Not if your goal is not the short term. If you trade him, you are not looking to see how far you an go during the 2014 playoffs.
Larry Brooks: Sather must decide: Is dealing Girardi best for Rangers?
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
eco's bones
Registered User
Lower end 1st rounders are often b level prospects with more years of development away. If I'm trading Girardi the main piece coming back is a young player that's already showing a lot of promise not a draft pick unless it's at least within the top 20 in a good year.
Chicago fans on the trading page bringing up Girardi today for instance for their 1st and Jeremy Morin. I'd be more interested in Clendening +. Morin's from Kreider's draft and has had a hard time sticking. Their first might be the last guy taken in the draft this year. You're not really getting any kind of guaranteed performer for giving Chicago a better shot at winning a Cup with Morin and the 1st.
Anyway I wouldn't be adverse if I were moving Girardi from trading him to the Pens either even hating them as much as I do. The Pens have a lot of interesting young players that might be had--Beau Bennett (though blood clots can be a serious thing)--I think Maatta and Pouliot might be off the table but maybe work something around any of Despres +, Dumoulin +, Harrington +. If Pittsburgh started taking hits to their d-corps going down to the deadline--maybe the Rangers could land a Pouliot.
Chicago fans on the trading page bringing up Girardi today for instance for their 1st and Jeremy Morin. I'd be more interested in Clendening +. Morin's from Kreider's draft and has had a hard time sticking. Their first might be the last guy taken in the draft this year. You're not really getting any kind of guaranteed performer for giving Chicago a better shot at winning a Cup with Morin and the 1st.
Anyway I wouldn't be adverse if I were moving Girardi from trading him to the Pens either even hating them as much as I do. The Pens have a lot of interesting young players that might be had--Beau Bennett (though blood clots can be a serious thing)--I think Maatta and Pouliot might be off the table but maybe work something around any of Despres +, Dumoulin +, Harrington +. If Pittsburgh started taking hits to their d-corps going down to the deadline--maybe the Rangers could land a Pouliot.
The formula for a core according to Pierre McGuire is the following:
2 Top Tier Centers
1 Power Forward
1 Shutdown Forward
1 Top offensive Defenseman
1 Top Defensive Defenseman
1 Top tier goalie.
The Rangers have 5 of the 7. Cally and G represent that. You can argue Staal and McD for both roles and be justified, but G being a righty makes one dominant shut down pair.
The Rangers need an offensive defenseman, and another center. Richards and Brassard platooning 2nd and 3rd line production is leading to some offense, but the team will need another top center.
If you have those components in this league eating top minutes every night, you are a playoff team.
2 Top Tier Centers
1 Power Forward
1 Shutdown Forward
1 Top offensive Defenseman
1 Top Defensive Defenseman
1 Top tier goalie.
The Rangers have 5 of the 7. Cally and G represent that. You can argue Staal and McD for both roles and be justified, but G being a righty makes one dominant shut down pair.
The Rangers need an offensive defenseman, and another center. Richards and Brassard platooning 2nd and 3rd line production is leading to some offense, but the team will need another top center.
If you have those components in this league eating top minutes every night, you are a playoff team.
CharlieCharleschuk
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2013
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I'm pretty sure that "having long-term vision" doesn't guarantee that any players coming back will develop into what you already have, never mind hoping that they'll be better.
And then there's the cap space issue. If you're concerned about Girardi's potential cap hit, what's going to replace it? Surely it gets spent on something else that amuses and disgusts over the next few seasons until the young prospect can get a chance to prove himself.
You know, in the 20+ years I've been watching this team, I've seen only a handful of really talented kids come up and develop in the system and stay with the team. I'm a bird-in-the-hand kind of guy after watching prospect after prospect flame out. Ryan McDonagh is not a typical outcome.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
That's a fun little chart, but how many Stanley Cup Champs since the salary cap can say they've truly had that?
cd211
Registered User
I'm a big fan of this. When you already have the player that you hope the prospect you're chasing turns into, just resign the player. Players get older and retire. It happens.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
Really?
Please list:
Chicago's 2 Top Tier Centers
LA's 2 Top Tier Centers/Shutdown Forward (Mike Richards can only be one)
Pittsburgh's Power Forward
Anaheim's 2 Top Tier Centers
Carolina's Top Offensive Defenseman
Thanks in advance.
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
cd211
Registered User
CHi-SHarp and Toews
La-Mike Richards and Kopitar carter and brown can be their pfwds and shut down, both are excellent there
Pit-I actually thought Neil was on the squad, but i can classify Malkin as P FWD, i guess its how you preceive a player.. i view a pfwd as a player that powers himself to the dirt areas or hard to the net to score.. Malkin can fit that profile..
Ana-Andy Mcd was a 1c back then
Carolina-kaberle put up 44pts offensive dman
no problem for answering.. but every team that wins has a lot more then that i feel, its not exact but you need special players to win for sure..
Ail
Based and Rangerspilled.
So they should just ride every prospect or player they do develop right through 'til the bitter end because you're afraid they won't replace them with a younger player? That's ridiculous. You have to calculate risk on both sides of the argument. There is a huge risk with signing these two players to long-term, high dollar contracts. You have to know when to fold and when to go all in. Unless it is a franchise player like Lundqvist you have to cut ties before you end up with a declining player(s) who is overpaid.
The smart move for the future of this franchise is trading both of them. People keep talking about how hard it will be to replace Dan Girardi but also forget Dan Girardi was an undrafted FA. These players can be found, and if they don't replace him right away, who cares? This isn't about tomorrow, or next month. It's about the next 5 years or longer.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
Well if you loosen the requirements that much, then this current Ranger team has no problem meeting it.
2 Top Tier Centers - Richards and Stepan
1 Power Forward - Nash
1 Shutdown Forward - Callahan
1 Top offensive Defenseman - McDonagh
1 Top Defensive Defenseman - Girardi
1 Top tier goalie - Lundqvist/Talbot
We got our core guys.
edit: why is Sharp bolded? Is it because he hasn't played center regularly in forever?
cd211
Registered User
yeah very loose requirements..hahah
you think we have what it takes?
nah just to highlight him, but yeah he prob hasnt played center as much since then..
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
- 28,981
- 24,357
To win the Cup? Probably not, but not because of some arbitrary formula Pierre McGuire came up with.
Uh oh looks like it's time to keep the responses simple eh?!
Look at the teams that are at the top of 5v5 goal differential year after year, and then look at the make up of their roster and see who fits where.
BOS, STL, LA, ANA, PIT, and SJ have it this year. Now go look at the standings.
Look at the teams that are at the top of 5v5 goal differential year after year, and then look at the make up of their roster and see who fits where.
BOS, STL, LA, ANA, PIT, and SJ have it this year. Now go look at the standings.
CharlieCharleschuk
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2013
- 214
- 0
Come on, let's pretend we're serious people and not start with the "ridiculous" comments, etc. There's no hard and fast rule to this, as you seem to imagine I think.
There are several factors to consider, which have been discussed at length and ad nauseum. So, judging by these factors, I believe it would be foolish to let Girardi go. I think he's competent, durable and eats tons of minutes. He's a guy who's good in the locker room. He gives it up for his team. The reason he's considered so highly around the league is because he's the dependable kind of guy most every coach wants on his team. We have this guy, there is no reason to let him go because we won't replace him.
To your comment that these guys "can be found" I say that if they are there, then that negates Girardi's value and you won't get anything for him in a trade (because anyone could just sign them). But the fact is that they are not there. That's why he's valuable to us and has a certain value to the rest of the league.
Callahan, on the other hand, has a significant risk in a long-term contract. He tends to get banged up and knocked out of the lineup. That's a characteristic that gets worse over the years. Additionally, there's the fact that we have a number of wingers who are stepping up now to take on his role, as we saw when he was most recently out. Therefore I agree with those who say that he could be moved for futures.
I'm confused to how Cally is only a 3rd liner. He is currently playing on the top line now and has been excellent since being back.
He has been a top 3 goal scorer for this team over the last 3 seasons. He hit 29 Goals in 2010-11 season, and last season was on pace for 30 Goals again.
If Cally stays healthy he is going to score between 50 to 60 points in a season, yeah the word is "if" but in AV's system which is not required to sacrifice every part of the body blocking a shot will be beneficial for Cally since most of his injuries have occured from blocking shots. I've already seen a difference in his game adjusting to AV's system, where he is setting up more plays, and getting more scoring chances.
There are more pros to sign cally than cons. Injuries cannot be predicted, and if Cally stays on the ice, he is going to be a beast and make a major difference.
Exactly, I'm not sure why the complete 180 on Callahan. 1 or 2 seasons ago, it would've been sacrilege to suggest he's a 3rd line player by Rangers fan. Now every other Ranger fan is suggesting he's a 3rd liner or that the Rangers shouldn't bother offering him a contract.
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
3rdlineglory
Korsi Kevin
I don't understand why it's the worst thing possible to resign Girardi, Callahan, Boyle, etc (even at their open market values.) The cap is going up and Richards will most likely get bought out. Let's say in 3-4 years, management determines that the window is closed and it's time to move on (I know, highly unlikely). The cap will be even higher at that point and I highly doubt any of them will have declined so much at that point that they are "untradeable." Also, signed players are more valuable than rentals. But yeah let's trade guys that give it their all virtually every night because they can get "too expensive" and promptly give Paul freakin Stastny whatever he wants in the offseason 
.
.Talbot is better than Lundqvist.
Derek Stepan Sucks.
Daniel Carcillo went from useless goon to a player who brings grit, intensity and physicality every night.
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