News: Seattle Kraken Expansion Draft Thread

[Kranix]

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Does anyone know the rules if a team has two goalies with full NMCs, since team's are only allowed to protect one goalie?

I mean, why would a team have 2 goalies with full nmc?

My guess is you have to get one to waive it, and if you can't, the league will penalize the team draft picks or somewhere sanctions for violating protection list protocols.

 

[JohnHodgson]

That’s just, like, your opinion man. I think you’re under rating what Appleton could do with a larger role. William Karlsson, anyone? McCann paced for 61 points last year. He can hold down 2C or 2LW (switched with Gourde) for a season or so. Gaudette or Gambrell is your issue? Take Donato or True. Or better yet, make a trade with your 10 extras plus picks. Sign Armia or someone even better. You can fix something like 3LW but pretty easily.

The D…
Giordano, Soucy, Bean, Lauzon, Fleury, Larsson, Gostisbehere, Miller, Clague. It’s not that subpar and has enough extras (along with extra F) to make an upgrade if needed. The goalies are basically inevitable. Seattle has practically announced Dreidger and Vanacek is a given with what Washington is exposing. Bishop is a good insurance plan - good if healthy, LTIR if not healthy, cheap and easily movable if healthy but unnecessary, especially with some retention.

I 100% think that’s a playoff team in the pacific division. I also don’t think it’s half as directionless as you think. Who says it needs to be a full on contender day 1? This is just the draft. There will be trades post ED with the excess players selected, and there is UFA. This roster has the most value, pound for pound. Kylington is worth about a 5th. Giordano at 50% at the TDL is worth a 1st, maybe more. Tarasenko vs Dunn, next year with 1 year left and retention? It’s no comparison. The team will be 3rd or 4th in the Pacific, young and on the upswing with the ability to add strong picks or nearly ready prospects.

You're really going to use William Karlsson's 40 goal, 78 point fluke season as part of your argument? That's how you know the offense sucks.

Prior to Appleton's breakout year, he had 18 points in 82 games. This year, he only had 25 points in 56 games, shooting a career high 13%.

McCann is good - I picked him as well, but slotted him as a third line winger, where he excelled this year. Asking a third line winger to suddenly step in to be a second line center is just a recipe for disaster. If McCann was viable at center, why did Pittsburgh go out and grab Carter to play with him? McCann is obviously more suited to be a winger, one of the reasons why he excelled this year. He also shot a career high 15% shooting percentage, so don't expect him to replicate these numbers. We've seen time and time ago, role players with very hot streaks, but never can consistently become a consistent core player.

Gaudette and Gambrell are the type of players that are your 13th forward if you have a good, deep team. If these type of players are on your third line, it's painfully obvious that the team is no good.

The D is maybe average but likely below average - nothing to write home about.

To say this roster has the most value, pound for pound, is just so wrong. You are taking marginal prospects/players over quality NHL players. Where exactly is the value in this?

Sissons over Jarnkrok? Jarnkrok is a way better player on a better contract as well. There's no universe that Sissons should be picked ahead of Jarnkrok.

Soucy over Kahkonen? Bottom pairing defenseman who plays 15 minutes a night over a young goalie with upside? Ok bud.

Kulak over Drouin? There's just a ton of value with journeyman Brett Kulak over here...

Bellows over Eberle? Yup, let's pass on the established top six goal scorer who's been dynamite in the playoffs the last 3 years for a HUGE maybe. Said prospect played 14 games last year in the NHL and his career AHL numbers (50 points in 125 games) is nothing to write home about.

Gaudette over Zadorov? Failed prospect that went for nothing over an established NHL defender with room to improve.

Abaramov over Tierney? Marginal prospect over a great bottom six forward that can slot in any team's 3/4C and would be a valuable deadline piece.

Lauzon over Ritchie? Let's pass on the 25 year old forward top 9 forward who has been a 40 point pace forward for the past 3 seasons with room to grow.

Out of all the forwards you can pick up, you're gonna go with Andreas Johnsson, Adam Gaudette and Dylan Gambrell on your third line? Where's the value in these guys? None of these guys have ANY trade value.

Your roster is literally the opposite of value.

 

[Lempo]

Yes, but RFA players drafted without signed deals give Seattle a lot of wiggle room. They should not be anywhere close to the cap after the draft before signing any of the players that are without contracts.

The very least, Seattle is in hook for the cap hit equivalent to the player's QO. Which admittedly isn't very high if the QO'ed player is right off the ELC.

2020-21 Transition Rules important date footnote tidbit:

5 If the Expansion Club selects a potential Restricted Free Agent from a Current Club's available list and such Player has not yet received a Qualifying Offer, the Expansion Club will have the option to indicate that it will provide a Qualifying Offer to such Player. Such indication will require the Expansion Club to make the appropriate minimum Qualifying Offer to the Player and will cause such Player to be included in the aggregate Expansion Draft Value of the Expansion Club consistent with the treatment of Qualifying Offers.

 

[viper0220]

Which UFA's do you think Seattle will sign?

And when can Seattle start signing UFA's?

 

[Lempo]

I mean, why would a team have 2 goalies with full nmc?

My guess is you have to get one to waive it, and if you can't, the league will penalize the team draft picks or somewhere sanctions for violating protection list protocols.

My guess is that the rule to protect NMC would in this case supercede the other one, and the team would be required to protect both and there would be no penalties. There can't be a rule that would effectively force a goalie to waive the NMC that is a negotiated part of his SPC, nor can you punish a club for signing an allowed kind of SPC.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

If Seattle are smart they will take Joseph off of Tampa

Cause f*** Tampa, let them have to make another move to free cap space, don't hand it to them - can probably grab a player or 2 off waivers from them

 

[francis246]

My Prediction on who they will take. I think they will try and build a solid defense. Why not take Subban and Giordano who are both expiring next year. You can move them as rentals and to have those two as your top pairing for the first season would be incredible.

 

[mouser]

I just looked at the draft rules. They have to pick one from each team for a total of 30, but it also reads, "Seattle must choose a minimum of 20 players under contract for the 2021-22 regular season..."

Does that mean that they can pick as many as 10 UFA's?

Yes, but that stipulation also includes unsigned RFA’s.

If Seattle doesn’t want a pending UFA player from Team X there’s probably a RFA they’d be good with.

 

[mouser]

Can teams trade to get a player back after the ex draft?.....I can't recall.

Yes. But the NHL’s position is Retained Salary can’t be involved in such a Trade.

 

[LokiDog]

You're really going to use William Karlsson's 40 goal, 78 point fluke season as part of your argument? That's how you know the offense sucks.
Prior to Appleton's breakout year, he had 18 points in 82 games. This year, he only had 25 points in 56 games, shooting a career high 13%.
McCann is good - I picked him as well, but slotted him as a third line winger, where he excelled this year. Asking a third line winger to suddenly step in to be a second line center is just a recipe for disaster. If McCann was viable at center, why did Pittsburgh go out and grab Carter to play with him? McCann is obviously more suited to be a winger, one of the reasons why he excelled this year. He also shot a career high 15% shooting percentage, so don't expect him to replicate these numbers. We've seen time and time ago, role players with very hot streaks, but never can consistently become a consistent core player.
Gaudette and Gambrell are the type of players that are your 13th forward if you have a good, deep team. If these type of players are on your third line, it's painfully obvious that the team is no good.
The D is maybe average but likely below average - nothing to write home about.
To say this roster has the most value, pound for pound, is just so wrong. You are taking marginal prospects/players over quality NHL players. Where exactly is the value in this?
Sissons over Jarnkrok? Jarnkrok is a way better player on a better contract as well. There's no universe that Sissons should be picked ahead of Jarnkrok.
Soucy over Kahkonen? Bottom pairing defenseman who plays 15 minutes a night over a young goalie with upside? Ok bud.
Kulak over Drouin? There's just a ton of value with journeyman Brett Kulak over here...
Bellows over Eberle? Yup, let's pass on the established top six goal scorer who's been dynamite in the playoffs the last 3 years for a HUGE maybe. Said prospect played 14 games last year in the NHL and his career AHL numbers (50 points in 125 games) is nothing to write home about.
Gaudette over Zadorov? Failed prospect that went for nothing over an established NHL defender with room to improve.
Abaramov over Tierney? Marginal prospect over a great bottom six forward that can slot in any team's 3/4C and would be a valuable deadline piece.
Lauzon over Ritchie? Let's pass on the 25 year old forward top 9 forward who has been a 40 point pace forward for the past 3 seasons with room to grow.
Out of all the forwards you can pick up, you're gonna go with Andreas Johnsson, Adam Gaudette and Dylan Gambrell on your third line? Where's the value in these guys? None of these guys have ANY trade value.
Your roster is literally the opposite of value.

I disagree with a lot of your assessments, but a lot are nit picky. Flip McCann to W and Gourde to C. Yeah he was a 3LW this past year but it’s an expansion team that doesn’t have Crosby, Malkin, Zucker, Guentzel, Kapanen and Rust. He still paced for 60 points. Slotting him up to the second line is what happens with ED teams. Guys who were playing down the lineup get a chance in a bigger role.

I would absolutely take Lauzon over Ritchie. I just don’t think Ritchie has that much value, personally. But even so, swap the Lauzon pick (which was an extra) for Ritchie. These are minor adjustments. Yes, Karlsson’s post ED season was a fluke numbers wise, but is he not still a key top six player for a Vegas team that has had tremendous success, despite not re-achieving those numbers? Of course I don’t expect Appleton to have a 78 point season. I can see him having a 50 point season though given top six minutes. Swap Tierney for Abramov if you want. Now you have Tierney and Ritchie on the third line instead of Gaudette and Gambrell. The drafting philosophy remains essentially the same. Jarnkrok is a personal favorite. My instinct is to take him in all of my mock drafts, but Sissons is an ideal 4C who can win draws and PK. He fits, and that’s a solid ass 4th line. Soucy over Kahkonen because they’re pretty obviously taking Dreidger and Vanecek, but Soucy could play second pair minutes on an ED team for a year or two until Bean is ready to jump him and take over second pair minutes. Could be as early as this year. You can call audibles on 3-4 of the 30 picks to make a better third line if you want, but the OVERALL draft strategy is essentially the same. For it’s worth, this is just a roster I put together off of this list, which was my overall ED list:

Fleury
Fischer
Lauzon/Ritchie
Miler
Giordano
Bean
Gaudette/Zadorov
*Landeskog
Domi
Bishop
Namestnikov/Svechnikov
*Larsson/Kahun/Khaira
*Dreidger
Grundstrom/AA/Clague
Soucy/Kahkonen
Kulak
Jarnkrok/Sissons/Ingram
Johnsson
Bellows
Gauthier/Blackwell
Tierney/Abramov/Daccord
Gostisbehere/Voracek
Tanev/Aston-Reese
Donato/Gambrell/Simek
Tarasenko/Dunn
Gourde/Foote
McCann
Virtanen/Motte
Vanacek
Appleton

 

[mouser]

Does anyone know the rules if a team has two goalies with full NMCs, since team's are only allowed to protect one goalie?

There are no publicly available rules covering this hypothetical situation.

Not surprising since the likelihood of it happening is so low. Why would any team ever have two goaltenders with NMC’s? Especially when they’ve known for at least two years that an Expansion Draft is upcoming?


My best answer to your question is: The NHL can’t remove NMC’s from contracts. The most likely outcome in my opinion is the NHL would allow the team to protect the two goaltenders but issue a penalty to the team so severe that having two goaltenders with NMC’s was never worth it.

Think of loss of a 1st round pick and 7 figure fine as the starting point, and probably much worse then that.

 

[abo9]

My Prediction on who they will take. I think they will try and build a solid defense. Why not take Subban and Giordano who are both expiring next year. You can move them as rentals and to have those two as your top pairing for the first season would be incredible.

View attachment 453913

I entertained the idea as well but ultimately, I don't like the idea of potential'y losing the first pairing after one year.

And there's some good D UFA this year, I think Seattle is better off using part of that $9M from Sub and locking up a guy like Hamilton for a few years. Giordano I like if only for the leadership and example he sets for a young blue line.

 

[Lempo]

My best answer to your question is: The NHL can’t remove NMC’s from contracts. The most likely outcome in my opinion is the NHL would allow the team to protect the two goaltenders but issue a penalty to the team so severe that having two goaltenders with NMC’s was never worth it.

Think of loss of a 1st round pick and 7 figure fine as the starting point, and probably much worse then that.

I would guess it would depend a plenty on if it would be deemed as an intentional attempted circumvention of having to expose either of team's legit NHL goalies in the Expansion Draft, or if the NMCs were negotiated in bona fide before the Expansion Draft rules were out there. Obviously Seattle expansion has been coming a long way since, and trying to claim it being bona fide after the Vegas expansion rules were published would be hard.

 

[Yog S'loth]

You can’t leave me and not fill me in…….

Jim Thomson, signed by LA as a free agent in the 1990 off season.

Selected by Minnesota in the 1991 expansion draft, then traded back to LA a few weeks later in a package for rising star Todd Elik.

Selected by Ottawa in the 1992 expansion draft, played a few games for the Sens, then traded back to LA for Bob Kudelski. (Horrible trade for LA, yech)

Selected by Anaheim in the 1993 expansion draft. Played six games for Anaheim and his career ended, all 115 games of it.

 

[voxel]

I missed two teams but from their lists I'd list pick some throwaway UFA

 

[majormajor]

Contract can be retained and if he waived his NMC once, I don't see why he wouldn't again. For some reason people are really pushing this "he cannot be traded because of his NMC" narrative when we really have no idea what he's willing to do. Nobody imagined Price could be available until he was.

I really think he doesn't mind the thought of going home to the Pacific Northwest, it's not him being willing to go anywhere.

 

[majormajor]

Why would you not take Gio, Gourde, Domi, JVR, Duchene, Eberle if you're Seattle? You can be competitive right away.

Vanecek is available, Dreidger is signed. So they have two goalies that won't cost much cap.

Some of those players won't help you be competitive.

Duchene isn't just a bad contract, he's a bad player right now.

Domi is sometimes good, sometimes bad, but definitely injured for the first months of the season.

Giordano might have the wheels fallen off at this point.

Gourde is the one guy on your list that is a total no-brainer selection, or he would be if Palat weren't also on offer. JVR is an okay player if you ignore the cap hit and Eberle is fine.

 

[gstommylee]

Contract can be retained and if he waived his NMC once, I don't see why he wouldn't again. For some reason people are really pushing this "he cannot be traded because of his NMC" narrative when we really have no idea what he's willing to do. Nobody imagined Price could be available until he was.

I doubt he waives again...

 

[bossram]

Who I think they should draft, but not necessarily will. Trying for a mix of a competitive team but taking some players that a future core could be built around. And minimizing cap anchors:

JVR (PHI) - Gourde (TB) - Domi (CBJ)
Neiderreiter - Duchene (NAS) - Eberle (NYI)
McCann (TOR) - Compher (COL) - Aston-Reese (PIT)
Benson (EDM) - Donato (SJ) - Merkley (NJ)
Gauthier (NYR), Fischer (ARI)

Giordano (CGY) - Demelo (WPG)
Reilly (BOS-UFA) - Stecher (DET)
Dunn (STL) - Jensen (WAS)
De Haan (CHI) - Kulak (MTL)

Driedger (FLA-UFA)
Kahkonen (MIN)
Forsberg (OTT)

Mascherin (DAL), Lizotte (LAK), Fischer (ARI), Chatfield (VAN), Borgen (BUF)

Easily a playoff team in the Pacific. Guys like Domi, Niederreiter, De Haan, JVR can be flipped with good performances. There's a very good blueline. I drafted quite a few Quad-A young-ish guys (Benson, Merkley, Gauthier, Mascherin, Lizotte, Borgen) with the hopes that there's a couple of hits in there. The only real anchor contract is Duchene - but he's still been very effective at chance creation, the finish has just betrayed him, Hopefully with another volume shooter (Eberle) and a greasy forechecker/retriever (Niederreiter) he can have a bounce back.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Based on how strange Anaheim's protection list is (they protected Deslauriers), I think there is already a deal in place between the teams. I think Seattle will be getting Henrique and another piece like (or similar to) Mahura. I think that was the cost of protecting Jones, Steel and Fleury. That's just my guess though.

It would take quite a bit more than Mahura to get Seattle to take Henrique.
I think it could be based around former Ron Francis draft pick Hayden Fleury.
Perhaps Anaheim was gonna go 4-4-1 and protect Fleury but lose one of Steel or Jones
Maybe Ron really likes Fleury. Henrique + retention and Seattle selects Fleury + maybe a pick or prospect sent to Seattle as well.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

JVR (PHI) - Domi (CBJ) - Eberle/Bailey (NYI)
Vatrano (FLA)- Tierney (OTT)- Donskoi (COL)
Johnsson (NJD) - McCann (TOR)- Jarnkrok (NSH)
Tanev (PIT) - Girgensons (BUF)- Namesnikov (DET)
Pitlick (ARZ)-Donato (SJS)-Virtanen (VAN)

Benson (EDM) ,Gauthier (NYR)

Dunn (STL) - Zadorov (COL)
Lauzon (BOS) - Foote (TBL)
Bean (CAR)- Kylington (CGY)

Fleury (ANA) - Fleury (MTL)
Clague (LAK)

Kahkonen (MIN)
Bishop (DAL)
Vanacek (WSH)

70.2M minus everyone that wouldn't be on the 23-man roster

 

[Daximus]

JVR (PHI) - Domi (CBJ) - Eberle/Bailey (NYI)
Vatrano (FLA)- Tierney (OTT)- Donskoi (COL)
Johnsson (NJD) - McCann (TOR)- Jarnkrok (NSH)
Tanev (PIT) - Girgensons (BUF)- Namesnikov (DET)
Pitlick (ARZ)-Donato (SJS)-Virtanen (VAN)

Benson (EDM) ,Gauthier (NYR)

Dunn (STL) - Zadorov (COL)
Lauzon (BOS) - Foote (TBL)
Bean (CAR)- Kylington (CGY)

Fleury (ANA) - Fleury (MTL)
Clague (LAK)

Kahkonen (MIN)
Bishop (DAL)
Vanacek (WSH)

70.2M minus everyone that wouldn't be on the 23-man roster

You have two Colorado players.