Salary Cap: Salary Cap: 2015 - insert witty title here

[Asuna]

Really? Dupuis belongs on the 4th line? Now I've heard it all.

He's someone who has a unique skillset on this team and could legitimately fit anywhere in the top 12 - and not look out of place. Will his lack of hands suck in the top 6? Absolutely. But his speed, forechecking, board play and defense would all be assets and a complement that would make up for what Kessel doesn't do. Or him on the 3rd line would make that a very good 3rd line.

But apparently in your mind he belongs on the 4th line.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Dupuis playing on the fourth line. He hasn't played in 2 years dude.

Start him out on the fourth, and if he plays well enough he can move up to the third.

 

[billybudd]

This very well might be them disliking Perron rather than liking Kunitz.

Bingo.

Understand that Perron has been passed over for a Russian rookie who can't understand the coaches' instructions and now an 18 year old kid from Holland who was drafted in the second round. Anyone thrashing around about "veteran preference" isn't paying attention (and Perron, himself, is a veteran, by the way).


If I had to guess what's going on here, it would be one of three things
1. They gave him summer homework and he didn't do it (he said he was working on his skating, but he's still moving in slow motion)
2. They think he's the forward who went minus 10 and pointless in 30 or so games in a row at this point in his career (there's some evidence of this from exhibitions)
3. Both

 

[drpepper]

The units - 1) Letang, Kessel, Crosby, Perron, Kunitz. 2) Maatta, Sprong, Malkin, Hornqvist, Plotnikov.

I like the second unit tbh.

On one hand there seems to be enough talent for two units, and obviously both Crosby & Malkin can get their preferred spot.

On the other hand, watching deployment last year, I think it is unlikely that the two units get even time on the PP, and at times the largest problem both units had was entering the zone on the PP. (Based on media tweets, I wonder how much the separate units actually practiced zone entries, but that is a slightly different issue.) I wonder if the two units will struggle with zone entries again.

 

[Shady Machine]

No I wouldn't. I would start him on the 2nd line LW.

That's my point Sprong is just something there looking at. If that wasn't the case Perron would be 3rd line RW with Bennett at 4th line RW.

Which again isn't ideal but not unbelievable or OMG coach is a buffoon.

I think your highly overblowing the fact that they need to see what their opening roster will look like in the preseason. One preseason game good or bad wont change anything to start the year.

I think you are missing the fact that Sprong may very well get a 9 game trial. They've seen a lot of him so far. He is in this game in that spot for a reason. It's very possible they could keep him around for a bit.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Dupuis is a 4th liner on this team. Period.

I don't care how fast he is, how much he'll dig for pucks, and how defensively capable he is. He's not a top-6 forward, and we're stocked full of better options for the 3rd line.

 

[Shady Machine]

Bingo.

Understand that Perron has been passed over for a Russian rookie who can't understand the coaches' instructions and now an 18 year old kid from Holland who was drafted in the second round. Anyone thrashing around about "veteran preference" isn't paying attention (and Perron, himself, is a veteran, by the way).


If I had to guess what's going on here, it would be one of three things
1. They gave him summer homework and he didn't do it (he said he was working on his skating, but he's still moving in slow motion)
2. They think he's the forward who went minus 10 and pointless in 30 or so games in a row at this point in his career (there's some evidence of this from exhibitions)
3. Both

You are likely correct. However, and I can't stress this enough, DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE TRADING A BIG ASSET FOR A PLAYER.

Perron has never been a fast skater. So I don't know what the hell they thought they were getting.

Furthermore, Agnew should have known him well in St Louis. The player he has been in Pittsburgh is the player he has been his entire career. He struggled down the stretch (we can go into the reasons for that, but I don't feel like it), but the type of skillset, strengths and weaknesses he is exhibiting here are the same ones he has had his entire career.

 

[drpepper]

No I wouldn't. I would start him on the 2nd line LW.

That's my point Sprong is just something there looking at. If that wasn't the case Perron would be 3rd line RW with Bennett at 4th line RW.

Which again isn't ideal but not unbelievable or OMG coach is a buffoon.

I think your highly overblowing the fact that they need to see what their opening roster will look like in the preseason. One preseason game good or bad wont change anything to start the year.

Perron as a RW on a team lacking skilled LWs is "OMG coach is a buffoon."

Bingo.

Understand that Perron has been passed over for a Russian rookie who can't understand the coaches' instructions and now an 18 year old kid from Holland who was drafted in the second round. Anyone thrashing around about "veteran preference" isn't paying attention (and Perron, himself, is a veteran, by the way).


If I had to guess what's going on here, it would be one of three things
1. They gave him summer homework and he didn't do it (he said he was working on his skating, but he's still moving in slow motion)
2. They think he's the forward who went minus 10 and pointless in 30 or so games in a row at this point in his career (there's some evidence of this from exhibitions)
3. Both

Perron's skating looks the best it has probably ever looked in his career. He's noticeably faster, and his edgework is beautiful. If his only homework was to improve his skating, he did. He's skating better than Hornqvist (who makes up for it in other ways) and Plotnikov (who isn't as slow as advertised but whose agility is limited.) Forgot Bonino, Bennett (who is better than last season but will never be the best skater), and Kunitz.

Looking at Perron's career and focusing only on a small sample (either preseason games or the end of last season) is a terrible way to evaluate talent, and another strike against the organization if that is what they are doing especially when the numbers picture for Kunitz (over both small and large sample sizes) is not positive.

Four games is not evidence of anything especially when he's being played on the wrong wing and with a very limited roster.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Perron's skating is no worse than Plotnikov, Hornqvist, Bennett, Bonino, or any number of guys. Can we stop with that stupid, tired cliche? Could his skating be better, and more explosive? Sure, so could a ton of guys'.

A guy doesn't need to be Pavel Bure to be an effective hockey player.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I think you are missing the fact that Sprong may very well get a 9 game trial. They've seen a lot of him so far. He is in this game in that spot for a reason. It's very possible they could keep him around for a bit.

I absolutely think that's why they want to get that look there. If Sprong get his 9 games and throws a wrench in things then they can work it out after that decision is made.

But for this particular game the only reason Perron is on the 4th line is because they really want to see Sprong and make a final decision.

 

[Shady Machine]

Perron's skating is no worse than Plotnikov, Hornqvist, Bennett, Bonino, or any number of guys. Can we stop with that stupid, tired cliche? Could his skating be better, and more explosive? Sure, so could a ton of guys'.

A guy doesn't need to be Pavel Bure to be an effective hockey player.

Agreed but if that's part of the reason, I go back to what I said above: DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE TRADING ASSETS FOR A GUY.

Perron is what he's always been. Skating a bit better than last year and on par with his career. His strengths and weaknesses are what they are.

If you don't think he fits into your top 6 now, then why trade a 2015 1st for him? Obviously that was before Kessel, but it doesn't matter. There isn't some formula that says you can only have one highly skilled winger in the top 6.

I mean we can make excuses and justify it all we want, but it's a pretty bad trade if they continue to use him in a 3rd or 4th line role.

 

[Shady Machine]

I absolutely think that's why they want to get that look there. If Sprong get his 9 games and throws a wrench in things then they can work it out after that decision is made.

But for this particular game the only reason Perron is on the 4th line is because they really want to see Sprong and make a final decision.

AND when they keep him around, what would you do with Perron? Why does Sprong, a right winger, make Perron, a left winger, move to the 4th line?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Perron as a RW on a team lacking skilled LWs is "OMG coach is a buffoon.".

Not optimal but nah not buffoonish. You have to remember Johnston and Tocchet highly prefer players playing on their on wing. And its not random, they have their reasons. It might not be the correct call in this context but its hardly unsubstantiated nonsense.

 

[drpepper]

Agreed but if that's part of the reason, I go back to what I said above: DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE TRADING ASSETS FOR A GUY.

Perron is what he's always been. Skating a bit better than last year and on par with his career. His strengths and weaknesses are what they are.

If you don't think he fits into your top 6 now, then why trade a 2015 1st for him? Obviously that was before Kessel, but it doesn't matter. There isn't some formula that says you can only have one highly skilled winger in the top 6.

I mean we can make excuses and justify it all we want, but it's a pretty bad trade if they continue to use him in a 3rd or 4th line role.

All the evidence from the NHL suggests that most GMs and coaches are not on the same page and in many cases don't discuss it when it comes to player acquisitions.

 

[Shady Machine]

Not optimal but nah not buffoonish. You have to remember Johnston and Tocchet highly prefer players playing on their on wing. And its not random, they have their reasons. It might not be the correct call in this context but its hardly unsubstantiated nonsense.

I appreciate the optimism and stuff, but it's not coincidence that Perron and Bennett are the ones being bumped down for Sprong's tryout. That's the big problem here.

Why couldn't they do this:

Perron-Bonino-Sprong
Dupuis-Cullen-Bennett

I know you want to give Farnham a game, so I don't know, how about we rest Duper? Again, why does it have to be Perron and Bennett that get moved down? The answer is obvious.

 

[Penguinsyay]

Just saw the lines. Pretty disturbing. Especially Bennett not being in the lineup. He's been one of our best players this preseason. At first I thought maybe it was because he had already played 4 games, but so have Plotnikov and Sprong.

They've made it pretty clear that Bennett is going to be playing during the regular season and that he is being given a breather this game. Why risk injury to an injury-prone player in a pre-season game when he has nothing left to prove? They want to give Farnham and Sprong bigger looks this game, so someone on the lower lines needed to sit.

People need to calm down. I am pretty sure Perron doesn't start the season as 4th line RW. They moved Sprong onto the third line to get a better look at him and Perron on the 4th line gives Farnham a better player to play with. It is a PRESEASON game, guys, they are assessing players and Farnham/Sprong are the only question marks for cracking the forward lineup.

 

[Wes Mantooth]

I thought everyone hated Perron. He had 3 pts in his last 19 games. Nothing in preseason. What caused the turnaround?

 

[Shady Machine]

All the evidence from the NHL suggests that most GMs and coaches are not on the same page and in many cases don't discuss it when it comes to player acquisitions.

Which is absolutely absurd to me. I'm not saying you are excusing it, but to say "well the rest of the league does it" is not a reasonable defense.

 

[Shady Machine]

I thought everyone hated Perron. He had 3 pts in his last 19 games. Nothing in preseason. What caused the turnaround?

You thought wrong.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

AND when they keep him around, what would you do with Perron? Why does Sprong, a right winger, make Perron, a left winger, move to the 4th line?

1. In a perfect world he moves to the top 6 with Kunitz packing his bags.

2. Perron isn't a LW on this team as of right now.

3. Regular season if Sprong is kept he might be on the 4th line with Perron on the 3rd. This could very well be for evaluation purposes only.

4. If Sprong is kept Perron or Bennett will be going back to the LW. Which could shake out many different ways. I don't think they want to start rearranging furniture unitl the final decision is made on Sprong.

 

[Pancakes]

Hopefully they're just resting Bennett or planned to hold him out of this one due to him reaching the number of games they wanted him to play.

 

[Shady Machine]

They've made it pretty clear that Bennett is going to be playing during the regular season and that he is being given a breather this game. Why risk injury to an injury-prone player in a pre-season game when he has nothing left to prove? They want to give Farnham and Sprong bigger looks this game, so someone on the lower lines needed to sit.

People need to calm down. I am pretty sure Perron doesn't start the season as 4th line RW. They moved Sprong onto the third line to get a better look at him and Perron on the 4th line gives Farnham a better player to play with. It is a PRESEASON game, guys, they are assessing players and Farnham/Sprong are the only question marks for cracking the forward lineup.

They have? Where's the evidence? Why does Bennett need a rest but Dupuis doesn't?

 

[lettuceAA]

It certainly is a lot tougher playing your off wing. Winning battles along the boards and receiving passes become much more difficult. Mind you some players can pull it off (mostly snipers) but it definitely affects other aspects of their game. It's completely understandable that a coach wants everyone played the strong wing, with that being said I don't think there is any harm in trying Perron or Bennett on their off wing, but if the coaches decide not to I'm not going to lose any sleep over it until I see how the team performs after 20 or so games.

Side note: Babcock was very adamant he didn't want any of his Dman playing their off side in the last Olympics.

 

[drpepper]

Not optimal but nah not buffoonish. You have to remember Johnston and Tocchet highly prefer players playing on their on wing. And its not random, they have their reasons. It might not be the correct call in this context but its hardly unsubstantiated nonsense.

What reasons? Why would they apply them to some players (Perron) & not others (Bennett)?

What other LWs do the Pens have?

There is no consistent or logical reason for Perron to be playing on the RW. The coaches are making a stupid and buffoonish decision.

 

[Shady Machine]

1. In a perfect world he moves to the top 6 with Kunitz packing his bags.

2. Perron isn't a LW on this team as of right now.

3. Regular season if Sprong is kept he might be on the 4th line with Perron on the 3rd. This could very well be for evaluation purposes only.

4. If Sprong is kept Perron or Bennett will be going back to the LW. Which could shake out many different ways. I don't think they want to start rearranging furniture unitl the final decision is made on Sprong.

How about in the real world?

What do you actually expect the Penguins to do?

 

[Waffle Fries]

They've made it pretty clear that Bennett is going to be playing during the regular season and that he is being given a breather this game. Why risk injury to an injury-prone player in a pre-season game when he has nothing left to prove? They want to give Farnham and Sprong bigger looks this game, so someone on the lower lines needed to sit.

People need to calm down. I am pretty sure Perron doesn't start the season as 4th line RW. They moved Sprong onto the third line to get a better look at him and Perron on the 4th line gives Farnham a better player to play with. It is a PRESEASON game, guys, they are assessing players and Farnham/Sprong are the only question marks for cracking the forward lineup.

How exactly have they made it clear that Bennett is going to be playing during the regular season?

Why does Farnham need a better player to play with? He doesn't need to play with skilled guys to play his game. Farnham and Perron on the same line makes very little sense. They couldn't be more different in their styles.