Sam Rosen was right (Historical impact of Rangers' roster moves)

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

It's absurd at this point. Hearing TLB last night made me sick. "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Martin St. Louis?"

• August 20, 2001- "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Eric Lindros?"
  
• March 18, 2002 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Pavel Bure?"
  
• February 10, 2003 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Alex Kovalev?"
  
• January 23, 2004 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Jaromir Jagr?"
  
• July 1, 2007 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Scott Gomz?"
  
• July 1, 2007 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Chris Drury?"
  
• July 1, 2008 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Wade Redden?"
  
• July 3, 2008 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Markus Naslund?"
  
• July 2, 2011 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Brad Richards?"
  
• July 24, 2012 - "How often do you get a chance to acquire a player like Rick Nash?"

The better question should be how many times should you be allowed to trade guys like Brian Leetch and Ryan Callahan?

LOL. Great post.

I thought the SAME thing to myself when they flashed MSL's credentials on the screen last night. 6 time all-star. Former Hart Trophy winner, former this, former that.

You know what it means to me? They've usually been in the league too long and had their best days with other teams.

 

[OverTheCap]

The fire sale of 2004 was the only time in Sather's tenure that he wasn't in "win now" mode. His inclination is always to "go for it" no matter what state the team is in. The team's window hinges solely on Sather's age - as the years go by and he inches closes to retirement, the desperation only increases.

Sather's philosophy is the exact opposite of Herb Brooks in 1980 - Sather is looking for the best players, not the right ones. The MSL trade is classic Sather. He's a big name, exceptionally skilled, on the older side. Too bad he doesn't fill any of the positions that we actually need. Last night, the defensemen were shooting wide, Hagelin looked like a fool trying to play MSL's game, and Richards and Stepan were playing their usual mediocre game. When the hell are long-term needs at C, LW, and offensive D going to be addressed?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The fire sale of 2004 was the only time in Sather's tenure that he wasn't in "win now" mode. His inclination is always to "go for it" no matter what state the team is in. The team's window hinges solely on Sather's age - as the years go by and he inches closes to retirement, the desperation only increases.

Sather's philosophy is the exact opposite of Herb Brooks in 1980 - Sather is looking for the best players, not the right ones. The MSL trade is classic Sather. He's a big name, exceptionally skilled, on the older side. Too bad he doesn't fill any of the positions that we actually need. Last night, the defensemen were shooting wide, Hagelin looked like a fool trying to play MSL's game, and Richards and Stepan were playing their usual mediocre game. When the hell are long-term needs at C, LW, and offensive D going to be addressed?

Right after we get 20 RW's on the roster, apparently.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Hey, guys. I have edited the title of the thread to more clearly indicate what it is about.

 

[Machinehead]

Content aside, the OP ours really well written. Nice job.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The fire sale of 2004 was the only time in Sather's tenure that he wasn't in "win now" mode. His inclination is always to "go for it" no matter what state the team is in. The team's window hinges solely on Sather's age - as the years go by and he inches closes to retirement, the desperation only increases.

Sather's philosophy is the exact opposite of Herb Brooks in 1980 - Sather is looking for the best players, not the right ones. The MSL trade is classic Sather. He's a big name, exceptionally skilled, on the older side. Too bad he doesn't fill any of the positions that we actually need. Last night, the defensemen were shooting wide, Hagelin looked like a fool trying to play MSL's game, and Richards and Stepan were playing their usual mediocre game. When the hell are long-term needs at C, LW, and offensive D going to be addressed?

This team needs to go in another direction. They need to commit themselves to addressing the hard issues first. #1 center and PMD. The other holes becomes MUCH easier to fill when you've addressed this.

Instead, we have been on a track where the other, easier, issues get addressed and field a team with these gaping holes season after season.

 

[Trxjw]

We've been in "win now" mode for years, and haven't won anything. The guy can't even "go for it" correctly.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Couldn't agree more, TB. Well said.

Sigh.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Yea I forgot to say earlier +1 True Blue. Well written, spot on post.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

We've been in "win now" mode for years, and haven't won anything. The guy can't even "go for it" correctly.

I think the only time Sather was ever willing to show patience was pre/post 2004 lockout.

But, he hedged his bet hanging onto Jagr. That, combined with the emergence of Lundqvist reignited his "GO FOR IT" mentality and it hasn't abated since.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

That is it exactly. And the lack of vision. Moves in a vacuum that just put lipstick on a pig.

Sather is going all in on this year and next. And the moves will reflect it. He has no idea of how to win anymore. The Rangers will be paying for this trade and all of the moves for next year for the next decade.

And thats fine. If thats their vision and what they've been setting out to accomplish. Like I said, if he came out and said "We want to win now, because Hank is getting older, the makeup of our team, the makeup of our current prospects, etc." then fine - i could live with that. It shows me they have made an organizational decision with goals and a clear cut plan attached.

But according to Sather in the press conference they were considering both options but MSL trade was better. So they are walking down a road and choosing their direction as they go. Its scary. Trade one hole and open another. Sign one player at the expense of retaining another. Back and forth we go.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Its pretty great how my friends and realists are in this thread, while the dreamers are in the contender thread.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Ryan Callahan =/= Brian Leetch

They are no where close as players.

Not at all my point.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

In this case I TOTALLY disagree. For the Rangers the product sells itself...no Ranger fan needs Glen Sather's spin to make them re-up their season tickets. They do it because that's what Ranger fans do.

It's about your record, and Sather's record of winning is not good.

And maybe they should stop worrying about selling a "product". Build a hockey team that wins and sit back and watch it sell and market itself.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

In this case I TOTALLY disagree. For the Rangers the product sells itself...no Ranger fan needs Glen Sather's spin to make them re-up their season tickets. They do it because that's what Ranger fans do.

It's about your record, and Sather's record of winning is not good.

We all know about the "MSG PR Spin". There are also tons of casuals who yes watch the NYR b/c they live in NY but a large part of the entertainment for THEM is the stuff that seems really stupid to us. Most people aren't fans to our degree and they DO get entertained from the pomp and nonsense

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

And maybe they should stop worrying about selling a "product". Build a hockey team that wins and sit back and watch it sell and market itself.

Agreed.

Although sort of tough to do when you spend your time at the Garden and watch the sheep that already have St. Louis jerseys, while their Callahan jersey gathers mothballs in the closet.

 

[slipknottin]

I would say this is one of the worst trades in franchise history. But it just adds to the list.

It seemed like they finally started going in the right direction bringing up so many of their own players, then the Nash trade, now this trade.

 

[OverTheCap]

I also want to echo the sentiment of others and say well-done, True Blue. I find myself agreeing with you frequently.

Right after we get 20 RW's on the roster, apparently.

Maybe Sather will start playing some of our RWs at C or D... Nash at C, Zucc at RD... yet another genius move by Slats.

And thats fine. If thats their vision and what they've been setting out to accomplish. Like I said, if he came out and said "We want to win now, because Hank is getting older, the makeup of our team, the makeup of our current prospects, etc." then fine - i could live with that.

But according to Sather in the press conference they were considering both options but MSL trade was better. So they are walking down a road and choosing their direction as they go. Its scary. Trade one hole and open another. Sign one player at the expense of retaining another. Back and forth we go.

And sadly this is not the first time in recent years Sather has flown by the seat of his pants instead of sticking to a plan. In the 2012 offseason, the organization emphasized how their top priority was to add more depth on both offense and defense - then they proceeded to make the Nash trade which gave them less depth than they had before.

 

[True Blue]

We've been in "win now" mode for years, and haven't won anything. The guy can't even "go for it" correctly.

One of the many, many issues. WIN NOW!!! Has Sather actually asked himself if the team can REALLY win NOW?

History repeats itself. Older players, whose best years were played on a different team with no real loyalty to the Rangers. Not that MSL is Bobby Holik, but still. How predictable. And when MSL does not lead the team to the finals, how soon until we start to hear "Who can be brought in to play with St. Louis to get his game going"?

Maybe if Sather concerned himself with why in last night's game BOTH of the defensemen were NOT in front of the net on the game winning goal, things could be different.

Hockey's different here. It sure is. Dismantle a team that went into ECF and replace them with Columbus Bluejackets for crying out loud!

LET'S GO FOR IT! NOW! Hey Glen, what happens in two years? NO IDEA because we are going for it NOW!!

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

so, I'm curious, what would you guys have done, yesterday?

Give Cally what he wanted? DUMB MOVE

Stood pat and done nothing, so Cally walks in July for nothing? DUMB MOVE

We acquired an elite forward.

We are NEVER going to be in a position to draft top 5. That's not this team, and it never will be. Our ideology is what it is... stop complaining over and over and over and over again.

I'm not defending Sather's past, as it speaks for itself, but now isn't the time to crush him. We got an elite forward and don't have to pay a grinder 6mm x 6 that he doesn't deserve.

If Callahan wasn't so ridiculously clueless and greedy, this would have never happened.

 

[KreiMeARiver*]

I would say this is one of the worst trades in franchise history. But it just adds to the list.

It seemed like they finally started going in the right direction bringing up so many of their own players, then the Nash trade, now this trade.

yeah no....not even close

 

[slipknottin]

so, I'm curious, what would you guys have done, yesterday?

Give Cally what he wanted? DUMB MOVE

Stood pat and done nothing, so Cally walks in July for nothing

Trade him for something that didn't also include giving up a 1st and a 2nd round draft pick.

Like take the Sharks offer.

Getting an elite player is nice, but he only has at best a couple years left. That means win now mode

 

[Off Sides]

And maybe they should stop worrying about selling a "product". Build a hockey team that wins and sit back and watch it sell and market itself.

Too many pitfalls, they could fail. Short term it may not raise the franchise value, revenue, etc, as fast as it does by doing what they are.


If Forbes is even remotely close the team value in 2005 was 282M, in 2013 it's 850M. An owner who cares about Basketball, who probably sees the Rangers as just a money making asset, that assets raising in value over 500M in 8 years, why would he want to change anything?

Buyouts, missing the playoffs here and there are not comparable to that sort of value raise.

 

[Nightshift]

They wanted draft picks coming back instead of going the other way. That's all they ever want. So they can talk about more McIlraths.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

lot of whiners in here.

so, I'm curious, what would you guys have done, yesterday?

Give Cally what he wanted? DUMB MOVE

Stood pat and done nothing, so Cally walks in July for nothing? DUMB MOVE

We acquired an elite forward.

Some of you people really need to find another team to root for. We are NEVER going to be in a position to draft top 5. That's not this team, and it never will be. Our ideology is what it is... stop complaining over and over and over and over again.

I'm not defending Sather's past, as it speaks for itself, but now isn't the time to crush him. We got an elite forward and don't have to pay a grinder 6mm x 6 that he doesn't deserve.

If Callahan wasn't so ridiculously clueless and greedy, this would have never happened.

And has it worked? Has it?

I know I complain a lot about this team. But its tough love.

Its far from the pathetic garbage involving supporting a team building philosophy that has been an abject failure for decades.