Value of: Sam Bennett

[Figgy44]

- Sam Bennett is one of the youngest in his draft class - Less development
- Sam Bennett lost an entire season of development to shoulder surgery - Less development
- When given chances with Backlund/Frolik, Bennett showed something interesting playing wing.
- Sam Bennett has probably spent more time at C in the NHL than most of his draft peers. He played this entire season at C, most of his draft peers played wing. He played a game or two at LW when Tkachuk was suspended.

- Sam Bennett will not bust like Yakupov. He is working on his two way play at C and has received praises from Burke. He is struggling at C, he is fine at wing.
- Quite a few of us Flames fans believe he will be a late bloomer due to style, age as well as injury.
- There is a fall back plan of using Bennett at wing if he doesn't pan out at C. Some of us feel we should start him at wing now.
- Bennett plays a style that intrigues us. He was completely shadowed by an insane rookie class this season, Tkachuk included. Horrible time to have a sophomore slump.


The path with Bennett has been bumpy thus far. But he won't be moved unless someone gives nearly full value for him. It's not worth taking the risk when we already know that his development path will not be that of a typical player. A new coach has not helped him. This is further exacerbated due to Bennett playing with wingers that he has zero chemistry with.

No to trading Bennett unless it's a young 1RW we cannot refuse.

 

[93LEAFS]

Ihave many clues Oilers stayed away from him for good reason so did Buffalo Same thing I told Leaf fans when Arizona drafted Strome they did the Leafs a huge favor by leaving Marner who ripped apart the OHL there . Also I was a huge backer of when Tkachuk was drafted his 1st year numbers in OHL were better than Halls after 3 years and I stated Tkachuk would of been a 1st overall choice in a other draft years so this is not anti Flames bias . The pull up fail should of been red flags. And all the talk of Bennett being 21 sorry Yaks Numbers were better his 1st 2 seasons than Bennett

Yeah, that red-flag was that his shoulder was shot, which he eventually had surgery on.

Bennett may end up being a bust, but he was highly regarded. It will be interesting to see what Bennett does this year. If he struggles like last year he may end up on the block, but he could also pretty easily end up as a Kadri type pest/match-up center with good scoring. He has a higher upside than that, but expecting him to develop into an all-situations 1b/2a center isn't extreme. I doubt he ever becomes the bonafide number 1 center that some expected of him post-draft, but he still has decent value. I'm sure a bunch of teams desperate for a top 6 center would put in a decent offer if he was actually available.

 

[blankall]

Ihave many clues Oilers stayed away from him for good reason so did Buffalo Same thing I told Leaf fans when Arizona drafted Strome they did the Leafs a huge favor by leaving Marner who ripped apart the OHL there . Also I was a huge backer of when Tkachuk was drafted his 1st year numbers in OHL were better than Halls after 3 years and I stated Tkachuk would of been a 1st overall choice in a other draft years so this is not anti Flames bias . The pull up fail should of been red flags. And all the talk of Bennett being 21 sorry Yaks Numbers were better his 1st 2 seasons than Bennett

Yakupov's first year numbers were clearly skewed by the shortened season. Bennett also had 36 points in his rookie season, more than Yakupovs has ever had, and Bennett did it with way less ice time.

 

[VainGretzky]

Yakupov's first year numbers were clearly skewed by the shortened season. Bennett also had 36 points in his rookie season, more than Yakupovs has ever had, and Bennett did it with way less ice time.

what are you even talking about yak put up 33 in 48 games playing 14:33 a night Bennett put up 36 in 77games playing 15:08 a night Yaks 1st season was superior in ever sense Yaks 2nd year he put up 24 in 63 playing 14:12 a night Bennett Put up 26 in 81 games playing 14:59 a night Yak was better both seasons , so if you're going to respond don't make up bs hoping it sticks and leave out facts like games played.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Can he do a pullup?

 

[DaPhazz]

I don't see how Drouin can be considered a superstar. I mean he only retuned Sergachev in a trade. Could Bennett not return Sergachev too?

I think Drouin is the better offensive player for sure but Sam is looking like that 200 ft center every team covet and that the Habs could definitely use.

I agree with your statement though that he is probably worth more to us then anyone else.

Personnal thoughts:

I was overflowing happiness when we got Drouin for Serg.

I would've cry a couple nights in a row if we got Bennett for Serg.

 

[Lunatik]

Yeah, that red-flag was that his shoulder was shot, which he eventually had surgery on.

How dare you bring facts into this

 

[Aceboogie]

Yeah, that red-flag was that his shoulder was shot, which he eventually had surgery on.

Bennett may end up being a bust, but he was highly regarded. It will be interesting to see what Bennett does this year. If he struggles like last year he may end up on the block, but he could also pretty easily end up as a Kadri type pest/match-up center with good scoring. He has a higher upside than that, but expecting him to develop into an all-situations 1b/2a center isn't extreme. I doubt he ever becomes the bonafide number 1 center that some expected of him post-draft, but he still has decent value. I'm sure a bunch of teams desperate for a top 6 center would put in a decent offer if he was actually available.

In that draft every prospect in top 5/10 had red flags. Bennetts red flag was also whether his bull dog nature would transfer to the NHL and whether he had the smarts to make it work. The comparison was and continues to be to Gilbert Brule who played a very similar junior game and was unable to transfer it to the NHL

Id say its nearly impossible to find a comparable player who had as poor of a start to an NHL career then went on to make it as a 1B/2A center. The closest is probably Johansen who was sent down to the AHL in his 2nd year. In his third year he broke out for 63 points

Kadri is an interesting stylistic comparison but his development path couldnt be more different. Kadri played another year in junior then bounced around AHL and NHL for 2 years on a brutal development team. However by the time the 2 played similar number of games in the NHL, Kadri had 44 points in 48 games- followed by a 50 point season. So even he had shown alot more in a relatively turmoiled first 3 years. Bennett has been in a pretty stable and comfy spot and only a 26 point player

This is not to say he cant turn it around. Id just use historic examples of similar players to show odds are against him. He could pull a Johansen, or he could wind up like 75% of players with similar first 2 years- which is off NHL flame out/depth players

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

In that draft every prospect in top 5/10 had red flags. Bennetts red flag was also whether his bull dog nature would transfer to the NHL and whether he had the smarts to make it work. The comparison was and continues to be to Gilbert Brule who played a very similar junior game and was unable to transfer it to the NHL

Id say its nearly impossible to find a comparable player who had as poor of a start to an NHL career then went on to make it as a 1B/2A center. The closest is probably Johansen who was sent down to the AHL in his 2nd year. In his third year he broke out for 63 points

Kadri is an interesting stylistic comparison but his development path couldnt be more different. Kadri played another year in junior then bounced around AHL and NHL for 2 years on a brutal development team. However by the time the 2 played similar number of games in the NHL, Kadri had 44 points in 48 games- followed by a 50 point season. So even he had shown alot more in a relatively turmoiled first 3 years. Bennett has been in a pretty stable and comfy spot and only a 26 point player

This is not to say he cant turn it around. Id just use historic examples of similar players to show odds are against him. He could pull a Johansen, or he could wind up like 75% of players with similar first 2 years- which is off NHL flame out/depth players

The main thing that I always tell Flames fans is that I don't see Bennett being able to truly develop properly with the Flames. He's a left handed LW/C, which the Flames have insane depth in. He basically has no choice to play with scrubs unless one of Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, or Backlund is gone or injured. And even then last season when Gaudreau and Tkachuk didn't play, Bennett didn't show he could take their place.

 

[Flameshomer]

In that draft every prospect in top 5/10 had red flags. Bennetts red flag was also whether his bull dog nature would transfer to the NHL and whether he had the smarts to make it work. The comparison was and continues to be to Gilbert Brule who played a very similar junior game and was unable to transfer it to the NHL

Id say its nearly impossible to find a comparable player who had as poor of a start to an NHL career then went on to make it as a 1B/2A center. The closest is probably Johansen who was sent down to the AHL in his 2nd year. In his third year he broke out for 63 points

Kadri is an interesting stylistic comparison but his development path couldnt be more different. Kadri played another year in junior then bounced around AHL and NHL for 2 years on a brutal development team. However by the time the 2 played similar number of games in the NHL, Kadri had 44 points in 48 games- followed by a 50 point season. So even he had shown alot more in a relatively turmoiled first 3 years. Bennett has been in a pretty stable and comfy spot and only a 26 point player

This is not to say he cant turn it around. Id just use historic examples of similar players to show odds are against him. He could pull a Johansen, or he could wind up like 75% of players with similar first 2 years- which is off NHL flame out/depth players

Trust me when I say that you guys DO NOT want me to pull the same "Comparable numbers" garbage to tell you how little of a chance Pulju has of not returning to Finland permanently.

 

[Flameshomer]

Also you guys are terrible revisionists. Bennett had a higher NHLE than both Ehlers and Nylander in their draft seasons. He dominated the OHL that season, and he really didn't have anyone to play with on the Frontenacs.

 

[Flameshomer]

Players I would use Bennett as a trade chip for:

-Silfverberg
-Mark Stone
-Pastranak

...

Those are the most realistic, and I don't think any of them would happen. Bennett has too much value to flames fans. As I compared above for my challenged oilers fan friends here, this is like someone proposing a trade for pulju. You're not going to sell low.

 

[Dack]

Playing with Troy Brouwer is not comfortable circumstances.

Brouwer & Bennett together 44.3 CF%
Brouwer without Bennett 44.9 CF%
Bennett without Brouwer 51.7 CF%


Bennett also had an on Ice shooting percentage of 6.28 and the lowest on Ice save% on the flames. I think if he'd had normal linemates average puck luck and some non ridiculous deployment (Maybe some PP time after the team actually got it together) he'd have had a much better season. He wouldn't have lit the world on fire but he would've had good production for a 3rd liner.

I think he's horribly misused to the point where I almost want him traded so he can get a new opportunity elsewhere.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Unless Mark Jankowski proves he's a top 6 caliber center we have really no reason to trade Bennett. And Janko hasn't done that yet.

 

[Aceboogie]

Trust me when I say that you guys DO NOT want me to pull the same "Comparable numbers" garbage to tell you how little of a chance Pulju has of not returning to Finland permanently.

Pulju absolutely has to show well in the NHL next year or year after or at same risk for same argument to be brought up

Also you guys are terrible revisionists. Bennett had a higher NHLE than both Ehlers and Nylander in their draft seasons. He dominated the OHL that season, and he really didn't have anyone to play with on the Frontenacs.

Noone is arguing he wasnt a fantastic junior player. He killed it and did deserve to be picked over those two. But I think you have blinders on if you dont remember the criticisms on draft day and comparisons to Brule back on draft day. Hes not destined to be the next Brule but I do see red flags emerging

 

[CraigsList]

Pulju absolutely has to show well in the NHL next year or year after or at same risk for same argument to be brought up



Noone is arguing he wasnt a fantastic junior player. He killed it and did deserve to be picked over those two. But I think you have blinders on if you dont remember the criticisms on draft day and comparisons to Brule back on draft day. Hes not destined to be the next Brule but I do see red flags emerging

Im alright with your opinions. What bothers me is that there are some that just come in here calling him a bust when the kid is only 21.

 

[Savant]

I'm probably in the minority but if I am the Rangers I would offer a package headlined by Buchnevich for Bennett.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Playing with Troy Brouwer is not comfortable circumstances.

Brouwer & Bennett together 44.3 CF%
Brouwer without Bennett 44.9 CF%
Bennett without Brouwer 51.7 CF%


Bennett also had an on Ice shooting percentage of 6.28 and the lowest on Ice save% on the flames. I think if he'd had normal linemates average puck luck and some non ridiculous deployment (Maybe some PP time after the team actually got it together) he'd have had a much better season. He wouldn't have lit the world on fire but he would've had good production for a 3rd liner.

I think he's horribly misused to the point where I almost want him traded so he can get a new opportunity elsewhere.

Brouwer & Bennett together: 42.9% GF - 53.9% Ozone starts
Brouwer without Bennett: 50% GF - 51% Ozone starts
Bennett without Brouwer: 35.7% GF - 57% Ozone starts

Can't really blame it on Brouwer when Brouwer was doing better in harder minutes away from Bennett. It's probably just an unlucky year with the oish% but there isn't much good to take away from his last season.

 

[Mobiandi]

Bennett showed the kind of player he can be in the playoffs with Versteeg and Chiasson on his line so it's like he needs to be propped up by others. But Brouwer and Bennett did not work well together at all last last season. Their playstyles did not complement each other in any way and the only reason they stayed together for such an extended period of time is because their line was a de facto "cast-off" line. It was only reshuffled after the Flames' tepid end to the season, and for good measure too. Once Brouwer moved down and Chiasson moved up, the third line was on fire

 

[blankall]

what are you even talking about yak put up 33 in 48 games playing 14:33 a night Bennett put up 36 in 77games playing 15:08 a night Yaks 1st season was superior in ever sense Yaks 2nd year he put up 24 in 63 playing 14:12 a night Bennett Put up 26 in 81 games playing 14:59 a night Yak was better both seasons , so if you're going to respond don't make up bs hoping it sticks and leave out facts like games played.

Firstly, I aknowledged that Yakupov's first season was great. In fact, better than the vast majority of rookies, but it was skewed by the shortened season.

Secondly Yakupov does not play on the PK. Bennett gets less PP time and way more PK time than Yakupov did. Once again, Bennett has more points in a single season during his rookie season than Yakopov ever has.

 

[DJJones]

Bennett showed the kind of player he can be in the playoffs with Versteeg and Chiasson on his line so it's like he needs to be propped up by others. But Brouwer and Bennett did not work well together at all last last season. Their playstyles did not complement each other in any way and the only reason they stayed together for such an extended period of time is because their line was a de facto "cast-off" line. It was only reshuffled after the Flames' tepid end to the season, and for good measure too. Once Brouwer moved down and Chiasson moved up, the third line was on fire

Ya you really had to watch every game to appreciate them because they couldn't score a goal to save their lives but that Versteeg - Bennett - Chiasson line was fantastic the last 15-20 games.

Replace Chiasson with Ferland, Jankowski, or Tkachuk and that could be a fun line to watch this year.

 

[Dack]

Brouwer & Bennett together: 42.9% GF - 53.9% Ozone starts
Brouwer without Bennett: 50% GF - 51% Ozone starts
Bennett without Brouwer: 35.7% GF - 57% Ozone starts

Can't really blame it on Brouwer when Brouwer was doing better in harder minutes away from Bennett. It's probably just an unlucky year with the oish% but there isn't much good to take away from his last season.

A small difference in offensive zone starts won't make much if any difference in results. Also Bennett had the lowest oish% and oisv% on the Flames he had horrible puck luck. Brouwer also was that bad last season, I really hope he'll improve because the last thing we need is to have him put up another 0.83 P/60 campaign while also doing this.

http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocOffWi/1617/CGY/brouwtr85/wrap

http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1617/CGY/brouwtr85/wrap

 

[The Thin White Duke]

A small difference in offensive zone starts won't make much if any difference in results. Also Bennett had the lowest oish% and oisv% on the Flames he had horrible puck luck. Brouwer also was that bad last season, I really hope he'll improve because the last thing we need is to have him put up another 0.83 P/60 campaign while also doing this.

http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocOffWi/1617/CGY/brouwtr85/wrap

http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/teamShotLocDefWi/1617/CGY/brouwtr85/wrap

You mentioned he'd do better with "non-ridiculous deployement", I just added the zone starts in to show that it was pretty normal deployment, even pretty sheltered.

I'm not trying to hype Brouwer up, and I agree that luck probably played a big role in Bennett's year, I just don't see the argument for pointing to Brouwer as the cause of Bennett's misfortunes when Brouwer did much better away from Bennett than vice versa. Just looking at the rest of their WOWYs, Bennett managed to make your 5on5 workhorse defensemen look bad, Brouwer didn't have that kind of effect on Hamilton or Giordano. The bad puck luck seemed to follow Bennett to who ever he played with.

 

[Dack]

You mentioned he'd do better with "non-ridiculous deployement", I just added the zone starts in to show that it was pretty normal deployment, even pretty sheltered.

I'm not trying to hype Brouwer up, and I agree that luck probably played a big role in Bennett's year, I just don't see the argument for pointing to Brouwer as the cause of Bennett's misfortunes when Brouwer did much better away from Bennett than vice versa. Just looking at the rest of their WOWYs, Bennett managed to make your 5on5 workhorse defensemen look bad, Brouwer didn't have that kind of effect on Hamilton or Giordano. The bad puck luck seemed to follow Bennett to who ever he played with.

Oh the ridiculous deployment was more in reference to last season (2015-2016)when Bennett and Gaudreau were killing it on the first line for 6 games with a ~ 4% CFrel both averaging 2+ P/60 and had a 60% GF only for Gaudreau to be put on Monahans line to get him going, and Bennett going back to the wing or the bottom 6 basically getting demoted for doing well. It was also in reference to him being 10th on the team in PP time.

Also while Brouwers GF% with Hamilton and Gio was high I wouldn't bet on it staying that way. He absolutely cratered their CF% to the tune of an 11% difference when they were away from him.

 

[Aerchon]

Oilers fan here.

Lot of Flames fans totally fell for the Toronto Media hype that Bennet was the next Gilmour. Bennet had a ton of red flags that his game would not translate well to the NHL.

Now that he has failed to meet a very unrealistic hype Flames fans want him gone.

Bennet isn't Yak. He won't bust. He does too many things well to not have a long if unspectacular NHL career. His size, speed, IQ, and shot will always hold him back from being a star but all those things are NHL quality or close enough.

If his skating can improve a bit I see him as a solid two way top 6 winger that could score 25/25 a year. It will probably take him awhile to reach that tho. That's is a very good NHL player in todays NHL. Nothing wrong with that at all.

A cost controlled home grown prospect that eventually should be a solid depth contributor and isn't a gapping hole in the line up until that happens... Like Yak was.

Although I suppose if he bought all his own hype the guy will most likely have unreasonable expectation. Much like Yak.