Toggle sidebar

Proposal: [SEA/MTL] Guhle + Calgary 1st for Matty Beniers + 2nd (Toronto)

  • We sincerely apologize for the extended downtime. Our hosting provider, XenForo Cloud, encountered a major issue with their backup system, which unfortunately resulted in the loss of some critical data from the past year.

    What This Means for You:

    • If you created an account after March 2024, it no longer exists. You will need to sign up again to access the forum.
    • If you registered before March 2024 but changed your email, username, or password in the past year, those changes were lost. You’ll need to update your account details manually once you're logged in.
    • Threads and posts created within the last year have been restored.

    Our team is working with Xenforo Cloud to recover data using backups, sitemaps, and other available resources. We know this is frustrating, and we deeply regret the impact on our community. We are taking steps with Xenforo Cloud to ensure this never happens again. This is work in progress. Thank you for your patience and support as we work through this.

    In the meantime, feel free to join our Discord Server
Baksfamous112 said:
Are you implying that Beniers has lesser talent right now to play with than Suzuki did at the time because I don't think it's even remotely close. Suzuki was alone on an island during his 22 years old season. Not only is Beniers playing on a much better team filled with better talent than Suzuki did at the time but the season is not even over yet. Montreal had 5 players with 30+ points while Seattle currently has 9+ with 11 games left to play.

View attachment 998647

View attachment 998648
Click to expand...
That's a f***in stretch lol, "much better" yeah okay. Literally worse PPG on Seattle's team.

Man we'll really do anything to discredit Beniers huh. Obviously he's not as good Suzuki and no one has said that but he has the same potential and no, has not had the chance to play with anyone remotely close to Caufield's talent.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: zeeto and IWantSakicAsMyGM
Baksfamous112 said:
The length at which you went to do some insane mental gymnastic is impressive here. Well done
Click to expand...

How is it mental gymnastics? If you only have one car, your choice is made for you and that's the car that you do everything with. Every drive to work, every road trip, every everything. You don't even have to think about it, you just grab the keys and go, even if the gas tank is low. But if you have 3 or 4 cars, you can take the one with the full tank instead, or the silver one instead of the blue one. Or the older one you trust instead of the new one that's still not totally finished yet.

It's the same idea with hockey players. When there's no other remotely similar options on the roster, the best guy on the roster is going to be on the ice for all the best opportunities. We see it with superstars like MacKinnon as well as the best young player on a bad rebuilding team. When you've got a much more balanced attack with 4 or 5 guys at roughly the same level, none of them is going to get all the best opportunities, you can just go with the guy with the full tank, or the 21 year old instead of the 22 year old, or the older one you trust instead of the new one that's still not totally finished yet.
 
I don't really love this deal. Pass, but I get why Beniers would be a target. Seattle doesn't seem to need d-men either.
 
IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
How is it mental gymnastics? If you only have one car, your choice is made for you and that's the car that you do everything with. Every drive to work, every road trip, every everything. You don't even have to think about it, you just grab the keys and go, even if the gas tank is low. But if you have 3 or 4 cars, you can take the one with the full tank instead, or the silver one instead of the blue one. Or the older one you trust instead of the new one that's still not totally finished yet.

It's the same idea with hockey players. When there's no other remotely similar options on the roster, the best guy on the roster is going to be on the ice for all the best opportunities. We see it with superstars like MacKinnon as well as the best young player on a bad rebuilding team. When you've got a much more balanced attack with 4 or 5 guys at roughly the same level, none of them is going to get all the best opportunities, you can just go with the guy with the full tank, or the 21 year old instead of the 22 year old, or the older one you trust instead of the new one that's still not totally finished yet.
Click to expand...
That's wrong though. Players play off each other and offensive opportunities will happen a lot more often when skilled players play together 5v5 or PP.

Hockey isn't basketball, you need more than 1 skilled player on the ice at any given time to sustain any kind of offensive possession to open up lanes and finish. Up to 3 players can get a point off any given goal also.
 
MoneyManny said:
That's wrong though. Players play off each other and offensive opportunities will happen a lot more often when skilled players play together 5v5 or PP.

Hockey isn't basketball, you need more than 1 skilled player on the ice at any given time to sustain any kind of offensive possession to open up lanes and finish. Up to 3 players can get a point off any given goal also.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that it's easier to score with better linemates. That's why I pointed out that 22 year old Suzuki was playing with Anderson and Caufield, and 22 year old Beniers is playing with Schwartz and Kakko. Do you agree having the more skilled linemates probably helped Suzuki enough to account for difference in ES scoring? Or should we take it a step further and say Caufield probably also helped him score more on the PP than Bjorkstrand is helping Beniers?
 
Dead Coyote said:
That's a f***in stretch lol, "much better" yeah okay. Literally worse PPG on Seattle's team.

Man we'll really do anything to discredit Beniers huh. Obviously he's not as good Suzuki and no one has said that but he has the same potential and no, has not had the chance to play with anyone remotely close to Caufield's talent.
Click to expand...
Well, the guy I was responding to at first did say that and the Sakic guy tried to justify it.
IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
How is it mental gymnastics? If you only have one car, your choice is made for you and that's the car that you do everything with. Every drive to work, every road trip, every everything. You don't even have to think about it, you just grab the keys and go, even if the gas tank is low. But if you have 3 or 4 cars, you can take the one with the full tank instead, or the silver one instead of the blue one. Or the older one you trust instead of the new one that's still not totally finished yet.

It's the same idea with hockey players. When there's no other remotely similar options on the roster, the best guy on the roster is going to be on the ice for all the best opportunities. We see it with superstars like MacKinnon as well as the best young player on a bad rebuilding team. When you've got a much more balanced attack with 4 or 5 guys at roughly the same level, none of them is going to get all the best opportunities, you can just go with the guy with the full tank, or the 21 year old instead of the 22 year old, or the older one you trust instead of the new one that's still not totally finished yet.
Click to expand...
Suzuki finished the year with nearly 20 points on Caufield (20 years old rookie at the time) and nearly 30 points on the third highest scoring player on the Habs.

Beniers is middle of the pack in terms of production in Seattle despite all the offensive responsibilities he has. The best players rises. Beniers isn’t right now. He should be leading the team in points and he isn’t and that fact won’t change even if you spin it a 1000 different ways.

You said it yourself, put MacKinnon with a bunch of bums and he’s still going to grossly outproduce his teammates. That’s what Suzuki did and that’s what Beniers is unable to do.
 
As of now, sorry, Beniers has nowhere the development curve Suzuki's had.

And even when Suzuki had the likes of Harvey-Pinard, Pitlick and Ylonen on his line at the end of the 22-23 season, he was still producing at a high pace.

In fact he was even making those guys producing, so the comparison with Beniers doesn't stand.

And Suzuki was 23 back then, Beniers is actually 22.

Beniers represent a risk too, his development has flattened and he has a big contract he doesn't play up to.

But he's young and has potential.

So do Guhle..

You guys from Seattle speak like Guhle's worth is nothing and Beniers's worth is like if he was a 22 year old Crosby... but it's us Habs fans that are delusional...

Anyway...
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Bouboumaster, Doublechin, bcv and 1 other person
Baksfamous112 said:
Well, the guy I was responding to at first did say that and the Sakic guy tried to justify it.

Suzuki finished the year with nearly 20 points on Caufield (20 years old rookie at the time) and nearly 30 points on the third highest scoring player on the Habs.

Beniers is middle of the pack in terms of production in Seattle despite all the offensive responsibilities he has. The best players rises. Beniers isn’t right now. He should be leading the team in points and he isn’t and that fact won’t change even if you spin it a 1000 different ways.

You said it yourself, put MacKinnon with a bunch of bums and he’s still going to grossly outproduce his teammates. That’s what Suzuki did and that’s what Beniers is unable to do.
Click to expand...

Suzuki also finished the year with 15 more games played than Caufield, so that 20 point lead isn't exactly apples to apples. And, besides Suzuki playing all 82 games, only Romanov and Evans played more than 70. Dvorak and Gallagher only played 56 each.. Toffoli and Drouin didn't even play 40 games. Did Suzuki more than double their scoring because he's so much better, or because he played more than twice as many games? Does he get the same chances and score 61 points that year if everyone was healthier? I guess it's possible, but I don't think it's very likely.

And I agree the best players should rise, but it's also a lot easier to get to the top when you're the only thing rising than when you've got other guys trying to rise with you and guys who rose before to get through. MacKinnon didn't lead the Avs in scoring until his 4th season because Duchene kept getting opportunities and good linemates and all that, and didn't put up big numbers until after Duchene was traded. I don't think that's just a coincidence.

I'm pretty sure Caufield wasn't a bum in the 67 games he played that year. He was young, sure, but he's still clearly better than Kakko and Schwartz. Same with Gallagher, Drouin and Toffoli, for the games they played.
 
samsagat said:
Well, stats are telling another story.

As of now Seattle have a middle of the pack offense (213 gs = 14th) while having a subpar defense (232 ga = 26th).

Plus Seattle's LD is composed of :

Dunn
Oleksiak
Mahura
??

And there's nothing really good in the system...

Anyway... You're entitled to your opinion but it's always better to have an opinion based on facts than mere impressions ..
Click to expand...
Oh, go toss your lizards.

To reference Mark Twain: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Anyone who bothers to watch our games for a month will have no trouble discerning what our greatest need is right now.
 
IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
Suzuki also finished the year with 15 more games played than Caufield, so that 20 point lead isn't exactly apples to apples. And, besides Suzuki playing all 82 games, only Romanov and Evans played more than 70. Dvorak and Gallagher only played 56 each.. Toffoli and Drouin didn't even play 40 games. Did Suzuki more than double their scoring because he's so much better, or because he played more than twice as many games? Does he get the same chances and score 61 points that year if everyone was healthier? I guess it's possible, but I don't think it's very likely.

And I agree the best players should rise, but it's also a lot easier to get to the top when you're the only thing rising than when you've got other guys trying to rise with you and guys who rose before to get through. MacKinnon didn't lead the Avs in scoring until his 4th season because Duchene kept getting opportunities and good linemates and all that, and didn't put up big numbers until after Duchene was traded. I don't think that's just a coincidence.

I'm pretty sure Caufield wasn't a bum in the 67 games he played that year. He was young, sure, but he's still clearly better than Kakko and Schwartz. Same with Gallagher, Drouin and Toffoli, for the games they played.
Click to expand...
Are you implying that Beniers isn't getting offensive opportunities and therefor is the reason why he isn't producing? Because as I recall, he's been on PP1 for the entirety of the season and is getting prime offensive deployment at 5v5 as well.

By your own logic, Kakko is pacing for 54 points/82 games in Seattle. Schwartz is pacing for 47 points/82 games. Beniers is pacing for 45 points/82 games. Both Beniers linesmates are currently outproducing him despite Schwartz not getting PP1 minutes.

Caufield is now, but he wasn't back in the day.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom