times in 4 games when we had our most recent OT loss. One was a shootout loss.

Those were the days.

 

[Jan Ludvig]

My issues lie with Fitz. I don’t think he knows what it takes to build a competitive roster.

I think we have really good players but as a unit, we’re focusing on the wrong things and it’s hurting us.

Yup, this is all on him. Look at all of the guys he let go that could have filled out our bottom six.

 

[JimEIV]

We could go back and forth for hours. We will simply not agree on this, and that's okay!

I'll just say, with an average to slightly above average NHL level bottom-6, this team is most likely in Carolina's spot right now.

97 players scored 20 goals before Timo. 87 have 21 or more.... Timo has fewer goals than an 18 year old Celebrini and as many as Zach Werenski who'll probably win the Norris.

His season has been horse shit.

 

[Devs3cups]

97 players scored 20 goals before Timo. 87 have 21 or more.... Timo has fewer goals than an 18 year old Celebrini and as many as Zach Werenski who'll probably win the Norris.

His season has been horse shit.

Yes, he's had a tough season goal scoring wise as I've said in one of my previous posts. I agree, even if I haven't been mad about the way he's been playing.

Still doesn't change the fact that over 80% of our bottom-6 has been AHL level. With normal, realistic production from those guys, we're easily in the playoffs and most likely in Carolina's spot. And that production realistically should be more than 10 extra Timo goals.

 

[HersheyBob27]

I think Keefe is pissed

Ignorant

 

[Devs3cups]

Put those three in our bottom six and this is a different team…

Absolutely true. I miss Zetterlund so much.

 

[JimEIV]

not sure anyone can expect significant output from our or any 4th line .. but Mercer and Cotter have definitely been in our bottom 6 for most of this year...and the kicker is those two have as many 5v5 goals as Meier and Bratt.

Mercer 10 - Cotter 14 = 24
Meier 12 and Bratt 12 =24

Who should provide more?

Haula has 7 5v5 goals. Hardly far off from the 12 of the big guns considering the roles... and actually looks decent next to Noesen's 8 who has been top 6 most of the year

My magic 8 ball says "all signs point to Meier and Bratt"

 

[Killing Joke]

Kovy def sucked in the first period with some of his choices, but the data shows he was their second best player only to like, who struggled more defensively than Kovy.

Keefe blowing him up like that is stupid, especially when the worst dman on the team night in and night out is Dillon.

 

[My3Sons]

I generally agree with your assessment...but I think you are giving too much of a pass on those "counting stats"

Do you not agree that this team has a goal scoring problem? If you don't then nevermind.. but if you do, I think there are shortfalls from Haula, Palat, Mercer, Tatar, Meier, Bratt in terms of goals...and even the 4th line as whole is a bit short too but that's mostly inconsequential

If Meier is a 30 goal scorer right now , I believe this team is in a completely different situation.

And correct me if I'm wrong ... that's what we all believed we were getting when we made that trade and subsequent contract?

I understand why you’d single out Meier but a bunch of players are below what you’d expect. If the lineup as a whole had 10-15 more goals it is probably a different season.

 

[JimEIV]

I understand why you’d single out Meier but a bunch of players are below what you’d expect. If the lineup as a whole had 10-15 more goals it is probably a different season.

I just think that the top end has a much larger deficit

Look at Bratt the last bunch of years.
5v5 goals

20212022N.J. 21
20222023N.J. 20
20232024N.J 16
20242025N.J 12

Timo
20212022S.J 20
20222023S.J 17
20222023N.J 5 so 22 for 2023
20232024N.J. 15
20242025N.J. 12

Timo hasnt produced like the player he was before he got here... 37 in 134 games .276 gpg just before he came here and 32 in 160 games .2 gpg since he's been here.

These two guys should be much closer to 20 right now.



How about Haula
20212022 BOS 15
20222023N.J. 10
20232024N.J. 11
20242025N.J. 7
Haula definitely sucks but his gap in goals is hardly significant.


Mercer
20212022N.J 14
20222023N.J 20
20232024N.J 16
20242025N.J 10

Mercer is down for sure.. hard to say how much. You expect progress from a young player but the roles have changed so much from the first two years. Is he down just little bit from last year or a lot from 2023...but I would argue that going from playing with top 6 players to Haula for most of the last two years is going to leave a scar.

Cotter
20212022VGK 2
20222023VGK 13
20232024VGK 5
20242025N.J 14 career year

Noesen
20212022CAR. 0. Hardly played
20222023CAR 5
20232024CAR. 11
20242025N.J 8. Close to last year.

Bastian is pretty bad too
20212022N.J. 8
20222023N.J 6
20232024N.J 4
20242025N.J 1

How much did McLeod effect this ?

Ok I'm going to watch a fly tying video now

 

[MadDevil]

I generally agree with your assessment...but I think you are giving too much of a pass on those "counting stats"

Do you not agree that this team has a goal scoring problem? If you don't then nevermind.. but if you do, I think there are shortfalls from Haula, Palat, Mercer, Tatar, Meier, Bratt in terms of goals...and even the 4th line as whole is a bit short too but that's mostly inconsequential

If Meier is a 30 goal scorer right now , I believe this team is in a completely different situation.

And correct me if I'm wrong ... that's what we all believed we were getting when we made that trade and subsequent contract?

Nobody is saying Timo doesn't need to score more. I was merely pointing out that I think he's played better than the goal totals would indicate. He's shooting a career low at 5v5 this season, which unless he's suddenly forgotten how to finish will likely bounce back to more career norms. He's not as much of a feature on the PP as he was during his big goal scoring years, which is going to affect his overall production as well.

He needs to produce more. So do other players in the lineup. Bratt could score more, but he's on pace for 23 goals, which isn't drastically off his career averages. And we all know he's more of a play driver than a finisher anyway. Mercer has stagnated, no matter how many excuses you make for him. Palat and Haula are likely washed, so I can't really even be that mad at them. Father Time catches up to us all eventually. Cotter and Noesen have been more than adequate for their roles.

I think the issue is there's just not enough between the big guns (Nico, Jack, Bratt, Timo) and the 4th line guys. Our center depth was questionable going into the season and the combo of Jack getting hurt and Haula sucking on toast most of the year exposed it even more. We're essentially playing with one good center at this point. Glass has had some nice moments but he's more likely just a #4 guy.

 

[Devs3cups]

Man that Keefe clip is taking off lol

 

[Comparison Ford]

Man that Keefe clip is taking off lol

would love for them to be publicly humiliated into a playoff spot. just get there lmao

 

[britdevil]

Man that Keefe clip is taking off lol

It's some embarrassing shit.

 

[Call Me Al]

good thing i emotionally checked out of this sometime during the third period of calgary. they initially seemed like the adversity would be a rallying point and they could play a sound defensive game, be opportunistic and be a tough team to play against but as we’ve seen it’s just not happening.

honestly, reading a lot of this, i don’t think it’s worth comparing offensive stats of players from the lindy team to now, it’s just a different game.

this team and these players, especially its stars are not built to play a slow breakout/dump and chase game. they’re not good enough or aggressive enough on the forecheck to force turnovers and keep possession and they don’t attack the crease or make life hard for goalies, so they are just kind of there. next year they either need to fix the roster or find some medium between this and lindy’s style. this just feels like too much of an overcorrection.

if the power play is clicking they will win because of the defense but this team didn’t have what it takes to consistently grind out lower scoring games and now the d is starting to crack so i couldn’t even tell you what their strengths are.

the teams behind us are playing with a lot more urgency and heart than us, and we just have the attitude and posture of losers right now. i won’t be surprised if they miss

 

[Better Call Sal]

These vibes from the win against the Rags before Christmas feel like 5 lifetimes ago.

 

[MadDevil]

These vibes from the win against the Rags before Christmas feel like 5 lifetimes ago.

It's just sad really. I didn't think they were winning the Cup this year, but I at least had hope that maybe they could win a round or two and show that they're legit. Now it just feels kind of pointless. Even if they hold on and back into the playoffs, they get rewarded with their playoff kryptonite, and do it with a roster significantly worse than the one the last time they got their asses handed to them in the playoffs.

Obviously I'd rather they make the playoffs than not. Weird shit happens in the playoffs. Allen or even Markstrom could stand on their head or Carolina could self destruct, but it's hard to envision anything but a quick exit right now.

 

[Call Me Al]

a hot goalie can carry a team far but this team has so many holes and not many strengths

 

[Mgd31]

Weird to call out Kovacevic of all people. He played well last night and has been good since his extension.

 

[Call Me Al]

Weird to call out Kovacevic of all people. He played well last night and has been good since his extension.

plus he’s being paired with dumoulin who has been terrible

 

[NJDevs26]

the teams behind us are playing with a lot more urgency and heart than us, and we just have the attitude and posture of losers right now. i won’t be surprised if they miss

This is what gets me, I thought for sure Columbus would be the team to do us in if we crapped the bed down the stretch because they're nothing BUT urgency and heart. I guess their lack of talent is finally driving reality home over a long 82-game season though, much like it did for us in 2016.

Instead, we've been all but passed by Ottawa and frigging Travis Green, now if we manage to fob up a playoff spot to Lou's undead zombie Islanders, or worse to the ****ing dysfunctional Rangers from almost ten points up for three months for the coup de grace then pretty much everyone needs to be fired, traded or publicly called on the carpet, injuries or no injuries.

 

[Call Me Al]

what frustrates me the most now is the style of play. like all those years we had lindy and all we said was “we need average goaltending.” i don’t recall anyone saying “what we need is slightly above average goaltending and to also completely neuter the 5v5 offense and team speed” but for some reason that’s the direction we went.