OT: Sci-Fi and Fantasy Thread - SPOILERS Part Three

[bauer]

The original was terrible, and I think I know why. Mel Brooks understood Westerns, horror films, Hitchcock thrillers and historical epics - that's why he was able to satirize them successfully with Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein, High Anxiety and History of the World - he took our expectations and subverted them. He didn't understand Star Wars at all, and because of that, his satire was too broad and unfocused. Like "Pizza Face" and "Barf" just had nothing to do with anything, so they came off as lame gross-outs. The space camper had no tie-in to anything either - it was just a random vehicle switch. There was room for funny Jewish jokes about the princess and Yoda, but because he didn't tie them back in any way to the actual Star Wars characters (i.e., by goofing on the way Yoda speaks instead of just his appearance), they just sat there. It failed massively, especially when you consider that (most of) the rest of his work is some of the best comedy we have ever seen.

i do think pizza face and barf are some of the weaker scenes in the movie, but i feel there's far more that works than doesn't. every scene with Rick Moranis is hilarious. without him the movie takes a massive hit. i'm glad they got him back but i have very little hope for the sequel. that style of comedy just doesn't really work anymore.

 

[Magua]

The original was terrible, and I think I know why. Mel Brooks understood Westerns, horror films, Hitchcock thrillers and historical epics - that's why he was able to satirize them successfully with Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein, High Anxiety and History of the World - he took our expectations and subverted them. He didn't understand Star Wars at all, and because of that, his satire was too broad and unfocused. Like "Pizza Face" and "Barf" just had nothing to do with anything, so they came off as lame gross-outs. The space camper had no tie-in to anything either - it was just a random vehicle switch. There was room for funny Jewish jokes about the princess and Yoda, but because he didn't tie them back in any way to the actual Star Wars characters (i.e., by goofing on the way Yoda speaks instead of just his appearance), they just sat there. It failed massively, especially when you consider that (most of) the rest of his work is some of the best comedy we have ever seen.

Bingo. I’m also someone who shrugs at Spaceballs, while cherishing Mel Brooks. The best parodies are love letters. Can add Silent Movie to that list. Young Frankenstein is a better Frankenstein movie than the original James Whale ones.

Similar thing with Airplane! and Naked Gun and Top Secret. Or Monty Python or Edgar Wright. They clearly LOVE those genres and know them intimately. If you don’t like the genre, it veers into over-simplistic shlocky mocking. We can also get into the artistry: the best parodies have the same level of technique — they’re not SNL skits.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Knocked out another decent chunk of House of Chains, thoughts below.

Spoiler: House of Chains

Hoooo boy, things keep escalating.


First off, Bidithal has jumped right onto the top of my shit list. f*** that guy with a rusty harpoon, and Silgar too for participating in that nonsense.


Sha'ik is in a pretty precarious spot, everybody around her has their own schemes, and only Heboric (who just had a really weird journey after eating too much weird tea) is on her side, and even then, I'm not entirely sure where his loyalties lie.

Tavore is also not doing too well. So far as she knows, the Empress doesn't really trust her, and she was supposed to play second fiddle behind Dujek, which isn't happening now due to the events in Memories of Ice. Still, she has to march out into Raraku to fight the Whirlwind.


Krull and Onrack have the potential to be another all time bromance. They just escaped after the ritual with the Tiste Liosan (more f***ing Tiste! How many of these f***s are there lol?)

Karsa continues to be a force of nature. Ignorance, honed into a weapon as Aramala put it. He's learned the truth about the Teblor gods 'just' being some beat up T'Lan Imass, and has decided to become the champion of the House of Chains, which has the potential to be disastrous. His run-in with Mappo and Icharium was hilarious. "He broke my sword!" Shit is gonna go down if/when he runs into them again.


Kalam has been taking a beating. He just managed to barely take out an ancient demon, and got 'rescued' Iskaral Pust, which is a fate nobody deserves.


Apsalar and Cutter managed to help fight off the Edur attack on the Throne of Shadow, with the help of Cotillion and Traveler, who I'm very intrigued by. Darist put up one hell of a last stand in that fight.

I think that's most of the major revelations. Every time I think I'm getting a handle on things another layer of the onion is exposed. I'm just trying to enjoy the ride.


And f*** Bidithal.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Bingo. I’m also someone who shrugs at Spaceballs, while cherishing Mel Brooks. The best parodies are love letters. Can add Silent Movie to that list. Young Frankenstein is a better Frankenstein movie than the original James Whale ones.

Similar thing with Airplane! and Naked Gun and Top Secret. Or Monty Python or Edgar Wright. They clearly LOVE those genres and know them intimately. If you don’t like the genre, it veers into over-simplistic shlocky mocking. We can also get into the artistry: the best parodies have the same level of technique — they’re not SNL skits.

Galaxy Quest is one of the better Star Trek movies, tbh.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Just finished up House of Chains.


Jesus f***ing Christ. Props where they're due, that was incredible, but is Erikson going to insist on tearing my heart out during the climax of all of these books? I'm already traumatized, Steve. You don't have to keep twisting the knife.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The original was terrible, and I think I know why. Mel Brooks understood Westerns, horror films, Hitchcock thrillers and historical epics - that's why he was able to satirize them successfully with Blazing Saddles, Young Frankenstein, High Anxiety and History of the World - he took our expectations and subverted them. He didn't understand Star Wars at all, and because of that, his satire was too broad and unfocused. Like "Pizza Face" and "Barf" just had nothing to do with anything, so they came off as lame gross-outs. The space camper had no tie-in to anything either - it was just a random vehicle switch. There was room for funny Jewish jokes about the princess and Yoda, but because he didn't tie them back in any way to the actual Star Wars characters (i.e., by goofing on the way Yoda speaks instead of just his appearance), they just sat there. It failed massively, especially when you consider that (most of) the rest of his work is some of the best comedy we have ever seen.

A lot of what you say is true. But it still has moments.

The intro scene of the ship going by endlessly with all the inanely elaborate and pointless greebling is maybe my favorite, because that's a fantastic shot straight into the bow of basically every space movie, and remains as valid now as it was at release. The Empire as a dumb bureaucracy with shitty management that has its head up its ass made that tie first, and it's a common joke and reference now; hell, even canon SW is basically absorbing the "we are just a shitty toxic sinister office environment" thing. The point of the Millenium Falcon was that it was supposed to be shabby and lived-in; Lucas' whole take on the universe was that it should feel like that, so the shitty camper makes sense there, but I think it's a bad sign that this gag has to carry so much weight. And of course, the takedown on the marketing focus over filmmaking is on point.

Otherwise...yeah. It isn't like the other satires or his movies in general. It's a series of one-off riffs on SW and gags that aren't very connected and don't deliver any kind of grander payoff. A lot of them are really good in that way, sure, but it doesn't hit like a great Brooks film does.

Moranis does a LOT to carry it. It probably flops completely without him.

 

[freakydallas13]

Just finished up House of Chains.


Jesus f***ing Christ. Props where they're due, that was incredible, but is Erikson going to insist on tearing my heart out during the climax of all of these books? I'm already traumatized, Steve. You don't have to keep twisting the knife.

Spoiler: HoC Spoilers

So many people say they don't like Felisin as a character and it blows my mind how people do not feel for her.

That final moment between her and Tavore was heart breaking.

Gamet's end also affected me more than it should have.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Spoiler: HoC Spoilers

So many people say they don't like Felisin as a character and it blows my mind how people do not feel for her.

That final moment between her and Tavore was heart breaking.

Gamet's end also affected me more than it should have.

Spoiler: House of Chains

Felisin is one of the better written characters in the series, and quite possibly one of my all time favorites. What are people expecting from a teenage girl who gets banished into slavery by her own sister, then repeatedly raped? Such a tragic arc. Right up there with Oedipus. Nearly everything she went through was totally unnecessary, and that's how she dies? I just hope Tavore never learns the truth.

Karsa's arc, on the other hand, holy moly. I don't even know what to say. He absolutely is one of my favorite characters, and I cannot wait to see what he does next. His change from the beginning to what he became at the end was subtle, gradual, and totally earned. So many memorable moments along the way. I think the highlight was him taking out the Deragoths, but I could easily justify another half dozen.

Come to think of it, how he handled Bidithal was probably peak Karsa. Ripping his junk off and stuffing down his throat was exactly what he deserved. Then even Hood joins in on the fun. It doesn't take the sting out of Felisin's end, but it was something positive, at least.

The hug between Fiddler/Kalam/Ben was the purest thing ever. The Bridgeburners ascending is interseting, I'm also looking forward to finding out what that actually entails.

Gamet was another tragic character. I hope he and the ghost lady with beautiful blue eyes are out there having hot ghost sex all the time.

Onrack/Trull cemented themselves as one of my all time favorite bromances, and they may not even make my top 5 from Malazan lol. Man this series is something else.


Iskaral is the dude I absolutely love to hate. The scenes with him and his wife were peak comedy, and provided some much needed levity.


Crokus and Apsalar. Again, I'm lost for words. I get the feeling they are not going to have a happy ending.

Really, I get the feeling MOST of the above characters won't get a happy ending. I'll probably read something a bit lighter before I try and tackle Midnight Tides.

 

[Lord Defect]

Spoiler: House of Chains

Felisin is one of the better written characters in the series, and quite possibly one of my all time favorites. What are people expecting from a teenage girl who gets banished into slavery by her own sister, then repeatedly raped? Such a tragic arc. Right up there with Oedipus. Nearly everything she went through was totally unnecessary, and that's how she dies? I just hope Tavore never learns the truth.

Karsa's arc, on the other hand, holy moly. I don't even know what to say. He absolutely is one of my favorite characters, and I cannot wait to see what he does next. His change from the beginning to what he became at the end was subtle, gradual, and totally earned. So many memorable moments along the way. I think the highlight was him taking out the Deragoths, but I could easily justify another half dozen.

Come to think of it, how he handled Bidithal was probably peak Karsa. Ripping his junk off and stuffing down his throat was exactly what he deserved. Then even Hood joins in on the fun. It doesn't take the sting out of Felisin's end, but it was something positive, at least.

The hug between Fiddler/Kalam/Ben was the purest thing ever. The Bridgeburners ascending is interseting, I'm also looking forward to finding out what that actually entails.

Gamet was another tragic character. I hope he and the ghost lady with beautiful blue eyes are out there having hot ghost sex all the time.

Onrack/Trull cemented themselves as one of my all time favorite bromances, and they may not even make my top 5 from Malazan lol. Man this series is something else.


Iskaral is the dude I absolutely love to hate. The scenes with him and his wife were peak comedy, and provided some much needed levity.


Crokus and Apsalar. Again, I'm lost for words. I get the feeling they are not going to have a happy ending.

Really, I get the feeling MOST of the above characters won't get a happy ending. I'll probably read something a bit lighter before I try and tackle Midnight Tides.

I might actually like reading your recaps than the actual books. It’s almost like reading it a second time with a fresh brain. We’ve been pretty spot I. The whole time, but for the life of me I cannot remember who Gamet is. Is he a fist?

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

I might actually like reading your recaps than the actual books. It’s almost like reading it a second time with a fresh brain. We’ve been pretty spot I. The whole time, but for the life of me I cannot remember who Gamet is. Is he a fist?

He was head of the Paran house guard in Gardens of the Moon. By House of Chains, he's been made a Fist by Tavore, much to his chagrin.

 

[Lord Defect]

He was head of the Paran house guard in Gardens of the Moon. By House of Chains, he's been made a Fist by Tavore, much to his chagrin.

Oooooo yeah. That guy

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Oooooo yeah. That guy

Lmao I get it. Just about every time the POV switched to a character I haven't seen in a while I have to stop for a second and think "Okay, who the f*** is this? Who are they with? Where in the world/warrens are they? And what in the unholy name of Hood's balls on an iron skillet are they even doing?"

 

[Lord Defect]

Lmao I get it. Just about every time the POV switched to a character I haven't seen in a while I have to stop for a second and think "Okay, who the f*** is this? Who are they with? Where in the world/warrens are they? And what in the unholy name of Hood's balls on an iron skillet are they even doing?"

There’s like 5 pairs of characters that have very similar names to each other.

 

[Lord Defect]

I can’t remember if this is the movie thread or not.
We saw 28 years later tonight. The wife told me yesterday that it wasn’t getting good reviews.
I’m not sure why. I really enjoyed it. The wife went into it thinking she was going she was going to get a decent nap in. She would up enjoying it, and crying at some parts she was so invested.