Salary Cap (Taxes)

48g90a138pts

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Jun 30, 2016
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For tax advantaged teams, if it's approx 750k savings on 10mil salary, that equates to $6,112,500 extra to their cap.

That $6.1mil is a substantial advantage. If it wasn't a advantage there would never be any discussions about it.

:teach:
 

Legion34

Registered User
Jan 24, 2006
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The differences are very overhyped. There is a difference but it isn't millions per year per player.

A rough equivalent of 9.5M in Tampa is 10-10.25M in Toronto. (I swear to god if someone tried to use the clearly wrong CF calculator as proof it's more I'm gonna be so disappointed). If someone doesn't, believe me, I can (yet again) run through the numbers. If you read some of the Brayden Point Threads on the Trade Board, I've gone over the differences.

Also, the salary cap is for cost certainty, not for parity, so at the end of the day, fairness doesn't matter.

1.) parity one hundred percent is a part of the cap. That’s why all teams have the same cap number.

Otherwise. They could allow teams to buy cap space off other teams. Or allow big market teams to take up more of it. As long as the HRR cap adds to 50% it doesn’t matter that small market teams get less cap. It’s still cost certainty. That’s against the rules for a reason.

If Toronto got 101.5 million in cap. And Tampa got 61.5 million. That’s still cost certainty. But it’s not parity. Which is part of it.

2.) I left it in the other thread not to derail it. But you have to understand it’s ridiculous that you think that you are the sole authority on tax laws. More than actual accountants. Industry professionals. NHL presidents and GMs

You have your opinion. Based on Your understanding of it. Do you honestly think you know more than actual professionals? There is NO possibility in your mind that maybe. Just maybe you don’t know everything? There Might be something you are missing in your calculations.

Like when you didn’t know stamkos has full max bonuses instead of 50%.

Like you got to the point where you were disagreeing with actual people looking at their actual paycheques.

We get it. It’s a hobby for you. But it’s million dollar business and actual lively hood for some.

They have repeatedly said about 700k for 5 million ish contract. Which would work out to about a 1.4-1.5 ish deduction on a 10 million hit. Which adds up with multiple. Cap calculators. Multiple accountants and the words of players. And it makes sense.

Just roughly. If you look at all the big contracts and add about 1.5 to duchene. Stamkos. Kucherov. Hedman. That seems about right for market value.

Duchene took 1.5 less than skinner in a tax free market
Stamkos took 1.5-2 million less than kopitar. Kane. Toews.
Hedman took about 1.5 less than comparable D.

It kinda adds up.

You can believe it’s smaller based on Your calculations. Others can believe it’s bigger based on the word of industry professionals who do it for real with million dollar clients.
 
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BoredBrandonPridham

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Aug 9, 2011
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apparently Matthews has spent some of that money on upkeep on the new stache. Hope he grows it out to a big horseshoe mustache, hell he could wear a sombrero for a helmet if he scores 50 lol

The stache is actually part of his tax avoidance scheme so in a way it’s making him money.
 
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Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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It's a way overstated thing so that fans of Canadian teams can complain about how they deserve to get advantages to compensate for what they think are advantages of other teams. In reality the earning system in pro sports is ultra complicated and a lot more in depth than "players who play in Florida pay less taxes than players who play in Ontario".

Reading the average HF poster try and discuss the tax implications of the various states/provinces on here is like seeing someone with zero medical experience use Wikipedia to argue what kind of disease they've come down with based on a couple of symptoms.
 
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mouser

Business of Hockey
Jul 13, 2006
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I’m not whining. Simply want to know are the Canadian teams paying more because of the taxes. If so how fair is that? If a player like Marner was playing in TB could he have signed for a bit less? That’s my question. Or is Dubas just overpaying?

How fair is it that one country has higher taxes then another country? Or one province or state has higher taxes then another? How fair is that one country or state/province offers better benefits to residents?

I never understand why people think this is the NHL’s “problem” to solve? As opposed to advocating for lower taxes wherever you live if you think taxes are too high.
 

SupremeNachos

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Dec 6, 2011
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Meh. Even if everyone paid the same amount in taxes the next argument would be cost of living. I bet it's a lot cheaper to live in Dallas than Toronto or NY.
 
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Morrison

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Jul 5, 2007
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Agree 100%. People who don't understand taxes think it is as easy as saying (CAN + ONT vs. US + FLA). That isn't how it works, because players get taxed wherever the game is played. So a Maple Leafs player doesn't get taxed when playing a game in FLA just like a Lightning player. Obviously the Bolts and Panthers players play more games in FLA so they get a bigger benefit, but it isn't like they never pay state (or provincial) income taxes.

People think that the cap was put in primarily for parity purposes (actually for cost certainty), which isn't the case because if it was everyone would have to have their salary at the midpoint.

You talking about the base salaries which are paid during the regular season. Players who have signing bonuses in their contracts (different compensation) and lives in states like Florida, Nevada, Tennessee and Texas doesn't pay any state income taxes on these because the signing bonuses are paid mostly on July 1st, which the regular season haven't even started yet.
 

Beukeboom Fan

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You talking about the base salaries which are paid during the regular season. Players who have signing bonuses in their contracts (different compensation) and lives in states like Florida, Nevada, Tennessee and Texas doesn't pay any state income taxes on these because the signing bonuses are paid mostly on July 1st, which the regular season haven't even started yet.

What % of NHL salary is paid via signing bonus vs. regular salaries? Tax laws are incredibly complex, and can vary from each taxing jurisdiction. My point is that you cannot just look at the Ontario provincial tax vs. the Florida state tax rate and make a simple comparison.

The primary reason for the cap wasn't for competitive balance, because if it was all the NHL teams salaries would have to be at the midpoint.
 
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mikeyfan

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Dec 27, 2018
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How bout some teams charge a lot more for tickets than other teams yet they all have to play by the same cap limit. What is the cheapest ticket in Toronto? Compare that to an $10.00 Ticket at a Hurricanes game. Now which team can afford to be at the cap all the time?
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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It's crazy how you don't hear these discussions in the NFL or NHL. Hell, the biggest names in the NBA signed in California and NYC this offseason - yet nary a peep was made about going to OKC or Miami for the tax breaks.
 

The Macho King

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Jun 22, 2011
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I don't think it's fair that NYC players get easy access to Broadway shows and Michelin star rated restaurants. I don't think it's fair that California players don't have to pay hurricane insurance. I don't think it's fair that players that live *in* DC don't get a meaningful vote in federal elections due to them not having Congresspeople or Senators, and limited Electoral votes.

How do we calculate the cap for all of these inequities?
 

DFC

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Sep 26, 2013
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I don't think it's fair that NYC players get easy access to Broadway shows and Michelin star rated restaurants. I don't think it's fair that California players don't have to pay hurricane insurance. I don't think it's fair that players that live *in* DC don't get a meaningful vote in federal elections due to them not having Congresspeople or Senators, and limited Electoral votes.

How do we calculate the cap for all of these inequities?

Step 1: Edmonton gets a cap of $110m.
 

Hattrickkane88

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Apr 11, 2019
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Meh. Even if everyone paid the same amount in taxes the next argument would be cost of living. I bet it's a lot cheaper to live in Dallas than Toronto or NY.
Not really. There are tons of benefits to living in a high cost of living city like New York especially for millionaires yet there are zero benefits for paying more taxes so the two aren’t comparable. One has positives and negatives, the other is just plain negative.
 

Legion34

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Jan 24, 2006
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How fair is it that one country has higher taxes then another country? Or one province or state has higher taxes then another? How fair is that one country or state/province offers better benefits to residents?

I never understand why people think this is the NHL’s “problem” to solve? As opposed to advocating for lower taxes wherever you live if you think taxes are too high.

I don't think it's fair that NYC players get easy access to Broadway shows and Michelin star rated restaurants. I don't think it's fair that California players don't have to pay hurricane insurance. I don't think it's fair that players that live *in* DC don't get a meaningful vote in federal elections due to them not having Congresspeople or Senators, and limited Electoral votes.

How do we calculate the cap for all of these inequities?

You don’t. You didn’t impose an arbitrary broadway show cap because of loser teams that couldn’t make their own shows.

You imposed a salary cap. Make it fair

Why do fans of teams have to pay for loser teams that can’t get fan support.

Why should I care if Arizona has a team instead of say Houston?

Why is that the NHLs problem? There are other markets
 

Legion34

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Jan 24, 2006
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What % of NHL salary is paid via signing bonus vs. regular salaries? Tax laws are incredibly complex, and can vary from each taxing jurisdiction. My point is that you cannot just look at the Ontario provincial tax vs. the Florida state tax rate and make a simple comparison.

The primary reason for the cap wasn't for competitive balance, because if it was all the NHL teams salaries would have to be at the midpoint.

We can’t. Professional agents. Players and accountants. Can.

And have repeatedly showed it’s a huge difference
 

SupremeNachos

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Dec 6, 2011
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Not really. There are tons of benefits to living in a high cost of living city like New York especially for millionaires yet there are zero benefits for paying more taxes so the two aren’t comparable. One has positives and negatives, the other is just plain negative.
If there are tons why don't you name them?
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

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May 14, 2012
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It's crazy how you don't hear these discussions in the NFL or NHL. Hell, the biggest names in the NBA signed in California and NYC this offseason - yet nary a peep was made about going to OKC or Miami for the tax breaks.

Because the biggest NHL market just so happens to be in a state with high income taxes, and they also have a major player friendly salary structure. While a smaller market in a state with no state income tax has the most team-friendly salary structure in the NHL. So people have shifted to taxes to deflect blame from their rookie GM for creating that player friendly salary structure.

Make no mistake, if the Los Angeles Lakers’ Rookie GM got taken behind the shed by all of their RFAs and the San Antonio Spurs had a major team-friendly salary structure, you’d hear the same kind of complaints from fans of the LA Lakers. And that vocal minority, despite being generally disproven with facts, would continue to state their case.
 

AndreRoy

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Jan 3, 2018
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All the people whining about taxes need to stop. Every team has the same limit on how much they can pay their players; how much the government takes from those players after they’re paid is none of the league’s concern. Players with the ability to do so choose where they will play based on a number of factors that vary from person to person; income taxes are but one of many such factors that they consider. Unless the league is going to account for every single one of those (including property taxes, sales taxes, nightlife, weather, quality of local services, proximity to players’ hometowns, etc.) they’re much better off doing what they’re doing now: making rules that apply to every team equally and ignoring things that are out of their control.
 

AndreRoy

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Jan 3, 2018
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How fair is it that one country has higher taxes then another country? Or one province or state has higher taxes then another? How fair is that one country or state/province offers better benefits to residents?

I never understand why people think this is the NHL’s “problem” to solve? As opposed to advocating for lower taxes wherever you live if you think taxes are too high.

Exactly. Those of you whining about this do realize that the high taxes in your area will also affect YOU once you grow up and get jobs, right? I would think that would be a much greater concern for you than how much multi-millionaire athletes save on their taxes.
 

AndreRoy

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Jan 3, 2018
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Not really. There are tons of benefits to living in a high cost of living city like New York especially for millionaires yet there are zero benefits for paying more taxes so the two aren’t comparable. One has positives and negatives, the other is just plain negative.

And what exactly do you think pays for those benefits, if not taxes?
 
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nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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All I’m saying is in a cap world how fair can that be when taxes range from 30 percent to 50 percent from Dallas to anywhere in Canada? And I’m defending players in some US states with higher taxes. My question was because of higher taxes in some states or provinces are and do players ask and get more due to the take home being less?

How is it fair that the Leafs and similar teams can pay massive signing bonuses but smaller markets struggle?

How is it fair Leaf players get endorsement opportunities not given to smaller markets?

Get over yourselves, Dubas overpaid because he’s apparently not a great negotiator.
 

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