Confirmed with Link: [SEA/NYR] Kaapo Kakko for Will Borgen + 3rd + 6th

[NickyFotiu]

I don't necessarily disagree, although, I'd have liked to swap it out with a relatively similar player who has yet to find their feet in the league.

More the fact that GM's normally are prepared to pony up a bit more than that for a former top 10 pick, let alone the 2OA.

Maybe the perception of Kakko is he skates poorly rather than the toxic big bad Rangers have ruined him - but for Drury to take back a guy who absolutely screams plodder who'll get turnstiled at the blue line? Scouted him for years, though, it would seem

Depends on plaayers and years in the NHL. Some 7 years in are just getting waived. Krav also had little value league wide. I thought a 3rd was fair based on this season and last so Drury got a little more than I expected. A 2nd would have been the highest I ever could have hoped for.

Edit: Why do you think we took back a plodder? I read he was a good skater.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

I don't know what happened to KK. What I do believe in my soul - is that if other teams with proper development systems picked Lias, KK, Kravtsov, to some extent Laf, etc - they wouldn't have all busted.

It's difficult to say. Andersson and Krav both got chances with other orgs. Both fell flat on their faces and were out of the NHL pretty soon after. Will have to wait and see what Kakko does. I do agree that NYR tried to cosmic brain something with all 3 players (4 including Laf) and spectacularly failed every time.

It should put a bright, hot spotlight on NYR's European scouting. 3 top10 picks in consecutive years that all busted - 2017, 18, and 19. f***ing sucks. To be fair though, that 1st round in Kakko's draft year just doesn't look like a good crop outside of like 2-3 players.

 

[McRanger]

It's a few things.

None of us ever saw him being a finished product, but I can't think of a single skill that he improved on after being drafted. He clearly didn't put in the work regarding his skating - that's for damn sure.

I never saw this hunger or drive in him that other successful youngsters have. He always just was . . . there. Maybe that's just Finnish stoicism or something, but I've seen other Finns able to express that hunger and drive so . . .

Either way. So much of this is on him. Could the Rangers have done a bit better with him? I guess. Maybe they could've really kicked his ass and told him to work on his skating more. I'm just not sure how much that would accomplish.

It's not as if he ever earned anything, here. He didn't earn more ice time. He didn't earn more PP time. He didn't do anything to earn anything, frankly. Other than his draft pedigree, anyway.

But it's just wild how little he actually improved skills-wise. Really kind of nuts.

Stagnation would have been disappointing but at least I could wrap my head around it.

He didn't so much as just stop getting better as he did get worse at everything.

The most obvious thing was his strength and conditioning. In 18-19 he played like 100 games of competitive hockey and even by WC at the end he was still a bull along the boards and with the puck. By the start of the 19-20 season he looked winded going over the boards at the start of a shift and was getting knocked off the puck by people that would be small in Liiga.

Even if he put no effort into improving his games its like his natural physical gifts just evaporated. Like Daigle sucked but he was still fast, when he decided he wanted to skate he would be faster than most players on the ice. You'd see Kakko fighting for a puck and end up on his ass half the time. Its insane.

 

[will1066]

I don't necessarily disagree, although, I'd have liked to swap it out with a relatively similar player who has yet to find their feet in the league.

It didn't take me 6 years to discover i have a penis no less my feet

 

[Mandar]

It didn't take me 6 years to discover i have a penis no less my feet

ouch....you just "Borged" him....

 

[Jack Hanson]

Time for lunch. Might as well have a borger.

 

[will1066]

ouch....you just "Borged" him....

No no, I didn't mean to be mean lol. Just the D+6 remark earlier triggered me. D+6!

 

[chosen]

At some point you are


With all due respect will more PP time make make a player a better skater? A better puck handler? Have a better shot?

I think KK was benched around 1 time every 70 games or so.

Zooks was benched. CK was benched. Lafi was benched. Chytil was benched. Guys get benched occasionally. Its not the end of the world.

None of us know how this will play out for Kakko.

My only point is that on a failing team, I would prefer to keep a 23-year-old who tends to be on ice for more goals for than goals against.

If i thought I was getting the better of it, I would trade anyone, but i don't believe we got the better of it.

 

[Mandar]

Time for lunch. Might as well have a borger.

well played sir, well played!

 

[Rongomania]

Every single team in the league drafts him 2nd. Every single hater of this kid is defending this bonehead trade.

Whatever man, the tank is on unless Zibanejad and Kreider turn it around. Not really seeing that happening.

This team is a f*cking disgrace and no wonder Drury is getting fleeced, the whole league is laughing at him.

 

[nyr2k2]

Lias Andersson just wasn't that good. It was a pick a lot of people questioned at the time and it didn't work out. Obviously the whole situation with him wasn't handled well, but I don't think he makes it if he's picked by another team. LA is at least decent at developing players and they got him at age 22 and he topped out as a 4A player.

Kravtsov was a little bitch. He just didn't have the mental fortitude to make it as an NHL player and quite honestly I don't think he was that good, either. Rather, I think he was good enough to have an NHL career, but he wasn't as good as he thought he was, and he didn't want to put in the effort. Maybe he has since done that, but it seemed pretty clear he was only going to play in the US on his terms--which is not how it works.

Kakko and Lafreniere, open books. Kakko is a disappointment for me, I really thought he'd take off. He just never really looked particularly good. I mean he had games, and moments. For sure. But overall he was so bland. He probably should have spent time in the AHL early on but I'm not sure that would have really helped anything in the end.

Lafreniere I was hoping would take another step forward this year. As I said in another thread, though, it's hard to evaluate young players in a totally lost season. I think he has generally been fine this season and if some of the shit heads around him weren't pouting, he'd have closer to 30 points and we'd all be really excited about him.

 

[will1066]

From the seattle times:

In his Kraken debut, trade pickup Kaapo Kakko played with Matty Beniers and Jared McCann and saw power-play time, as alluded to by general manager Ron Francis earlier in the day. At regular strength, he hit the goalpost.

Quotable: “Not an engaged start to the game, I’ll say that for sure.” -Kraken coach Dan Bylsma

Conclusion: The poor starts were Krakko's fault.

 

[ArPanet]

Every time I see Lafreniere drifting backwards towards the right circle or below it for his middling 1 timer I’m disappointed he’s not heading to the net. Like, that’s all Cuylle thinks about.

 

[NickyFotiu]

None of us know how this will play out for Kakko.

My only point is that on a failing team, I would prefer to keep a 23-year-old who tends to be on ice for more goals for than goals against.

If i thought I was getting the better of it, I would trade anyone, but i don't believe we got the better of it.

Fair enough but I don't think we can judge players by plus minus alone. Leetch would have some bad plus minus years. Rosi had some good ones. As far as being 23 I agree but his value could keep dropping plus you have a contract coming due. Sometimes standing pat is actually going backwards and going stale. Maybe a fresh start in Seattle will make KK become a 30 goal 60 point guy but I do not think that was going to happen here.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Kakko was a wide ice merchant who could skate around to the the outside of non-NHL skaters on a bigger ice.

On smaller rink against NHL level skaters he just can't do it.

Has he ever once carried the puck through the guts of the ice from his own end into the offensive zone, where he wad to weave through a defense? you now like Jack f***ing Hughes does to this team seemingly every shift he's out there...I truly don't think he has.

And not fast or quick enough to beat NHL players wide on smaller rink carrying the puck like he did as a prospect.

His pure vision and playmaking ability on their own were never great, they were more a byproduct of him opening stuff up by his ability to beat people with skating and stickhandling.

He's a grinder with some decent finishing ability in this league for a 3rd liner. that's it.

 

[chosen]

Fair enough but I don't think we can judge players by plus minus alone. Leetch would have some bad plus minus years. Rosi had some good ones. As far as being 23 I agree but his value could keep dropping plus you have a contract coming due. Sometimes standing pat is actually going backwards and going stale. Maybe a fresh start in Seattle will make KK become a 30 goal 60 point guy but I do not think that was going to happen here.

We will all find out together.

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

It didn't take me 6 years to discover i have a penis no less my feet

I initially read that very differently

 

[GlasgowNewYorkRanger]

Depends on plaayers and years in the NHL. Some 7 years in are just getting waived. Krav also had little value league wide. I thought a 3rd was fair based on this season and last so Drury got a little more than I expected. A 2nd would have been the highest I ever could have hoped for.

Edit: Why do you think we took back a plodder? I read he was a good skater.

I will freely admit I don't sit glued nightly to Kraken games, but the metrics on this guy, especially this season, look horrific.

 

[kovazub94]

At some point you are


With all due respect will more PP time make make a player a better skater? A better puck handler? Have a better shot?

I think KK was benched around 1 time every 70 games or so.

Zooks was benched. CK was benched. Lafi was benched. Chytil was benched. Guys get benched occasionally. Its not the end of the world.

We can expect that in the new organization Kakko initially will get a chance to perform in offensive situations that being a top-6 role and / or PP opportunities. Unless he unleashes some untapped potential that we have never seen (maybe except for some tiny flashes) he’ll probably lose these opportunities soon enough WITH Kraken. I can see that maybe in certain situations he’d be able to be carried by a much superior talent of his linemates but IMO Kraken don’t have what I have in mind in this definition.

 

[kovazub94]

It's a few things.

None of us ever saw him being a finished product, but I can't think of a single skill that he improved on after being drafted. He clearly didn't put in the work regarding his skating - that's for damn sure.

I never saw this hunger or drive in him that other successful youngsters have. He always just was . . . there. Maybe that's just Finnish stoicism or something, but I've seen other Finns able to express that hunger and drive so . . .

Either way. So much of this is on him. Could the Rangers have done a bit better with him? I guess. Maybe they could've really kicked his ass and told him to work on his skating more. I'm just not sure how much that would accomplish.

It's not as if he ever earned anything, here. He didn't earn more ice time. He didn't earn more PP time. He didn't do anything to earn anything, frankly. Other than his draft pedigree, anyway.

But it's just wild how little he actually improved skills-wise. Really kind of nuts.


What did KK ever do to deserve/warrant playing with Bread?

Even if this is true and Bread didn't want to play with him, what on earth did Kakko ever do to show that he'd be a good fit with Bread? I don't get this fascination with blaming everyone else other than the individual player, here.

The only time I recall there was a noticeable improvement over summer was after he signed his first bridge deal after he completed his ELC. Not before and definitely not after. How much of this should be put on the organization for mishandling his development?

 

[NickyFotiu]

I will freely admit I don't sit glued nightly to Kraken games, but the metrics on this guy, especially this season, look horrific.

I don't know him either but I read he is a good skater. We will see.

 

[LOFIN]

Kakko does need to make giant improvements in his own game to take the next step. That said, I think he can be more effective in the Seattle system than with New York.

 

[kovazub94]

We got a movable TDL asset and 2 picks for a malcontent bust. I'm fine with it. Kakko is a mirage.

Based on what we heard of Drury’s pursuit of Borg I’m not sure they view him as movable TDL asset first. Yeah we him I see excess of 4 RHD including Mancini in the future but maybe the view is to keep him if he’s proven worthy and deal with this excess in due time if necessary (we know Schneider can play LD if needed)

 

[kovazub94]

Lias Andersson just wasn't that good. It was a pick a lot of people questioned at the time and it didn't work out. Obviously the whole situation with him wasn't handled well, but I don't think he makes it if he's picked by another team. LA is at least decent at developing players and they got him at age 22 and he topped out as a 4A player.

Kravtsov was a little bitch. He just didn't have the mental fortitude to make it as an NHL player and quite honestly I don't think he was that good, either. Rather, I think he was good enough to have an NHL career, but he wasn't as good as he thought he was, and he didn't want to put in the effort. Maybe he has since done that, but it seemed pretty clear he was only going to play in the US on his terms--which is not how it works.

Kakko and Lafreniere, open books. Kakko is a disappointment for me, I really thought he'd take off. He just never really looked particularly good. I mean he had games, and moments. For sure. But overall he was so bland. He probably should have spent time in the AHL early on but I'm not sure that would have really helped anything in the end.

Lafreniere I was hoping would take another step forward this year. As I said in another thread, though, it's hard to evaluate young players in a totally lost season. I think he has generally been fine this season and if some of the shit heads around him weren't pouting, he'd have closer to 30 points and we'd all be really excited about him.

Definitely can’t put Andersson & Kravtsov in the same bucket with Kakko & Lafreniere. The first two can be definitely put fully as organizational drafting mistake, the later were unquestionable NHL consensus, Kakko coming from a pretty bad draft class while Lafreniere’s class took longer to develop. I think in their both drafts COVID restrictions played a role

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's difficult to say. Andersson and Krav both got chances with other orgs. Both fell flat on their faces and were out of the NHL pretty soon after. Will have to wait and see what Kakko does. I do agree that NYR tried to cosmic brain something with all 3 players (4 including Laf) and spectacularly failed every time.

It should put a bright, hot spotlight on NYR's European scouting. 3 top10 picks in consecutive years that all busted - 2017, 18, and 19. f***ing sucks. To be fair though, that 1st round in Kakko's draft year just doesn't look like a good crop outside of like 2-3 players.

We also got stuck with some really crap draft years. Its not like we hadca chance at a McDavid. If NJ took KK and we took Hughes Im sure Hughes would have been fine. Getting Chytil in the Lias draft worked out well injuries aside.