Sean Couturier about to get healthy scratched 34 days after being named the new Flyers' Captain

[thekernel]

They're winning games too.

People just don't like xG because it's math and sometimes it says something they don't want to hear.

If you have any concept of "puck luck" which 99% of hockey fans do, you already pretty much understand what expected goals are.

Depends which xG model you look at. Except you can't look at them, because the data driving them aren't available for public scrutiny. I can't think of anything that is less mathematic than "just trust me bro"

And to your first point, if I was a gambling man, I wouldn't bet on the Flyers to make the cut. 20th in goals, 17th in goals against, 18th in differential, 19th in regulation wins. Those are quantifiable stats

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Good for Torts. Has a roster overachieving greatly, have to trust his methods.

 

[Machinehead]

Depends which xG model you look at. Except you can't look at them, because the data driving them aren't available for public scrutiny. I can't think of anything that is less mathematic than "just trust me bro"

Of course it's publicly available. They use shot data that is tracked by the league itself and any site tracking in-game xG will show you a map of exactly where each shot was taken and exactly how many xG it was worth.

You're thinking of something more advanced like WAR/GAR.

 

[JoeGarelli]

Yeah, I wouldn't say any of it makes him a terrible coach—in the traditional sense.

But Torts' practices benefit only Torts in the long run. He can get mediocre rosters into the playoffs, but they do so with wildly unsustainable trends that limit them from actually competing once there. Hell, the whole reason they're so thoroughly f***ed on defense right now is that "just block 25 shots a game" has their defense in tatters—significant injuries here, "maintenance days" galore over there. Along the way, he often damages player relationships and diminishes player value in ways that hurt the teams' ability to get value/replace them in the long run.

For instance, it isn't a coincidence that Torts-coached teams often have the worst PP in the league. The Rangers did for a season or two under his watch, the Blue Jackets did in his time there, the Flyers are in 32nd on the PP for the second year in a row.

Part of it is talent, but a big part of it is that he offloads responsibility for it to an incompetent assistant and then absolves himself of responsibility. Even though it happens under his watch everywhere. But he's not interested in that aspect of the game or taking any heat for it—and if his teams had moderately competent PP production, they'd often increase their scoring and elevate their playoff positioning in not-insignificant ways.

As far as head coaches go, he's the limbo man. Teams with the elite talent you need to win a Cup aren't going to hire him for fear of alienating/tarnishing that talent. Teams without that talent will hire him to get more out of the spare parts they have, but that pushes them into no-man's land. Along the way, he'll piss some players off, win more games than he should, and ultimately his tenure will end with him losing the team like every other coach does eventually.

He's kind of just a waste of time. It's the Torts show, where everyone slobs on how great it is that he turned a scrappy band of 3rd liners into first round mincemeat, but the organization itself ends up just spinning its wheels during his tenure and for years after.

every once in a while i start writing something and part way through i think wow i'm an idiot, and i delete.. But you made it through more than four paragraphs.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yeah, I wouldn't say any of it makes him a terrible coach—in the traditional sense.

But Torts' practices benefit only Torts in the long run. He can get mediocre rosters into the playoffs, but they do so with wildly unsustainable trends that limit them from actually competing once there. Hell, the whole reason they're so thoroughly f***ed on defense right now is that "just block 25 shots a game" has their defense in tatters—significant injuries here, "maintenance days" galore over there. Along the way, he often damages player relationships and diminishes player value in ways that hurt the teams' ability to get value/replace them in the long run.

For instance, it isn't a coincidence that Torts-coached teams often have the worst PP in the league. The Rangers did for a season or two under his watch, the Blue Jackets did in his time there, the Flyers are in 32nd on the PP for the second year in a row.

Part of it is talent, but a big part of it is that he offloads responsibility for it to an incompetent assistant and then absolves himself of responsibility. Even though it happens under his watch everywhere. But he's not interested in that aspect of the game or taking any heat for it—and if his teams had moderately competent PP production, they'd often increase their scoring and elevate their playoff positioning in not-insignificant ways.

As far as head coaches go, he's the limbo man. Teams with the elite talent you need to win a Cup aren't going to hire him for fear of alienating/tarnishing that talent. Teams without that talent will hire him to get more out of the spare parts they have, but that pushes them into no-man's land. Along the way, he'll piss some players off, win more games than he should, and ultimately his tenure will end with him losing the team like every other coach does eventually.

He's kind of just a waste of time. It's the Torts show, where everyone slobs on how great it is that he turned a scrappy band of 3rd liners into first round mincemeat, but the organization itself ends up just spinning its wheels during his tenure and for years after.

I think that’s all pretty fair. To me, Torts comes as advertised and is one of the very best at winning hockey games at the moment you’ve instructed him to start winning. He’s not an organization builder, or a grand tactician. He’s there to win, period.

The head scratcher, which everyone noted at the time, was that the Flyers ever hired him to begin with. Once that bridge was crossed, he delivered as advertised. It just didn’t make much sense to their organizational development.

 

[Crosstraffic]

No coach has got more out of one Cup win than Torts. 20 years of failure since.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Isn't this like Torts most extreme, 'nuclear option' type of last ditch effort tactic? What do you have after this?

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

Looks like he only got 11mins they're last game vs Boston.
Maybe he tried to get his point across then and it didn't work. So he's scratching him?

 

[William H Bonney]

The letter on the sweater is still the most overrated topic in hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So he’s a terrible coach because his teams outplay expectation and don’t just go out there and shit the bed?

Torts is a coach you bring in because you want to win hockey games. If that’s a problem for a team like the Flyers, blame it on management for hiring him at that moment in time. But it’s downright ridiculous to expect him to deliberately lose games so he can get fired around the time they start putting a competitive roster together. That sort of thing is for actual loser coaches, and those guys are easily identified by which teams they’re coaching.

Hockey isn’t a video game. Relationships are such a big part of the game. So you win some games? It’s not resulting in a Cup for his teams. Hasn’t for a long time.

You create an environment where players don’t want to play for the team and hate the coach.

Torts “wins” aren’t worth it. He’s not the only guy that can get a team to over perform the results they can get. You are also almost certainly going to find someone who can manage relationships better.

 

[Rich Nixon]

every once in a while i start writing something and part way through i think wow i'm an idiot, and i delete.. But you made it through more than four paragraphs.

Shoulda flexed that muscle in this instance, chap. Contribute or don't.

I think that’s all pretty fair. To me, Torts comes as advertised and is one of the very best at winning hockey games at the moment you’ve instructed him to start winning. He’s not an organization builder, or a grand tactician. He’s there to win, period.

The head scratcher, which everyone noted at the time, was that the Flyers ever hired him to begin with. Once that bridge was crossed, he delivered as advertised. It just didn’t make much sense to their organizational development.

Well, it's indicative of who/what the Flyers are. They're a marketing operation. Torts was hired over Fletcher's head and prior to the current CEO's arrival. Comcast Spectacor's corporate management at the time hired an outside consulting firm that gave them Torts or Tocchet as their options.

They went with Torts and immediately began centering their marketing materials around him—I'm not kidding. NO MORE BULLSHIT! Their local-market commercials all feature voiceovers from him talking about Establishing a Standard and Earning Respect. It's the most pandery "Philly grit" garbage imaginable, but it works in the market somehow.

Those Spectacor stiffs retired and were replaced with another corporate stiff—Dan Hilferty, a health insurance executive without any hockey management experience. Torts got his claws in there right away. After Fletcher got the axe, keeping Tortorella around was actually a prerequisite for the new GM and President of Hockey Ops hire. Which is why a number of notable names turned down the jobs and they ultimately ended up with two pre-existing Comcast Spectacor employees (Briere and Jones) in those positions. Lap dogs.

So he might be Here to Win, but he was hired by cable company consultants who just like that he has a gruff reputation and talks a good game. It's a very sad sports team, and Torts' bulletproof standing within it is based on his ability to portray some oracle of TUFF HOCKEY on TV.

Which is fitting. The adage about a dumb man's impression of a smart man, etc.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How on earth does this make him a terrible coach?

Because maybe, and I know this is a wild thought, finishing in like 18th place in the NHL isn’t worth it when you have someone who poisons the workplace?

 

[robertmac43]

It's Torts's way...that much is clear.

 

[thekernel]

Isn't this like Torts most extreme, 'nuclear option' type of last ditch effort tactic? What do you have after this?

Tom Sestito on the powerplay

 

[sxvnert]

1) Three players were scratched.
2) 1 assist in his last nine games
3) sends the message to the rest of the team: "if this keeps up, you are next".

Honestly surprised it took this long.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Sometimes you gotta raise the temp to break the fever.

 

[Canucks LB]

People sure love to criticize, but don’t understand how bad he’s really been.

I am sorry, your captain can’t be having a run like this just 34 days after being named.
He’s a great guy, but he needs to play better

 

[NVious]

I heard he also told him to turn in his phone

 

[a mangy Meowth]

Tom Sestito on the powerplay

Torts puts on skates himself and QBs PP1

 

[mr figgles]

every once in a while i start writing something and part way through i think wow i'm an idiot, and i delete.. But you made it through more than four paragraphs.

You should have thought that about this post.

 

[Crosstraffic]

Tom Sestito on the powerplay

LOL, I remember how shit Vancouver was during that era. Playing Sestito night after night, racking up the PIMs. He must have done some serious favors for Torts, since he played more games with Vancouver that season than the rest of his NHL career combined.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

No coach has got more out of one Cup win than Torts. 20 years of failure since.

He’s the Lou Lamoriello of coaches. Largely coasting on past accomplishments, but no tangible accomplishments in the past decades on all the teams he’s joined.

I like his no nonsense approach in general, but I think the timing to scratch his captain is poor with their season on the line.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

No coach has got more out of one Cup win than Torts. 20 years of failure since.

Doc Rivers of the NHL

 

[orby]

Torts' schtick works until it doesn't. He wears out his welcome for a reason.

 

[ref19]

I mean he's got a goal and 5 assists in the last 2 months