Post-Game Talk: Season Over, Jets Lose 4-1

[Mortimer Snerd]

Say what you want about Schief but he played with poor line mates and still scored 40 goals. He's still a top tier centre, and is 5 years younger than wheeler. Wheeler is the only remaining Thrasher on the team. If you want to change the core it starts with him. If you want a full tear down rebuild you trade scheif and helle for 1st round picks and prospects and we don't see the playoffs for at least 2 years. I don't understand why that is better than keeping the good players you have. Just shiny new thing syndrome. Wheeler needs to go though just for a culture change.

Wheeler is irrelevant. Really. Move him. Don't move him. Find some way to LTIR him. Play him on the 3rd line. No difference at all. Having had a cup of coffee with the Thrashers has always been completely irrelevant. For that matter, having been a Thrashers mainstay for years has never been of any importance either. They did not bring a fungus with them. Besides moving him being irrelevant, it would also be difficult.

Yes, Scheifele is still a top tier C - and the return should reflect that. He is still facing his pending UFA year. Being his contract year, he will probably have a career season.

So lose Wheeler and Dubois and bring back the rest unchanged? Why would you expect any better result? That is 118 pts to replace. 43 goals. We would probably finish just out of the PO and draft 16th. Would you then want to give them yet another year?

You have to realize that Scheifele and Helle are both past their peaks. They probably won't decline sharply for 2-3 more years but they will be trending downwards.

The team needs a culture change. Moving Dubois and Wheeler won't bring that about.

 

[surixon]

Wheeler is irrelevant. Really. Move him. Don't move him. Find some way to LTIR him. Play him on the 3rd line. No difference at all. Having had a cup of coffee with the Thrashers has always been completely irrelevant. For that matter, having been a Thrashers mainstay for years has never been of any importance either. They did not bring a fungus with them. Besides moving him being irrelevant, it would also be difficult.

Yes, Scheifele is still a top tier C - and the return should reflect that. He is still facing his pending UFA year. Being his contract year, he will probably have a career season.

So lose Wheeler and Dubois and bring back the rest unchanged? Why would you expect any better result? That is 118 pts to replace. 43 goals. We would probably finish just out of the PO and draft 16th. Would you then want to give them yet another year?

You have to realize that Scheifele and Helle are both past their peaks. They probably won't decline sharply for 2-3 more years but they will be trending downwards.

The team needs a culture change. Moving Dubois and Wheeler won't bring that about.

If you want a culture change then Mark needs to go and fully turn the room over to Lowry and Morrissey

 

[Stumbledore]

The team needs a culture change. Moving Dubois and Wheeler won't bring that about.

And how do you propose they get a culture change?

 

[Ducky10]

Think of what you want of pionk. I personally am not a huge fan however he noticeably battled I thought.

I thought Pionk was one of the few who played with any jam the whole series. Too much was asked of him with minutes and match ups but the guy shows up to play.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If you want a culture change then Mark needs to go and fully turn the room over to Lowry and Morrissey

I think so too, but I can't be sure, not having inside access. After that you have to decide what makes sense with what is left. I think that moving both top 6 Cs means at least a couple of years out of the PO. That means that Helle should go too because he is wasted on a non-playoff team and he won't remain elite for that many more years. Meanwhile, his market value is still very high.

And how do you propose they get a culture change?

By moving out more than just Wheeler and PLD. At least that is a start. TC needs to start with a bunch of players introducing themselves. Only half joking.

 

[BrokerD]

And how do you propose they get a culture change?

Culture isn’t established over night. It takes time to grow organically when given the right environment. This team is poisoned - anything short of a complete overhaul is useless.

 

[SensibleGuy]

And how do you propose they get a culture change?

New GM. Probably new coach. Bunch of new players. I'd say new owner but maybe not plausible. lol...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Didn't mean to get caught up in my opinions on the off-season in this thread.
This is more of a farewell to the 23 season thread, or was.

I want to join in with others expressing thanks to Mac and others for GDTs and prediction contests.

I also want to thank all of the other posters here, even the ones I end up arguing with. I appreciate everyone's opinions and DISCUSSION points. This is a great place to hang out and a great bunch of guys and gal(s?) to hang out with.

 

[MarkWheeler]

I’ve kind of changed my opinion on Helly. I no longer see him as a clutch playoff goaltender. We all understand that defensive play is not the team’s forte, but the guy just lets in too many back breaking goals, often on his first shot faced.

Hang around here a little while, you’ll see it’s always the D’s fault with Helle, and never his (I agree with you 100%, why can the guy never show up ready to start a period, it’s horrible)

 

[MarkWheeler]

Yeah, I just want Chevy to say enough that we can actually hold him accountable to his own words. No more word salads that finish with how much of a process everything is. Accountability starts at the top and I think the Jets organization has really struggled with holding people accountable in their roles both on the ice and off.

As for Bowness at least he can be held accountable to what he's said. He isn't trying to play diplomacy anymore. I doubt the players are in the dark as to who he was talking about but the media speculation is going to follow each and every one of them. Deserving of criticism or not I think that's where Bowness and Cheveldayoff probably need to get out in front of it and calm down the speculation for the sake of the players who are going to be here going forward.

Chevy is on about the same level as Trudeau for getting anything of substance out of listening to him speak. If they can him I’m sure a career in politics wouldn’t be a stretch. I just want to bang my head into a wall everytime I listen to him speak it’s so painful

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

When you have a team with key injuries and the rest of the team *appears* to play like they want the season to end - guess what, the season will end!
I hope there are huge changes this off-season to this group of entitled underachievers and Sr. Mgmt. (Yes, I'm bitter)...

 

[Jedub]

Shief, I'd hate to see you go, but I'd love to watch you leave. In a non-sexual way.

 

[Gnova]

If you want a culture change then Mark needs to go and fully turn the room over to Lowry and Morrissey

So get rid of Scheifele and hand over leadership to two other career Jet players in order to fix things?

 

[Jedub]

So get rid of Scheifele and hand over leadership to two other career Jet players in order to fix things?

I can't believe Morrissey's part of the problem, I always got a "I'm too mature for this and it's starting to make me sick" vibe from him.

 

[Jets 31]

I think he needs to be measured. By that I mean he should acknowledge the disappointment and indicate changes will be made but not everything in the org is cluster f***.

Bowness threw everyone under the bus but not everyone deserved to be thrown under the bus. We had some great individual performances this past year and we also had stretches of excellent team play and buy in. There definitely is going to have to be some mending of fences with regards to the players who we want to keep in the fold. It's hard to go back into a room with a coach who throws that kind of tirade even if a lot of what needed to be said was said.

I don't agree, what Bowness said was absolutely true , our best players weren't good enough and Vegas's best players were better than ours, all absolutely true. He said he was disgusted and embarrassed how we played yesterday and that's true too. If some of our "Star" players have had their feelings hurt ,too bad, the truth sometimes hurts. It's about time these guys got ripped a new one because too many are looking like they are just collecting a paycheck and don't want to do the hard work needed to become a great team.

 

[DRW204]

my thoughts-i am just so meh on this PO run (walk? stroll?)

i've seen some analysts or w/e have this series closer than what the team's standings indicated. i had it close / back-and-forth b/c of the goaltending mismatch which helle evidently did not perform.

then the injuries, it was going to be an uphill battle no matter what.

however - and this has been a bit of a trend...... Game-6 against STL, everyone remembers that pitiful effort. Game-4 against MTL 16 SOGs in the game (+some OT). then last night.

i get it, you're down, long-shot to win... but jeez the effort/push-back/will however you want to label those intangibles were basically non-existent. PL-plays no D Mr. PO-beast, supposed 1C once again complete no-shows for us in the POs. KC was a complete non-factor. when a combo of Lowry and Wheeler are noticeably ahead of the rest as this teams best players.... you're not going to win. and that's no disrespect, but PLD/KC/Helle playing at their best>those 2.

 

[AlaskaJet]

if he doesnt listen to bones...who will he isten to...???? Tortorelli?? and why would he bring in a coach who tells him how to do his job...

Good questions…IMHO Successful GM’s listen to their coaches..usually. That’s what I’ve noticed anyways..

 

[surixon]

I don't agree, what Bowness said was absolutely true , our best players weren't good enough and Vegas's best players were better than ours, all absolutely true. He said he was disgusted and embarrassed how we played yesterday and that's true too. If some of our "Star" players have had their feelings hurt ,too bad, the truth sometimes hurts. It's about time these guys got ripped a new one because too many are looking like they are just collecting a paycheck and don't want to do the hard work needed to become a great team.

He didn't just say last night he stated it has been that way since January. That seems to me he skipped over some good performances namely the first 4 games of the series.

 

[BigZ65]

He didn't just say last night he stated it has been that way since January. That seems to me he skipped over some good performances namely the first 4 games of the series.

Just good enough to be down 3-1 going into Game 5 I guess.

I guess if you try to isolate you can find positives, but on the whole not good enough, and like Bowness said over a period of basically half a season...plus the last 3 seasons of Maurice (giving him credit for the brief Lowry era too).

EJ Hradek said on NHL Network today the Jets have the vibe of an organization that's just happy to be in the league. Now I don't fully agree, but I think Chipman and others might have unrealistic expectations on how they should be able to contend year after year. I'm not sure they realized the window has been closed and locked for years now. They are trying to pry it open with their fingers but it's sealed shut on this core.

I really hope Chipman isn't fixated on being in the race for 8th in the conference every year. That's a terrible way to live.

 

[Hobble]

Imagine if Bones had gotten to the post game scrum and then just started blaming the Whiteout.

 

[surixon]

Just good enough to be down 3-1 going into Game 5 I guess.

I guess if you try to isolate you can find positives, but on the whole not good enough, and like Bowness said over a period of basically half a season...plus the last 3 seasons of Maurice (giving him credit for the brief Lowry era too).

EJ Hradek said on NHL Network today the Jets have the vibe of an organization that's just happy to be in the league. Now I don't fully agree, but I think Chipman and others might have unrealistic expectations on how they should be able to contend year after year. I'm not sure they realized the window has been closed and locked for years now. They are trying to pry it open with their fingers but it's sealed shut on this core.

I really hope Chipman isn't fixated on being in the race for 8th in the conference every year. That's a terrible way to live.

Clearly changes need to be made and Chipman needs to re-evaluate and do something to correct things. Still I think Bones let his emotions get the best of him. Some players deservedly need to be tossed out but many are going to still be here next year.

 

[macmaroon]

 

[scelaton]

He didn't just say last night he stated it has been that way since January. That seems to me he skipped over some good performances namely the first 4 games of the series.

I agree, but not really, if you know what I mean...(...doing my best Chevy impersonation)

Bones exaggerated the situation, but it had to be done that way. There has been so much obfuscation and understatement by this organization that someone just had to scream "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!". The fan base found this very cathartic and some of the players may have as well.

You think Lowry and Morrissey are taking offence? I guarantee you they will be in the room with Bones and Chevy to plan the future before you know it. The two new co-captains know exactly what's been going on, as do a handful of other players who could potentially be a big part of the solution.

 

[surixon]

I agree, but not really, if you know what I mean...(...doing my best Chevy impersonation)

Bones exaggerated the situation, but it had to be done that way. There has been so much obfuscation and understatement by this organization that someone just had to scream "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!". The fan base found this very cathartic and some of the players may have as well.

You think Lowry and Morrissey are taking offence? I guarantee you they will be in the room with Bones and Chevy to plan the future before you know it. The two new co-captains know exactly what's been going on, as do a handful of other players who could potentially be a big part of the solution.

Well hopefully you guys are correct. Going to get the popcorn ready for tomorrow. Hope we hear from a lot of players.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Quite possible that by venting the way Bones did he knows that he is not coming back, fixing this team is not a 1 year thing

I wonder how Chipman takes the comments from Bones. It is certainly a criticism of the team and leadership that Chevy built and banked on for too many years. But Chipman may also take it personally - we don't really know to what extent he is involved in player decisions. Personally, I don't think he meddles in that, just let's Chevy do his thing

Now that Maurice quit on this group of players and Bones told the world what we have been talking about for years about a portion of this leadership group, I think TNSE is forced into some big changes. Hell, even Stastny talked about it on his way out the door. I mean, how many times can you sweep this shit under the rug.