I didn't watch a ton, he seemed OK, but he was on a tunnel vision rant so I moved on. Think he was more looking to push a decisive issue to get interaction going in the comment section then actually espousing an actual opinion.
Confirmed with Link: Schmid and Holtz traded to VGK for Paul Cotter and 2025 3rd rounder
- Thread starter NJDevs26
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Barry Tallackson
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2014
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Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
but Markstrom is the much better player
last 3 years total goals saved above expected:
Markstrom: 21.4
Thompson: 5.3
Normal Devil
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2014
- 1,511
- 1,185
Yeah, I think Devils feel Markstrom is still an elite goalie in this league. We'll see if they are right.
Raw numbers are swayed by games played. Thompson was a Rookie that played all of 19 games 3 years ago. Need to see rates.
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
2023-24: Markstrom 0.29/game, Thompson 0.104/game
2022-23: Markstrom -0.055/game, Thompson 0.003/game
2021-22: Markstrom 0.175/game, Thompson 0.033/game
Amongst NJ fwd's Holtz was dead last in penalties drawn rate last year.
Also dead last in takeaways/60. Just about a 2-1 giveaway-takeaway ratio.
2nd to last in blocked shots/60. (toffoli was worse)
Thompson better the year prior.
Markstrom was better in 21-22 but Thompson was a lightly used rookie.
Have to give Markstrom extra credit for being a workhorse though, which contributes to the large overall discrepancy.
Also dead last in takeaways/60. Just about a 2-1 giveaway-takeaway ratio.
2nd to last in blocked shots/60. (toffoli was worse)
So Markstrom was better this past season.2023-24: Markstrom 0.29/game, Thompson 0.104/game
2022-23: Markstrom -0.055/game, Thompson 0.003/game
2021-22: Markstrom 0.175/game, Thompson 0.033/game
Thompson better the year prior.
Markstrom was better in 21-22 but Thompson was a lightly used rookie.
Have to give Markstrom extra credit for being a workhorse though, which contributes to the large overall discrepancy.
FinnishDevil
Registered User
I dont feel like we got fleeced on this deal.
Holtz probably had very minimal value around the league. I assume if he was available, teams would be offering about a 3rd round pick. So theres that. He might become a 30 goal scorer or he might not even make the Vegas line up. It was not gonna work here and his usage the past couple years probably killed any little value he had, but clearly Fitz disliked him so he had no future here. High pick wasted but nothing you can do about that anymore.
Schmid was fourth on our goalie chart and it was beneficial for both parties to go separate ways. They just signed Malek who might be coming over and Brennan and Poulter need ice time. Daws is still there. I think Akira becomes a legit 1B/backup goalie in this league sooner or later, but he didnt have much value either. And we got a player who we can use in our bottom 6.
Holtz for a 3rd
Akira for a bottom 6 player on cheap deal for 2 yrs
It is what it is. They never had crazy value to start with.
Holtz probably had very minimal value around the league. I assume if he was available, teams would be offering about a 3rd round pick. So theres that. He might become a 30 goal scorer or he might not even make the Vegas line up. It was not gonna work here and his usage the past couple years probably killed any little value he had, but clearly Fitz disliked him so he had no future here. High pick wasted but nothing you can do about that anymore.
Schmid was fourth on our goalie chart and it was beneficial for both parties to go separate ways. They just signed Malek who might be coming over and Brennan and Poulter need ice time. Daws is still there. I think Akira becomes a legit 1B/backup goalie in this league sooner or later, but he didnt have much value either. And we got a player who we can use in our bottom 6.
Holtz for a 3rd
Akira for a bottom 6 player on cheap deal for 2 yrs
It is what it is. They never had crazy value to start with.
In some way yes, but not an overly similar player.
Cotter does play a much cleaner game as I note above, not a ton of penalties, and a good takeaway-giveaway ratio. Doesn't get near the sog's that Wood did though.
Mr Bojanglez
Registered User
I think this is a really good way to look at it. Is Holtz worth a second? Is Potter worth a second? That's probably where they're at.
Schmid for a 3rd is fine.
I think many of us are just upset that Holtz is in this situation. Right or wrong, fair or not. 4 years in we were not expecting our first round pick to be where he is.
I still had hope for Holtz if he got some playing time. But fact is - coaches are paid to analyze players in a way i could never imagine. They see things we don't (including stuff not just in the games).
Plus - i think our roster is better now because of this trade. Based on both players career so far - Potter should be more valuable to us than Holtz at this moment. I hope Holtz proves us wrong.
Yeah there’s no question Holtz had little value around the league. He hadn’t had a truly impressive season since he was 19 years old in the AHL.
And we’ve seen the last few days that goalies don’t get the returns people think.
But i think the biggest reason people are frustrated with the return is the lack of familiarity with Cotter. I’m forecasting a lot of Shaq “I wasn’t familiar with your game” posts by the end of the year.
And we’ve seen the last few days that goalies don’t get the returns people think.
But i think the biggest reason people are frustrated with the return is the lack of familiarity with Cotter. I’m forecasting a lot of Shaq “I wasn’t familiar with your game” posts by the end of the year.
Mr Bojanglez
Registered User
Plus Thompson currently only has 1 year on his contract. Then we are right back where we were. At least Markstrom kicks the can down the street 2 years.
People point to Muk over Holtz in that Meier deal.
But I wonder if Sharks also preferred Zetterlund over Holtz?
In terms of real time usage, Devils certainly preferred to play Z over Holtz, was Fitz still hoping Holtz would develop? Did he think he could use him in another package later? Or did the Sharks just prefer Zetterlund?
But I wonder if Sharks also preferred Zetterlund over Holtz?
In terms of real time usage, Devils certainly preferred to play Z over Holtz, was Fitz still hoping Holtz would develop? Did he think he could use him in another package later? Or did the Sharks just prefer Zetterlund?
How are we comparing Holtz to Tedenby? For one thing, name me one single season Tedenbust hit ten goals let alone come close to twenty.
Alex Holtz has almost, actually nothing to do with Mattias Tedenby. This is just coping since Fitz made another questionable move.
Sure, Schmid should have been moved.
Holtz should have been moved if this organization for whatever reason never wanted to play him.
You should get more for those two players than a bottom six player. Once again, this is horrible asset management.
BomaLightDevils
Registered User
They did get more than that. They got a 3rd round pick in the deal also. This is one problem people are having with evaluating the deal.
Anyway, I'd argue that Tedenby's first 31* games in the NHL were more impressive than anything Holtz did, but it's splitting hairs - Holtz will have a longer career and is a better player, and if he goes overseas he will be a dominant scorer in the SHL or KHL. I suspect he ends up there long before he is 30.
* Tedenby's famous 'go for a walk' 2 goal game against Carolina was his 31st game.
Devils Trap
Registered User
Speed, Bottom 6 production and above all else he is the single most physical player the team has.
230 hits last year, its like 2.5x more then any player we have had
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
I wouldn't doubt for one second that they preferred Zetterlund over Holtz. Probably a harder gauge though because I doubt both Mookie and Holtz would have been offered even if the Devils kept Zetterlund.
JimEIV
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- Feb 19, 2003
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Better Call Sal
Salnalysis
Man, I loved Tedenby. 
Bratt is what we all wish Tedenby would have become.
Bratt is what we all wish Tedenby would have become.
So then the Devils hoped they could turn Holtz around at that point.
At the time the Devils didn't love Holtz's game though.
But certainly possible that this past season, not just from Holtz, but the whole team, led Fitz to say a soft player like Holtz needed to go.
Not much of a highlight reel, but maybe has some skill. Also looks like he can play his off wing.
Forge
Blissfully Mediocre
I think that's the default setting for mot teams, tbh. Particularly for early picks. Teams don't really give up on top 10ish prospects super early unless it's in a package for an established nhl player (think adam boqvist in the seth jones trade). At the very least, teams tend to keep them around through their waiver eligibility and give them the chance to turn their career around.
If they had moved him in a deal different deal before last year, it may have returned more, but probably not enough for people not to rip Fitz apart for giving up on a former 7oa. If they had traded him before last season for like pick 28 in the draft, I think people would have been unhappy for moving off him before really giving him a chance at the NHL level. Now they did give him a chance, he wasn't impressive, the value was in the garbage and people are also going to be unhappy. I'm not sure there was a way for the Devils to ever win with Holtz unless he had been in the Calgary or San Jose packages, tbh.
The Rangers held on to Lias Andersson until he was 22 as well, and I'm not sure they would have moved him if he hadn't asked for a trade. The rangers also held on to Kravtsov and are doing the same with Kakko. Vancouver held on to Olli Juolevi until he was 23. Philly held on to Nolan Patrick until he was 23, etc.
BomaLightDevils
Registered User
Thanks mate.
Hope we see a lot of this, we could really use some physical play but very nice skills for a bigger guy
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