SAP Center lease expiring in 2025. UPD. No relocation for Sharks regardless of arena deal

[Vamos Rafa]

No nearly as appalling as trying to squeeze a hockey rink into an arena built for a smaller basketball court. Just ask the Islanders. Or the Coyotes 20 years ago. Basketball in a hockey arena is fine, hicking a basketball arena doesn't work.

Oh definitely. But my point still stands. If you look at the sightlines for a basketball game, they look far better at a place like Frost Bank Center or Chase Center than say, Crypto.com Arena or Scotiabank Arena. MSG is a rare one where both basketball and hockey were made for that arena.

 

[StreetHawk]

Oh definitely. But my point still stands. If you look at the sightlines for a basketball game, they look far better at a place like Frost Bank Center or Chase Center than say, Crypto.com Arena or Scotiabank Arena. MSG is a rare one where both basketball and hockey were made for that arena.

City/owner has to decide what they want. If you have both teams, then you're going with the traditional ones that accommodate both. In markets like Indiana, Charlotte, Sacramento where at the time they did not expect to every have hockey, same with Phoenix, then they build what they need and save the money from the permanent ice makers.

Sounds like LV expansion team for NBA is going to build their own arena. So, expect that to be basketball only. Seattle is going to share with the Kraken. Hansen had a difficult time getting his Sodo project approved which was to be located right by the Seahawks and Mariners stadiums back in the day and with a renovated (virtually new arena), I doubt the city/county is interested in having another arena around.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

City/owner has to decide what they want. If you have both teams, then you're going with the traditional ones that accommodate both. In markets like Indiana, Charlotte, Sacramento where at the time they did not expect to every have hockey, same with Phoenix, then they build what they need and save the money from the permanent ice makers.

Sounds like LV expansion team for NBA is going to build their own arena. So, expect that to be basketball only. Seattle is going to share with the Kraken. Hansen had a difficult time getting his Sodo project approved which was to be located right by the Seahawks and Mariners stadiums back in the day and with a renovated (virtually new arena), I doubt the city/county is interested in having another arena around.

Seattle was always going to be multi-purpose, because of the Sonics and OVG, who manages Climate Pledge....

 

[BKIslandersFan]

More and more NBA teams want new arenas that aren’t specifically shaped for hockey rinks. A basketball court in a hockey rink is so appalling to look at.

A possible solution.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I called this months ago. This is gonna get juicy. Houston, Atlanta, Quebec and even Phoenix will be keeping a close eye on this.

Now this is ridiculous.

 

[rsteen]

A possible solution.

Look at the dates. A dual NHL/NBA arena can't take two days to lay down a new ice sheet every time it switches.

 

[gstommylee]

Look at the dates. A dual NHL/NBA arena can't take two days to lay down a new ice sheet every time it switches.

Normal conversions from hockey to non hockey event they just cover up the ice. its only until the NHL off-season where they remove the ice.

 

[KevFu]

It would be absolutely insane to leave a market (Bay Area) which is like the third biggest, that they have all to themselves. Something like 17 of the top 114 MSA's are in the Sharks TV footprint.

AND you have an NFL and probably MLB team leaving the formerly "seven-team" market.

Stockton is an armpit of a town and doesn't deserve anything nice, including the AHL. Source: lived there.

Same.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

It would be absolutely insane to leave a market (Bay Area) which is like the third biggest, that they have all to themselves. Something like 17 of the top 114 MSA's are in the Sharks TV footprint.

AND you have an NFL and probably MLB team leaving the formerly "seven-team" market.






Same.

Just can’t help but imagine how much more popular the Sharks would’ve been if they were the SF Sharks. Plus, the name makes more sense for a coastal city like SF rather than an inland one like San Jose.

 

[LadyStanley]

San Jose is on the Guadalupe river and not too far (10 miles) from SF Bay, and less than an hour to the ocean.

The triangle in the logo was suggested by the shark territory off the coastal area (Faralons, etc).

 

[PCSPounder]

A possible solution.

Was that a hydraulic floor? Interesting.

Nike wanted to do that with Memorial Coliseum in Portland so that could host indoor track & field on occasion, including the 2016 World Indoor that ended up being held at Oregon Convention Center. City of Portland wouldn’t pay for it, of course.

https://chatterbox.typepad.com/portlandarchitecture/2016/03/nikes-tinker-hatfield-and-skylabs-jeff-kovel-discuss-memorial-coliseum-renovation-plan.html

Something with way less moving parts is being hinted at elsewhere in Portland now, FYI.

In the meantime, a note of irony. There was kind of a groundswell of people in Portland who wanted to see what would become Moda Center be designed more like MacArthur Court in Eugene (four levels that look like three, more up than out). That would have completely excluded hockey. It probably would even have been cool. But Paul Allen decided he might even try for the NHL. Then he tried to get that at a discount. Shrug. Now the ice plant in Moda is gone and the clock ticks until the Winterhawks start pleading poverty again.

 

[KevFu]

Just can’t help but imagine how much more popular the Sharks would’ve been if they were the SF Sharks. Plus, the name makes more sense for a coastal city like SF rather than an inland one like San Jose.

Eh, I don't know if just the name San Francisco would make them more popular.

To me, it's more the "270 degrees" around the Bay that BART goes -- that Millbrae and Berryssa don't connect.

Then again, it continues to bug me that metro areas don't just all work together and be like "okay, we want to have a team in each league, accessibility and parking at each venue, development around each venue... let's basically do the "philly thing" only with six mini-sites and just rotate around.

 

[Voight]

More and more NBA teams want new arenas that aren’t specifically shaped for hockey rinks. A basketball court in a hockey rink is so appalling to look at.

If they're in a. city that also has an NHL team, that isn't going to happen unless they do the Sixers way of privately financing the arena/. Which very few owners want to do.

 

[varsaku]

If they're in a. city that also has an NHL team, that isn't going to happen unless they do the Sixers way of privately financing the arena/. Which very few owners want to do.

Designing a stadium with a built-in ice plant for a potential of a NHL team playing there isn't worth it for many investors unless already guaranteed. I don't believe Intuit Dome will have one either. So it does seem a lot of NBA teams are designing their new stadiums with without hockey in mind.

 

[Voight]

Designing a stadium with a built-in ice plant for a potential of a NHL team playing there isn't worth it for many investors unless already guaranteed. I don't believe Intuit Dome will have one either. So it does seem a lot of NBA teams are designing their new stadiums with without hockey in mind.

Yes and that's only because they're privately funded as the Intuit Dome was. I highly doubt any state or local government will contribute money to an NBA only arena if there's an NHL team in the same city.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yes and that's only because they're privately funded as the Intuit Dome was. I highly doubt any state or local government will contribute money to an NBA only arena if there's an NHL team in the same city.

The NHL won't put a 3rd team in the LA area. Only if the Ducks/Kings were to move out of theirs, but doubt it. You see this with other NBA only cities, like in Sacramento, Indy, Charlotte (since it opened after the one in Raleigh), Miami, etc. Same reason back in the day that AZ wasn't built for NHL hockey is that Coangelo, the Suns owner did ask Zeigler if they would expand into AZ and was told no.
If there isn't going to be an NHL team in that city, then cities typically just build for the NBA team only, as that's also a better configuration for concerts.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

The NHL won't put a 3rd team in the LA area. Only if the Ducks/Kings were to move out of theirs, but doubt it. You see this with other NBA only cities, like in Sacramento, Indy, Charlotte (since it opened after the one in Raleigh), Miami, etc. Same reason back in the day that AZ wasn't built for NHL hockey is that Coangelo, the Suns owner did ask Zeigler if they would expand into AZ and was told no.
If there isn't going to be an NHL team in that city, then cities typically just build for the NBA team only, as that's also a better configuration for concerts.

Isn’t Toyota Center in Houston shaped for a hockey rink and yet they don’t have an NHL team?

To me, the biggest difference between a basketball-only arena and a shared arena is the corner seats. At Frost Bank Center or Gainbridge Fieldhouse, the seats in the corner are angled towards the basketball hoop. At places like United Center or Wells Fargo Center, those seats are angled towards the hockey net.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Isn’t Toyota Center in Houston shaped for a hockey rink and yet they don’t have an NHL team?

To me, the biggest difference between a basketball-only arena and a shared arena is the corner seats. At Frost Bank Center or Gainbridge Fieldhouse, the seats in the corner are angled towards the basketball hoop. At places like United Center or Wells Fargo Center, those seats are angled towards the hockey net.

where/who's the pro hockey owner in Houston.... that's why Houston has no pro hockey franchise there, since the Wild owned the majority stake in the Aeros

 

[StreetHawk]

Isn’t Toyota Center in Houston shaped for a hockey rink and yet they don’t have an NHL team?

To me, the biggest difference between a basketball-only arena and a shared arena is the corner seats. At Frost Bank Center or Gainbridge Fieldhouse, the seats in the corner are angled towards the basketball hoop. At places like United Center or Wells Fargo Center, those seats are angled towards the hockey net.

Houston had AHL team at the time and so accommodated for it. No surprise the smaller US markets like Indiana, Sac. etc just opted for basketball only.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

where/who's the pro hockey owner in Houston.... that's why Houston has no pro hockey franchise there, since the Wild owned the majority stake in the Aeros

I’m just saying that Toyota Center is an arena that has a seating bowl shaped for a hockey rink.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Houston had AHL team at the time and so accommodated for it. No surprise the smaller US markets like Indiana, Sac. etc just opted for basketball only.

Gainbridge isn't configured that way because Indiana is known for basketball, remember Hoosiers..... it's why the new Fishers Events Center.... where the Fuel will be this season is the new arena du jour, and the area is what it's become...

I’m just saying that Toyota Center is an arena that has a seating bowl shaped fo a hockey rink.

the problem is the ownership in Houston, not the arena setup

 

[willy702]

As proven by just about every new arena/stadium or threat of one, the money is in controlling the facility and the land around it for development. There is minimal value in being a tenant in a building. Ballmer and the Clippers got pretty good terms being tenants and still moved to their own building. A hockey team won't work in Houston unless the new owner is buying the arena too and the Rockets are moving off to another new arena/development. It might have worked in the past but with valuations as they are now for teams there is an implicit premium built in from value generated from arena revenue streams.

 

[StreetHawk]

As proven by just about every new arena/stadium or threat of one, the money is in controlling the facility and the land around it for development. There is minimal value in being a tenant in a building. Ballmer and the Clippers got pretty good terms being tenants and still moved to their own building. A hockey team won't work in Houston unless the new owner is buying the arena too and the Rockets are moving off to another new arena/development. It might have worked in the past but with valuations as they are now for teams there is an implicit premium built in from value generated from arena revenue streams.

And with NBA cities as the primary next targets for NHL expansion, it's either the NBA owner buys the expansion team or the NHL applicants builds a new arena in a different county/city than where the NBA arena is located. Which is what is happening in ATL.
Pretty easy for the NHL to talk to Ishiba in AZ and Fertitta in HOU to see what they are thinking and their level of interest.

But, we just saw the valuation on TB Lightning at $2 billion. So, are either NBA owner interested in the NHL at that price tag?

 

[gstommylee]

And with NBA cities as the primary next targets for NHL expansion, it's either the NBA owner buys the expansion team or the NHL applicants builds a new arena in a different county/city than where the NBA arena is located. Which is what is happening in ATL.
Pretty easy for the NHL to talk to Ishiba in AZ and Fertitta in HOU to see what they are thinking and their level of interest.

But, we just saw the valuation on TB Lightning at $2 billion. So, are either NBA owner interested in the NHL at that price tag?

is any one interested in a NHL team at that price that includes ATL.

 

[willy702]

is any one interested in a NHL team at that price that includes ATL.

I doubt an expansion team will be that high but it certainly should be over a billion. Kinda hard to say a new team is worth what an established team with 3 Cups is.