Scoring Woes - Lack of Scoring Talent or Coaching?

[Neighborhood Coyote]

Personally, I don't think Minnesota is so much better than the Yotes that they should win 7 out of 8 games... especially as lopsided as it has been. Then, on top of that, the Yotes have other teams that seem to have their number every time as well.

100% that points to coaching being an issue in my mind.

 

[Mosby]

I think even with no roster changes at all, we'd improve simply by changing the coach.

I don't think there is any chance of regression with a coaching change.

In other words, I can think of all kinds of reasons to change the coach, but I can't think any as to why he should stay.

 

[cobra427]

Coaching needs to be fixed first to make sure we are getting the most out of the players. Once that is fixed, we can better gauge the players.

 

[Mosby]

I don't think Boudreau is a good match for Armstrong, but I think a coach like that could pull an extra 10 points out of many of our players, particularly the forwards.

 

[RABBIT]

That was my point. I agree with you.

I read your post wrong

 

[rt]

I read your post wrong

It was a lazy post that could have been interpreted either way. lol

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

Coaching is the bigger problem, even though we still have 2 4th lines every game.

I think another problem is the fact that we have twinks on our roster that are more worried about breaking a nail, than getting physical.

Who, on this roster, could stand up to Ryan Reaves, when we play Vegas? Not even "The Sheriff" Lawson Crouse will do anything.
Why do player throw helmets at our players faces? Because our players are f***ing p***yes and nobody respects them! Probably stems from terrible coaching and locker room culture.



Final: Avalanche 9
Coyotes 1

RT: Just gotta grind it out and stay sticky our there boys, the bounces will eventually start going our way. Flush this one and move on to the next one....I'm proud of the way we battled out ther......(gets interrupted by screaming man/child in corner locker)
Christian Fisher: BUT HEY COACH I SCORED MY FIRST GOAL OF THE SEASON TONIGHT! HAHAHA DID YOU SEE ME WHIFF ON A PASS AND THEN FALL OVER, KNOCKING THE GOALIE OUT OF POSITION FOR AN EMPTY NET TAPIN.

Clayton Keller: He's right coach, focus on the positives of this game!

RT: That"s the kind of leadership and attitude I'm looking for guys! Alright, I'll order everyone pizza and ice cream!

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Yea, no. Our traded away players, from Tikhonov to Strome to Domi have been, to be kind, less than stellar under “better” coaches. It’s the players. It’s the GM performance. The coach be damned, without a good GM a team goes nowhere.

 

[Jakey53]

Yea, no. Our traded away players, from Tikhonov to Strome to Domi have been, to be kind, less than stellar under “better” coaches. It’s the players. It’s the GM performance. The coach be damned, without a good GM a team goes nowhere.

All of the above.

 

[RABBIT]

Thank you for the responses to the poll and the thread. So there’s something I find extremely interesting about this. I respect all of the posters on this forum and think you all have great insight on this team. I don’t think you need a degree in journalism to be a great hockey mind. I would say that all of us who participated in this poll are seasoned hockey fans that can identify system failures vs. player struggles.

Then there are journalists that professionally take a “non-biased” approach (if you will) when analyzing their subject.

It seems a lot of journalists believe that Rick Tocchet would have much better results with better players, but most of them don’t watch the Coyotes as much as we do, and may be a tad bit influenced by the “old boys club.” Then we have our own beat writer, Craig. I pay Craig monthly, I have no qualms with him, and I’m actually thankful that somebody takes the time to cover this team. With that said, I wholeheartedly disagree with him when he plays devils advocate for Tocc, and by the results of this poll, it seems he is actually one of the few that watch this team regularly that believe Tocchet is getting the raw deal with this roster (and the ones before.)

The next time Craig has a monthly mail bag, I’m going to submit the results of this pole to him and see what he feels about a good majority of diehard fans disagreeing with him.

 

[BUX7PHX]

The easy answer is a little bit of both. As good as Chychrun has been in producing points, he may have a significantly higher number if he could hit the net more often.

But, I think it is clear that this is coaching not getting us into positions to maintain offense. As an example, we are 14th in the NHL in shooting percentage at 9.6%. But we are 30th OA in total shots taken, even though only 6 teams have played the same number of games or more. How sad is it that Vancouver has 92 fewer shots than us on the season, despite playing 8 fewer games?

 

[XX]

The next time Craig has a monthly mail bag, I’m going to submit the results of this pole to him and see what he feels about a good majority of diehard fans disagreeing with him.

He has stated that he believes there's no substantive criticism to be had of Tocchet. Thumbing his nose at the fans is also one of his favorite activities. I don't think it will go anywhere.

Craig does not give any consideration to arguments that say Tocchet is anything other than a top notch coach, so the results are solely reflective of the talent level of the roster in his mind. He's just not open to being objective about this.

 

[Neighborhood Coyote]

He has stated that he believes there's no substantive criticism to be had of Tocchet. Thumbing his nose at the fans is also one of his favorite activities. I don't think it will go anywhere.

Craig does not give any consideration to arguments that say Tocchet is anything other than a top notch coach, so the results are solely reflective of the talent level of the roster in his mind. He's just not open to being objective about this.

Wish he would remember that the fans are the ones who are helping to pay his bills and not Tocchet. (That we know of)

Not that I think he should just agree with anything the fans want.

It's more that I think he should not thumb his nose at them and decide not take any merit out of what MANY die hard fans say. If there is a significant amount of fans (not just casual fans, mind you) that have an issue with Tocchet... there must be some fire to that smoke. If he is really a good reporter or writer, he would investigate those claims and either prove or disprove them with something to back it up.

 

[rt]

They need a poll with a slider option: "from 0-100 how much is coaching, assuming the rest is lack of talent?"

Like:
A. 01-24%
B. 25-49%
C. 50-74%
D. 75-99%
???

Gotta think of the 33 votes in this poll, it's like:

A=03
B=12
C=14
D=04

..just a hunch

 

[cobra427]

Yea, no. Our traded away players, from Tikhonov to Strome to Domi have been, to be kind, less than stellar under “better” coaches. It’s the players. It’s the GM performance. The coach be damned, without a good GM a team goes nowhere.

Domi had 70 points his first year away from us as a C and Strome had 50+ points first year away from us. It seems to me like they got a boost in another system. Martinook, I believe excelled as well. That is 3 players that did better the first year they were gone from RT. We bring in Galchenyuk, he gets worse, Kessel, he gets worse, and Hall was just ok not great under RT. Goose/Demers/OEL/Brassard didn't get better under RT, OEL is worse. Chych/DVO/Garland have improved, but they are young, don't think its because of RT.

I agree it starts with a solid GM to build the roster, no doubt Chayka has cost us. But, when evaluating a coach, I ask, Is he getting the most out of his roster or is the sum more than the parts? For RT I think he has proven the answer is No, the sum is less than the parts. RT has way more talent then Tip, and I thought Tip got the most out of his roster even when we were in the 70-85 point range.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I was saddened when Tippett left. I don’t care if RT is renewed or not. We only need a placeholder coach until talent has matured in Tucson and is ready for the show. At that point we need a good coach if RT hadn’t been sacked sooner.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

My issue with the whole “there’s no talent” thing is didn’t Tocchet have a hand in personnel decisions with Chayka this whole time? We made a huge trade to get Kessel just because Tocchet likes him so I feel like Tocchet is also partly responsible for how shit our roster has been

 

[Jakey53]

I was saddened when Tippett left. I don’t care if RT is renewed or not. We only need a placeholder coach until talent has matured in Tucson and is ready for the show. At that point we need a good coach if RT hadn’t been sacked sooner.

Talent in Tucson? That's the problem. We don't have much in the cupboard to help the group we have. We need stability so you won't see BA signing a coach for two years.

 

[SpaceCoyote]

Really do think that Armstrong torpedoed our PK when he let several PK forwards walk or traded when only bringing back failed experiments in Hunt, Hayden, and Caggiula. Not to mention it clearly impacted our lack luster 5v5 play. On the other than hand, it's illogical to purely blame a roster for the events that have unfolded this season. To use a similar counter argument expressed here, has a forward ever been signed here and then alternatively had their best season of their career? Not since RT has taken over, however; Duclair, Domi, Strome, and Martinook all have done this since leaving this team.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The next time Craig has a monthly mail bag, I’m going to submit the results of this pole to him and see what he feels about a good majority of diehard fans disagreeing with him.

Craig's response, guaranteed: "So glad that we can hear the sad whining from a local mom's basement. It's always amusing to hear from people who have no connection to real life!"