Scotty Bowman's Top 100 Canadian Players
- Thread starter overpass
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Scotty Knows more about the game of hockey and its history more than anyone alive with the small exemption of Howie Meeker.Media people there's Red Fisher and Dick Irvin Jr who grew up in a hockey family and saw famous players go in and out of his house.On the french side there are numerous people but most who you don't know
redbull
Boss
- Mar 24, 2008
- 12,593
- 655
I don't know. The offensive dominance 99 had over his peers was pretty astounding. Even if he just refused to play in any other zone (which is not the case) he'd still be tough to argue against.
However you want to segment the ice and divide responsibilities, whatever measure you might have for toughness, defensive play, zone coverage - I find it impossible to account for the clear separation Gretzky had offensively. Much of which comes with measurement (goals, assists, points)
Watching the games, is there much difference in what Lidstrom does on the ice compared to say Ken Morrow (career length notwithstanding) in their own zone?
But watching Gretzky on the ice, against the best players in the world, even at 16 years old and since, it was incredibly obvious that he didn't belong there with the others.
I never saw Richard play live but if he's in the discussion, he must have been a pretty special player as well.
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
- 19,746
- 15,356
I was just looking through the magazine, and Bowman's list isn't particularly strange compared to the others. Even his placement of Crosby at 15 isn't an outlier, as at least two other guys had Crosby higher than that. Some of the other lists feature guys like Damphousse or Verbeek or Francis in the top 20.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Fire Sweeney
Registered User
jack mullet
@jackmullethockey
JackSlater
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2010
- 19,746
- 15,356
I'll take a shot at then when I get a chance. Some are... not pretty. Still, it gives an interesting opportunity to discuss how to rate players who are still in their primes like Crosby, Stamkos (on a few lists) and Doughty.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
You know, depending on "criteria", I could see Gretzky being ranked as low as 4th (he's my #1, though). Having said that, I can't think of a consistent line of reasoning that not only puts Richard ahead of Gretzky, but furthermore places Gretzky behind all of Orr, Howe, and Lemieux.
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
- 36,763
- 3,229
Its certainly a controversial ranking, and one that he really needs to explain. You dont just "drop a list" like that when your a highly respected individual, then just walk like its the Gospel According to Scotty.... Explain yourself Sir. Mebbe an email to the Black Hawks organization. He's still "Consulting" with them isnt he? Lets ask him. We could speculate on the reasons til the cows come home, and not just Gretzkys' 5th place seeding, but dozens more. rainman@hawks or some such address Im sure. Strikes me as being real tech savvy does that one.
overpass
Registered User
Terry Crisp's list
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Bobby Orr
3. Gordie Howe
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Jean Beliveau
6. Maurice Richard
7. Phil Esposito
8. Mark Messier
9. Bryan Trottier
10. Steve Yzerman
11. Paul Coffey
12. Guy Lafleur
13. Henri Richard
14. Yvan Counoyer
15. Bobby Hull
16. Martin Brodeur
17. Jacques Plante
18. Raymond Bourque
19. Joe Sakic
20. Ron Francis
21. Red Kelly
22. Doug Harvey
23. Mike Bossy
24. Frank Mahovlich
25. Bobby Clarke
26. Terry Sawchuk
27. Marcel Dionne
28. Larry Robinson
29. Scott Niedermayer
30. Denis Potvin
31. Denis Savard
32. Joe Nieuwendyk
33. Doug Gilmour
34. Brendan Shanahan
35. Jacques Lemaire
36. Steve Shutt
37. Luc Robitaille
38. Ken Dryden
39. Bernard Geoffrion
40. Scott Stevens
41. Dave Keon
42. Dickie Moore
43. Sidney Crosby
44. Serge Savard
45. Kevin Lowe
46. Guy Lapointe
47. Patrick Roy
48. Turk Broda
49. Howie Morenz
50. Alex Delvecchio
51. Gilbert Perreault
52. Tim Horton
53. Vincent Damphousse
54. Jacques Laperriere
55. Jean-Claude Tremblay
56. Ted Lindsay
57. Johnny Bucyk
58. Glenn Hall
59. Mark Recchi
60. Rod Brind'Amour
61. Pierre Turgeon
62. Adam Oates
63. Dave Andreychuk
64. Claude Lemieux
65. Norm Ullman
66. Rodrigue Gilbert
67. Al MacInnis
68. Larry Murphy
69. Claude Provost
70. Jean Ratelle
71. Johnny Bower
72. Lanny McDonald
73. Jarome Iginla
74. Clark Gillies
75. Brad Park
76. Billy Smith
77. Gump Worsley
78. Rob Blake
79. Bernie Federko
80. Bob Gainey
81. Theoren Fleury
82. Darryl Sittler
83. Grant Fuhr
84. Dino Ciccarelli
85. Chris Pronger
86. Eric Lindros
87. Guy Carbonneau
88. Bernard Parent
89. Glenn Anderson
90. Bill Barber
91. Michel Goulet
92. Eddie Shore
93. Dale Hawerchuk
94. Wendel Clark
95. Cam Neely
96. Mike Gartner
97. Ted Kennedy
98. Bert Olmstead
99. George Armstrong
100. Tony Esposito
Highest on:
Phil Esposito
Yzerman
Trottier
Kelly
Cournoyer
Shanahan
Lemaire
Nieuwendyk
Shutt
Damphousse
Gilbert
Lowe
Brind'Amour
Laperriere
Lowest on:
Roy
Perreault
Goulet
Anderson
Neely
Last edited:
That would be very hard, at least Red said that he wouldn't rate any guys he didn't see so his omissions should be taken with a grain of salt.
Personally Garrett is a worse commentator than he was goalie but Bowman's list is horrible too.
I think that if the lists came out with no names attached to them both Bowman and Garrett would lead the pack.
The respect factor for Bowman seems to be preventing guys from publicly saying anything bad about his list here (compared to how it would be received if one of the not so favorite posters put up the same list.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
I think Coach Crisp's and my top-5 match...
Another vote for Wendel Clark. And look at Claude Provost, huh...defensive forward giving another some major love there...
Another vote for Wendel Clark. And look at Claude Provost, huh...defensive forward giving another some major love there...
It's very early in his career but he was captain of a cup team and arguably was the best Canadian at the 10 Olympics.
His 1st 5 years have been quite impressive, throw in two WC's in his teens and there are worse guys on the list don't you think?
Morgoth Bauglir
Master Of The Fates Of Arda
overpass
Registered User
pappyline
Registered User
These lists are good for a laugh. Crisp has the anointed top 4 but after that it is all over the board. Hull at 15 behind Henri Richard and Cournoyer is a hoot. George Armstrong is on both lists!!! It appears neither has much knowledge of the older eras. Legends like Shore & Morenz make it but no Bill Cook, Charlie Conacher etc. They both fall for the legend of the Rocket.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Crisp was Calgary's coach for a long time. Obviously scarred from the Battle of Alberta.
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Bobby Hull 1 spot behind Yvon Cournoyer is the craziest thing I've seen on either list.
overpass
Registered User
Remember it's NHL-only, so Hull's WHA time is officially not considered and maybe unofficially held against him.
It's almost worse to see Shore in the 90s than missing from the list entirely. In any case Shore would absolutely hate being ranked the 92nd best at anything, let alone playing hockey.
Lemaire was never a 1st or second team allstar played in two allstar game.Never had a 100 pts season averaged less than a point a game in his career.Lafleur led the team in assists 8 times as a winger.Yes he's a hall of famer but borderline.Jacques was good in playoffs and showed up in big games.But if were to name the top 20 centerman is Jacques on the list?How is Lafleur's plus minus so much better than Lemaire?You could argue the best centerman was Peter Maholvich for 1 season but Scotty did not like him
pappyline
Registered User
Well, anyone with any common sense at all, would rank Hull's 15 NHL years higher against Cournoyers 15 NHL years. In fact Hull's NHL years were good enough to rank above any of the guys from 6 to 14.
Crisp should be one of those guys who gives homage to the WHA & Hull as that certainly added years to his career and put money in his pocket.
Ignoring the WHA makes these lists even more worthless. Bad enough ignoring WHA accomplishments but then it also ignores the weakening of the NHL during the 70's because of the WHA.
Last edited:
reckoning
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2005
- 7,122
- 1,519
Picked up the magazine when I was buying some stuff at the Quickie today. I'd have to agree some of the recent comments that Bowman's list is probably the best of the bunch. The most bizarre thing that caught my eye was John Garrett having Niedermayer ahead of all other defencemen except for Orr.
It would have been better to call it the best players of the last 60 years, as votes for pre-1950 players were few and far between. Red Fisher was just the only one who admitted that he was ignoring the early years, but they all did it.
Players who are often derided on this board as "compilers" did very well. Francis, Gartner and Turgeon finished much higher than they would here. Vincent Damphousse appeared on most of the lists, and he probably wouldn't even be on my radar if I was making one. FWIW, Bowman had those players rated lower than anyone else.
I wouldn't recommend spending the $10 on the magazine. The articles on each of the players read like a brief wikipedia-style career summary heavy on stats and accomplishments but lacking any insight.
It would have been better to call it the best players of the last 60 years, as votes for pre-1950 players were few and far between. Red Fisher was just the only one who admitted that he was ignoring the early years, but they all did it.
Players who are often derided on this board as "compilers" did very well. Francis, Gartner and Turgeon finished much higher than they would here. Vincent Damphousse appeared on most of the lists, and he probably wouldn't even be on my radar if I was making one. FWIW, Bowman had those players rated lower than anyone else.
I wouldn't recommend spending the $10 on the magazine. The articles on each of the players read like a brief wikipedia-style career summary heavy on stats and accomplishments but lacking any insight.
You could be right but Hull played a lot with Makita and were together on pp.He's better and more important than Yvon.But one question Why did hull only win 1 cup?They had 5 hall of famers including one of the greatest goalies in Glen Hall
