Sanderson vs Seider vs Power vs Dobson

[Golden_Jet]

Here's a cheatsheet for hfBoards player rankings:

DMen with high point totals are all terrible defensively.

Forwards with 60 points are all amazing defensively. Forwards with 90 points are all terrible defensively.

+/- is used a confirmation bias stat. it means nothing if it goes against their narrative, but means a lot if it supports their narrative.



Hfboards never watch Dobson play. They go off that cheat-sheet

Use plus minus relative to teammates, to get a more accurate description.

Players that play on teams with high plus goal differential, have better plus minus than teams that have a high negative goal differential.

Empty net goal influence number
Just needs to be used in context.

 

[Imgoingtowork]

1 - Seider
2 - Sanderson
3 - Power
4 - Dobson

Probably right grade.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Use plus minus relative to teammates, to get a more accurate description.

Players that play on teams with high plus goal differential, have better plus minus than teams that have a high negative goal differential.

Empty net goal influence number
Just needs to be used in context.

Or don't use it because it's a garbage stat that indicates absolutely nothing without the full context.

Did a Vezina caliber goalie let in a muffin on a late line change where the breakout was already up ice?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Or don't use it because it's a garbage stat that indicates absolutely nothing without the full context.

Did a Vezina caliber goalie let in a muffin on a late line change where the breakout was already up ice?

I use it, like I pointed out on how to use it properly , and then you agreed, use the proper context.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think Dobson probably had the best play last season. Great numbers and from what I saw of him, the eye test matched. Seider and Sanderson both had to take really tough matchups and struggled a bit. Power, I'm just not sure because Buffalo is such a mess. They have a lot of skill so a lot of their guys manage to produce. No one manages to defend, and I'm really not sure who to blame. Power hasn't been the solution, yet. Maybe that means he's part of the problem. Maybe that means I almost never watch the Sabres and am wildly guessing. Who can say.

As a Red Wing a fan, I'm taking Seider and rather easily. I think that with a functional partner, and slightly more offensive usage, he will ascend to being a perennial Norris candidate-maybe even snagging one or two in years that Makar decides to relax. I don't imagine we'll see that next year, but I think by 2025-26 we'll have a team that can support him.

 

[bert]

As an individual, he needed Zub to put up good numbers, overall he was alright, but with Zub he was good.



I just don't think Ottawa as a team is as good as their fans think.



Tkachuk being overrated.

Stutzle being overrated.

Sanderson being overrated.

Signing bad goalies.

No true stars (maybe Stutzle is one, but yet to be confirmed).

There are lots of reasons.

Notbias at all lol. What a joke. Change your name immediately.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Notbias at all lol. What a joke. Change your name immediately.

Biased_leaf_fan is more accurate description. All you have to do is read the one post you quoted.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

I use it, like I pointed out on how to use it properly , and then you agreed, use the proper context.

Take a look at the top +/- forwards in the league last year.

Zack Hyman is #1 McKinnon #2
McDavid and Draisaitl are both in the top 10.

The circular talkaround to make that make sense to popular hockey narratives around 'defensive play' would make heads asplode.

It doesn't tell any story at all. Maybe offensive zone deployment?


Then when you go year by year who were the +/- leaders. Also a bunch of hogwashy nonsense.


+/- was the reason advanced stats were created.

 

[bert]

biase_leaf_fan is more accurate description. All you have to do is read the one post you quoted.

You'd have to be hockey illiterate to actually watch Sanderson play and think. He's ok average player.

What a waste of time when people post here and make such obviously bad takes when it's only filled with Bias. @notbias

I'm a sens fan but I'm not oblivious to the sport when I watch a rival.

All 4 of these d men are fantastic players. To me this was a big toss up between Seider and Sanderson due to their elite 2 way ability. I went Seider I value the RHD and the extra physicality. However I don't really think there is any wrong answer. It's personal preference.

Dobson had an insane season last year.

Power may have shown the least but to watch him play and not see the upside you're probably not very experienced in watching hockey and projecting big d men. His development curve is going to be the longest in the group. He's very similar to where Dobson was a few years ago.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Take a look at the top +/- forwards in the league last year.

Zack Hyman is #1 McKinnon #2
McDavid and Draisaitl are both in the top 10.


The circular talkaround to make that make sense to popular hockey narratives around 'defensive play' would make heads asplode.

It doesn't tell any story at all. Maybe offensive zone deployment?

See post 101 on goal differential, we already discussed proper ways to look at it.

Anyways, not really on thread topic, so I’ll bow out.

 

[notbias]

Notbias at all lol. What a joke. Change your name immediately.

Thanks for the suggestion... I got it as a joke and now people who take things far too literally and have no sense of humor tell me to change it, so I find it funny.

As for Sanderson, it's fine if he isn't living up to the hype... he may very well live up to it one day, and he is a good player now, so be happy.

If the Sens were half as good as their fans thought they'd be better than 7th last.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

How is this talking out my ass.
Sanderson was also up there in tough deployment. Not as high as Seider but still high. Sandy better on the offense numbers on graph.

ES scoring Seider and Sanderson were identical. (Sanderson 3 less games)

PP scoring Seider outscored Sanderson despite playing about 75% of the time, and much of it on Detroit's second unit. (I dunno if Sanderson was on Ottawa's #1PP but he has the most time so logic would say it's likely...)

... And that while, as you admitted, Seider's deployment was ungodly.

 

[Golden_Jet]

ES scoring Seider and Sanderson were identical. (Sanderson 3 less games)

PP scoring Seider outscored Sanderson despite playing about 75% of the time, and much of it on Detroit's second unit. (I dunno if Sanderson was on Ottawa's #1PP but he has the most time so logic would say it's likely...)

... And that while, as you admitted, Seider's deployment was ungodly.

Chabot was #1 PP, Sandy and Chychurn were #2.
When Chabot was hurt they tried both on #1.

Yep Seider was top deployment defending and Sanderson was top 10-15%, like I also said.
I never said ungodly I said he was tops.

 

[bert]

Thanks for the suggestion... I got it as a joke and now people who take things far too literally and have no sense of humor tell me to change it, so I find it funny.

As for Sanderson, it's fine if he isn't living up to the hype... he may very well live up to it one day, and he is a good player now, so be happy.

If the Sens were half as good as their fans thought they'd be better than 7th last.

You're definitely a joke. Anyone that bases single player evaluations on team results should probably take a breather.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Thanks for the suggestion... I got it as a joke and now people who take things far too literally and have no sense of humor tell me to change it, so I find it funny.

As for Sanderson, it's fine if he isn't living up to the hype... he may very well live up to it one day, and he is a good player now, so be happy.

If the Sens were half as good as their fans thought they'd be better than 7th last.

You have literally no idea at all what you're talking about when it comes to Sanderson. Zero.

 

[notbias]

You have literally no idea at all what you're talking about when it comes to Sanderson. Zero.

"Chabot is going to win a Norris"

"Tkachuk is the best power forward"

"Stutzle is an elite player"

"Sanderson will win a Norris"

Sens fans have no clue.

You're definitely a joke. Anyone that bases single player evaluations on team results should probably take a breather.

I base a single player evaluation on that single player, but apologies if my opinion does not coincide with your opinion... Sens suck, their players are overrated, Sanderson will never win a Norris, he will grow to be in the 2nd tier of D while he plays, elite but not a superstar.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I base a single player evaluation on that single player, but apologies if my opinion does not coincide with your opinion...

problem is your opinion does not coincide with many on these boards, even a lot of leaf fans.

A good comparison would be Tom Hanks and Wilson.

 

[notbias]

problem is your opinion does not coincide with many on these boards, even a lot of leaf fans.

A good comparison would be Tom Hanks and Wilson.

A good chunk also assumed Ottawa would be close to making the playoffs by now and look how that worked out, mostly because of their lack of superstar talent

 

[Golden_Jet]

A good chunk also assumed Ottawa would be close to making the playoffs by now and look how that worked out, mostly because of their lack of superstar talent

And everyone in the hockey world thought leafs would win more than one playoff round in the last 8 years, yet here we are.
Heck Ottawa has more playoff wins in the last 8 years.

Leafs have never won more than 2 rounds ever.

 

[notbias]

And everyone in the hockey world thought leafs would win more than one playoff round in the last 8 years, yet here we are.
Heck Ottawa has more playoff wins in the last 8 years.

Leafs have never won more than 2 rounds ever.

You're proving my point... people are wrong constantly, even in large groups, thank you.

Not sure what you're whining about, but not sure Ottawa fans can discuss winning when their last cup was in 1927.

We are discussing Sanderson, it'd be nice to continue without you going off-topic, but once again, thanks for agreeing with my original point.

 

[SpezDispenser]

"Chabot is going to win a Norris"

"Tkachuk is the best power forward"

"Stutzle is an elite player"

"Sanderson will win a Norris"

Sens fans have no clue.



I base a single player evaluation on that single player, but apologies if my opinion does not coincide with your opinion... Sens suck, their players are overrated, Sanderson will never win a Norris, he will grow to be in the 2nd tier of D while he plays, elite but not a superstar.

Stutzle is an elite player, Sanderson will win a Norris (or has as good a chance as any other young stud D-man] and Tkachuk is a hell of a power forward. Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. The problem with Ottawa is it was built incorrectly by the imbecile previous GM, it has zero bearing on analyzing individual players.

Goodness you're making yourself look like a buffoon.

 

[notbias]

Stutzle is an elite player, Sanderson will win a Norris (or has as good a chance as any other young stud D-man] and Tkachuk is a hell of a power forward. Again, you have no clue what you're talking about. The problem with Ottawa is it was built incorrectly by the imbecile previous GM, it has zero bearing on analyzing individual players.

Goodness you're making yourself look like a buffoon.

How many elite players are there? Stutzle has a single season outlier and was just tied for 50th in points.

Sanderson is not on the level of Hughes, Makar, or Fox, there are some other guys around that grouping too, but there are also a ton of good D coming up that are just as young or younger... Sanderson winning a Norris will be a surprise.

Tkachuk is a good power forward but one of the most overrated players just because he hits and fights, people like that... but he isn't helping you win as much as some think.

Chabot was Sanderson just 5 years ago... everyone hyped him to no end, how's that going?

I'll ignore the last sentence because I think it says more about you than me.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You're proving my point... people are wrong constantly, even in large groups, thank you.

Lmao, struggling, everyone is wrong but biased guy. Gold medal for entertainment for you. So you were the only one who thought leafs couldn’t win more than a round in 8 years, congrats

And everyone in the hockey world thought leafs would win more than one playoff round in the last 8 years, yet here we are.
Heck Ottawa has more playoff wins in the last 8 years.

 

[SpezDispenser]

How many elite players are there? Stutzle has a single season outlier and was just tied for 50th in points.

Sanderson is not on the level of Hughes, Makar, or Fox, there are some other guys around that grouping too, but there are also a ton of good D coming up that are just as young or younger... Sanderson winning a Norris will be a surprise.

Tkachuk is a good power forward but one of the most overrated players just because he hits and fights, people like that... but he isn't helping you win as much as some think.

Chabot was Sanderson just 3 years ago... everyone hyped him to no end, how's that going?

I'll ignore the last sentence because I think it says more about you than me.

No, it's meant to say a lot about you, you shouldn't ignore it.

So Stutzle isn't elite after registering 39 goals and 90 points as a 21 year old and laboring through last season with a wrist injury? Interesting. That's an opinion alright.

Sanderson, at age 22 isn't on par with Makar or Fox is a surprise to absolutely no one, but his progression in the NHL has been meteoric. You literally have to be blind not to see it.

Tkachuk is overrated because he hits and fights....where do you even go with that? 37 goals, 74 points and 3rd in hits in the entire league is overrated?

Like, dude....stick to dissecting your own team or do some actual watching.

 

[Golden_Jet]

How many elite players are there? Stutzle has a single season outlier and was just tied for 50th in points.

Injured for all but 4 games, but that only counts if Matthew’s has a wrist injury.
Stu had wrist and shoulder/neck,

So we can ignore leafs injuries now, cause not bias says so.