Euro: Semifinals - England v. The Netherlands - July 10

[Prntscrn]

Saka handball before the penalty too. I don't know the rules, but former UCL, Euros, WC ref Jonas Eriksson in the Swedish studio claims that VAR should look at that and and not award a penalty.

 

[Albatros]

It's not just them. Just ask Manuel Gräfe. Football circles in Germany have been talking about Zwayer for some time. After this game, the English tabloids will be quiet obviously, but the Dutch press will pick it up. Truth is, it will follow Zwayer for the rest of his career. And I personally think it means he should retire asap as a ref and just go sell insurance or whatever it is he normally does 9 to 5.

Gräfe obviously has the right to his views, but it must be said that he conveniently waited until his own retirement before expressing them.

 

[canuckster19]

Saka handball before the penalty too. I don't know the rules, but former UCL, Euros, WC ref Jonas Eriksson in the Swedish studio claims that VAR should look at that and and not award a penalty.

That's because Jonas Eriksson has always had a clear anti-England bias, it wasn't clear that it touched Saka's hand, if we're going to semantics, how about Rice's foot being stepped on leading to the Dutch goal?

 

[Prntscrn]

That's because Jonas Eriksson has always had a clear anti-England bias, it wasn't clear that it touched Saka's hand, if we're going to semantics, how about Rice's foot being stepped on leading to the Dutch goal?

Yes it was, the fact that it hit the right hand that was in a natural position was according to him enough since it lead to the penalty. What wasn't clear was if it actually hit his left hand too that was not in a natural position.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Gräfe obviously has the right to his views, but it must be said that he conveniently waited until his own retirement before expressing them.

Well he is retired against his will. He's actually in a legal battle with the DFB fighting his mandatory retirement. He's going public about it because he basically doesn't care anymore what the guys in charge think of him. I'm sure he's not a selfless angel, but that doesn't change the nature of the facts of the situation.

I think we have enough good refs that we don't need to send guys that have taken money in the past or knowingly tolerated match-fixing to major tournaments to represent the country and association. If you're Felix Zwayer I can see why you'd like to do, if you're a good friend of his I can see that, too, but otherwise I am not sure how this is much of a controversial take.

And it's not like Zwayer's performances in the BuLi have been so good that you feel on the back of them he's automatically the guy considered as Germany's top referee. If he gets replaced, other than Zwayer literally no-one loses out or would say the game is missing something. Today's performance by Zwayer wasn't a disaster, but it also wasn't great.

 

[Jussi]

I think we can all (but one) agree that France- England would've been THE.ABSOLUTE.WORST final.

If he wasn't cleats out, I don't think it gets called, he was cleats out and got a yellow, he charged at Kane before the strike so, it was a dangerous play.

By the way, I saw a Finnish Inter fan posting that Dumfries committed a few of those this past season, so it's not out of habit for him.

 

[WTG]

With how weak their midfield is they likely would have benefited from bringing Van Hecke and using him as a deep playmaker in a back 3 as well. The guy is unreal at long passes.

Cowman also took Xavi out of the midfield and put him on RW against a tired England team. Meanwhile, Frimpong was sitting on the bench. We had so much fresh legs and he didn't make a sub till the 90th minute aside from Depay -> Weghorst and Malen -> Veerman.

Oh well, we should have a much better showing in the world cup if the players can stay healthy. Also have Xavi hopefully develop well in the next two years.

The core of the team going forward has some really strong players going forward. In 2026 the ages of the players will be pretty decent to make a run. Just need to pray on some of the young players taking a step forward.

The old killer adulterer or the muppet in power now?

It's in our national anthem

William of Nassau am I, of German descent;
True to the fatherland I remain until death.
Prince of Orange am I, free and fearless.
To the King of Spain I have always given honour.

 

[luiginb]

I think we can all (but one) agree that France- England would've been THE.ABSOLUTE.WORST final.

By the way, I saw a Finnish Inter fan posting that Dumfries committed a few of those this past season, so it's not out of habit for him.

Going back to the round of 16 Hagi had a header and immediately after Dumbfries hit him with the elbow in the head so hard he gave him a bleeder and a concussion. But we're not England so of course we didn't get a pen.

It's in our national anthem

William of Nassau am I, of German descent;
True to the fatherland I remain until death.
Prince of Orange am I, free and fearless.
To the King of Spain I have always given honour.

Those are some weird anthem lyrics, if you don't mind me saying

 

[WTG]

Those are some weird anthem lyrics, if you don't mind me saying

Yeaaaaaaaaaaah, I wouldn't mind if they changed it.

It's from the perspective of William van Oranje. So he's of German descent and always respected the king of Spain even after the Dutch declared independence. But it sounds really weird to sing from a dutch perspective.

 

[les Habs]

I will never forgive Spain for Ramos and Co. intentionally disrupting Schweinsteiger's interview after the final in 2008. One of the lowest and least classy things I've ever seen around football. And of course that's pretty much the story of Ramos's entire career.

So Ramos’ action represents Spain in 2024?

 

[Shrimper]

I don't think I could take losing another final

 

[Venkman]

Delicious HF tears. Great finish by Watkins to win it.

Mainoo excellent in the first half. Foden more like his usual self. England controlled the midfield after Simons goal until Koeman brought on Veerman. The game was more even after that.

 

[bluesfan94]

Other than North American's and Podcaster's, are there any proponents?

Yeah, plenty of people. Especially those that understand the difference between possessive and plural

That's because Jonas Eriksson has always had a clear anti-England bias, it wasn't clear that it touched Saka's hand, if we're going to semantics, how about Rice's foot being stepped on leading to the Dutch goal?

Foot being stepped on isn't a black and white rule like a handball leading to a goal, but I think because it led to a penalty, it being in a natural position would actually be a factor. Also, they should be able to tell definitively if it touched his hand given the chip in the ball.

 

[Albatros]

Well he is retired against his will. He's actually in a legal battle with the DFB fighting his mandatory retirement. He's going public about it because he basically doesn't care anymore what the guys in charge think of him. I'm sure he's not a selfless angel, but that doesn't change the nature of the facts of the situation.

I think we have enough good refs that we don't need to send guys that have taken money in the past or knowingly tolerated match-fixing to major tournaments to represent the country and association. If you're Felix Zwayer I can see why you'd like to do, if you're a good friend of his I can see that, too, but otherwise I am not sure how this is much of a controversial take.

And it's not like Zwayer's performances in the BuLi have been so good that you feel on the back of them he's automatically the guy considered as Germany's top referee. If he gets replaced, other than Zwayer literally no-one loses out or would say the game is missing something. Today's performance by Zwayer wasn't a disaster, but it also wasn't great.

Deniz Aytekin is pretty much the undisputed number one, but he hasn't made himself available for international games. The same goes for Felix Brych, and Marco Fritz is only doing VAR anymore. I guess Patrick Ittrich could be on the field instead of doing TV commentary, but really none of the available options are as merited as Zwayer.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Deniz Aytekin is pretty much the undisputed number one, but he hasn't made himself available for international games. The same goes for Felix Brych, and Marco Fritz is only doing VAR anymore. I guess Patrick Ittrich could be on the field instead of doing TV commentary, but really none of the available options are as merited as Zwayer.

What exactly is Zwayer's merit?

 

[NyQuil]

England has scored some nice goals.

 

[Epictetus]

Still baffled on how that was a penalty?

 

[Evilo]

The Saka handball was obvious for VAR.
Just like the numerous disgusting calls in favor of England throughout the game.

 

[Jussi]

Still baffled on how that was a penalty?

A late challenge with studds first. Reckless play, which I've seen called before.

 

[Evilo]

Deniz Aytekin is pretty much the undisputed number one, but he hasn't made himself available for international games.

Yes he has to enjoy his summer in his Barcelona residence.

 

[1865]

Yup, time to win their third Euro trophy in 16 years!

Why are you so obnoxiously anti-English? I don't know where you're from but you're giving off Scottish fumes.

 

[1865]

Still baffled on how that was a penalty?

It's not always given, but that doesn't mean it isn't a foul. That exact thing happens 3/4 times a game in the middle of the pitch and it's given as a foul every time without any complaint. There just seems to be some unwritten rule that you don't give it in the area for some reason.

Facts of the matter are that Kane and Dumfries went for the same ball, Kane got there first and got a shot off. Dumfries was late and caught Kane on the foot with his studs up. It's the very definition of a foul. The funny thing is that if Dumfries had got the ball first and Kane caught him, it would have been given as a free kick to the Dutch and nobody would have thought twice about it.

 

[hatterson]

The Saka handball was obvious for VAR.
Just like the numerous disgusting calls in favor of England throughout the game.

His hand wasn’t in an unnatural position, the ball came back to him incredibly fast off a deflection, and he wasn’t the one who scored the goal.

 

[Jussi]

His hand wasn’t in an unnatural position, the ball came back to him incredibly fast off a deflection, and he wasn’t the one who scored the goal.

Remember when the EPL VAR called a penalty for handball when three players jumped for an airball and the ball bounced between them from about a millimeter away? Pepperidge Farm remembers. One of the most ridiculous calls I've seen. Common sense is severely lacking sometimes in the handball verdicts. It's like "show me you've never played football and taken a shot on your body from a couple of meters". It's like the penalty Sociedad got against United in the Europa League when Licha dove to block a shot and the ball hit his arm from like a meter away.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

It's not always given, but that doesn't mean it isn't a foul. That exact thing happens 3/4 times a game in the middle of the pitch and it's given as a foul every time without any complaint. There just seems to be some unwritten rule that you don't give it in the area for some reason.

Facts of the matter are that Kane and Dumfries went for the same ball, Kane got there first and got a shot off. Dumfries was late and caught Kane on the foot with his studs up. It's the very definition of a foul. The funny thing is that if Dumfries had got the ball first and Kane caught him, it would have been given as a free kick to the Dutch and nobody would have thought twice about it.

The issue IMO is quite obvious... they changed the call on the field. If the referee called a foul then VAR would not have overturned it but in this specific case there was no obvious error that warranted a penalty. Both went for the ball and Kane was caught on the follow through not when his feet was in the air before he could take his shot, therefore it was a normal contact (even outside the box). It was a very very weak penalty to call, especially in the context of that game and the whole tournament (where they were very strict toward PK call from VAR).