GDT: Sabres vs Kings 7 PM ET - TV:MSG Radio: WGR550 - 2024-25 Home Opener!

[Dubi Doo]

The “deserve to win “ meter is just another example of how hockey analytics is a pseudo science on par with astrology.

I’ll take an old timer’s “gut feeling” over whatever these number geeks are selling every day of the week.

Well, they were pretty clearly the better team. I saw it with my own two eyes. The issue is- I knew they were going to lose that game the moment the Kings tied it. But...even after the Kings tied we hit at least one post and had some good scoring chances. Unfortunately, it gave the Kings momentum, so they were getting their chances, too.

It really doesn't matter, anyways. They're already digging themselves into a hole. The fans are already booing (from what I read in this thread...I didn't hear it through the broadcast). There's little doubt in my mind they're going to sink more before getting a W, so I'm unfortunately feeling this is going to be another year where they spend the first few months trying to climb out of the hole they dug.

 

[OkimLom]

Isn't joker his partner? Jokiharu has been a pylon these first three games. Dahlin's game has it's warts, but no way Joker is helping with that.

While it's a legitimate concern, and I agree with your take on Joker's game, that hasn't stopped Dahlin in the past.

If the Sabres want to win games, they need Dahlin playing better. He's probably the most important player on the roster that they need fully engaged, even moreso than Tage. Dahlin's level of play, with him getting the C, with him being one of the players last season that said he wants accountability (IIRC), and the need for him to come out of the gates with a different vet-like attitude and playing mindset, he's by far the most concerning for me.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The drought hasn't ended lol, and it just keeps getting worse. It's a catch 22. They can't get past it until they accomplish something, but they can't accomplish something until they get past it.

I dunno how you fix it, we've replaced the entire team several times, and the coaches. There was a point where our top 6 had a lot of serviceable to great players in Eichel, Reinhart, ROR, Kane, etc. The only consistent thing is every iteration of the drought era teams is they all are/get some variation of snakebitten.

Don't think anyone here will say Tage Thompson doesn't know how to score goals. You don't get almost 50 in the NHL by accident.

Don't you fix it by simply getting a GM with previous experience, like everyone else who has had success? Seems like a formula that's easy to copy, yet something Buffalo hasn't tried this century.

You can hire someone who has been successful elsewhere, it's common sense but the one thing that only the Sabres never, ever do.

The one thing that has never worked, is finding success by cycling through a series of first-time GMs because they're the only ones who are willing to work under the owner's conditions. It's never going to work.

 

[BFLO]

The most concerning for me is Dahlin, who has 0 points, -4 on the season, has 5 SOG total. And it's not just the number counting, but he's regressed into a shell of his abilities over the past few seasons with his play, especially on the offense. He's supposed to be a dynamic player on the ice, and he just looks like a bottom pairing journeyman to me.

Dahlin looked great his first 3 or 4 shifts game 1 against NJ. But yeah. Ever since then he’s been a shell. Deeply concerning.

 

[GellMann]

The “deserve to win “ meter is just another example of how hockey analytics is a pseudo science on par with astrology.

I’ll take an old timer’s “gut feeling” over whatever these number geeks are selling every day of the week.

i'm not an analytics simp either, but they're right in their unemotional diagnosis of this game. I was there watching with my eyes and i can't remember the kings doing anything with the puck. They were garbage. We just can't score because we don't have skill

But the Kings were f***ing atrocious, and the Sabres skated all over them even without being able to finish. My gut felt that, my eyes saw it, and the numbers say it. I'm not saying any of this matters, it doesn't, we have 0 points so far

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Don't you fix it by simply getting a GM with previous experience, like everyone else who has had success? Seems like a formula that's easy to copy, yet something Buffalo hasn't tried this century.

You can hire someone who has been successful elsewhere, it's common sense but the one thing that only the Sabres never, ever do.

The one thing that has never worked, is finding success by cycling through a series of first-time GMs because they're the only ones who are willing to work under the owner's conditions. It's never going to work.

This i definitely agree with. I think adams was a great fit when he took over and had to change the culture in the locker room. He has made a couple decent moves. He has had his share of flubs. The issue now is he seems incapable of getting them into playoff contender territory. There have been a lot great candidates on the market over the last few years. I wish Pegula was more willing to part with his yes man.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I know Johnson played with the big club towards the end of last season, but i am unfamiliar with his game. Is he more offensive or defensive minded?

Defensive, with strong smooth skating being his strongest trait.

 

[Dreakon13]

Don't you fix it by simply getting a GM with previous experience, like everyone else who has had success? Seems like a formula that's easy to copy, yet something Buffalo hasn't tried this century.

You can hire someone who has been successful elsewhere, it's common sense but the one thing that only the Sabres never, ever do.

The one thing that has never worked, is finding success by cycling through a series of first-time GMs because they're the only ones who are willing to work under the owner's conditions. It's never going to work.

That might make us feel a little better about where it's heading... but I don't think Tage is thinking about how much experience the GM has when he misses the net on a breakaway, or when Dahlin turns the puck over at the line with an ill advised deke and two opposing players hounding him.

I think the issue is bigger and more complicated than any one piece, though I don't disagree that if this season goes the way it's heading, that Adams has run his course and they do need to try a GM with a track record of success.

 

[1point21Gigawatts]

Defensive, with strong smooth skating being his strongest trait.

I wonder if Sammy didn't have a down year last year, if we would have moved him this past offseason. He seems like one of the odd men out but his value is in the tank.

 

[Fjordy]

While it's a legitimate concern, and I agree with your take on Joker's game, that hasn't stopped Dahlin in the past.

If the Sabres want to win games, they need Dahlin playing better. He's probably the most important player on the roster that they need fully engaged, even moreso than Tage. Dahlin's level of play, with him getting the C, with him being one of the players last season that said he wants accountability (IIRC), and the need for him to come out of the gates with a different vet-like attitude and playing mindset, he's by far the most concerning for me.

Maybe he's worried about the injury he had in preseason? The season before last, Dahlin was Norris-level, he had better metrics than Makar and Fox. Last season, he still became the team's top scorer, but he wasn't as bright, on the other hand, the whole team fell off a cliff.This season is still unclear.

I read on another forum that Dahlin had his appendix removed a few weeks before camp, maybe he needed more time to recover? I think Gibson from Anaheim also faced this and he hasn't returned to the game yet. Well at least I hope he doesn't have a hernia.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Deserved a win, but coulda-shoulda-woulda doesn't cut it. An 0-4 start after the Florida game is a distinct possibility.

Maybe it's too early for this, but I'm beginning to wonder what a shakeup would like like.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

We've been singing the same song and dance for seasons now.

"If they play like 'this' or they play like 'that' they win most nights". But those nights where they win never come consistently, and sure as hell don't come consistently enough to accomplish anything. They've had so many nights like that over the years, that the thought is just a bunch of bull****. They've played exactly how we thought they COULD play to win a game only to lose it way too many times. Eventually that idea loses it's meaning, and it's just ignorant optimism.

They don't win enough, because they aren't good enough. They didn't play good, they played BETTER than their opponent for the majority of the game. Good teams AT least are able to cash in on 5 on 3's. Even the worse-playing Kings were able to do so, and even at crunch time.

Enough with the "morale" victories. They don't add points to the standings.

I've joined the chorus of naysayers. I am no longer satisfied to be complacent about this team growing and developing. I intend to be unreasonable and irrational in my distain for how this season progresses until I see some tangible improvements via WINS.

Moral or analytical victories are no longer acceptable. We.Have.Lost.Enough.

 

[toddkaz]

That is a very weird stat lol. 0-3 mine as well head to the draft and prep for it.

It was in response to the 13 year drought comment you made. And yes Murray and Botts are responsible for a good majority of the drought.

"Thats a very weird stat lol..." Why? What makes it weird?

We play Florida next. Wonder what the odds are of an 0-4 team making the playoffs?

 

[CowbellConray]

The Sabres shouldn't be compared with any other actual NHL team, the King's with their core (old and new) have had success and playoffs. What other teams do and what the Sabres have done in the past are not the same.

Compare the Sabres to AHL teams.

When you use such a jaded premise on this discussion it takes away from the actual conversation. The Sabres have disappointed. They aren't scoring. They have lost their first three games, and tomorrow play the Panthers who are a machine. Nobody wants this. With that said, they aren't the worst team in the league, and this past game had positives within it's overall negative result.

I compare the Sabres to what I believe the standard needs to be for them to be successful. But this whole "the Sabres are like AHL teams blah blah blah" is just nonsense to cope for frustration. Which I understand, but it doesn't exactly lead to any enjoyable discussion for anyone

 

[Willgamesh]

UPDATE: I changed my avatar from Jack Quinn so he will now score vs Florida or at least register 2 shots on goal. You're Welcome.

 

[Beerz]

The most concerning for me is Dahlin, who has 0 points, -4 on the season, has 5 SOG total. And it's not just the number counting, but he's regressed into a shell of his abilities over the past few seasons with his play, especially on the offense. He's supposed to be a dynamic player on the ice, and he just looks like a bottom pairing journeyman to me.

I'm not sure what it is...is he still hurt? Is he consciously scaling back? But yeah.. the aggressiveness just isn't in his game right now both offensively and physically. I don't think he has played "bad" but he isn't being who we need him to be.

 

[SundherDome]

"Thats a very weird stat lol..." Why? What makes it weird?

We play Florida next. Wonder what the odds are of an 0-4 team making the playoffs?

It's a weird stat because staring 0-3 shouldn't be met with well only 5 teams have done it and made the playoffs, there are so many different factors that play into a teams success. I would expect a lot of playoff teams might lose 3 or 4 in a row this year.

Considering Ottawa handled Florida, I wouldn't say it is a given that we will be 0-4, but we will see

 

[Mattilaus]

It's a weird stat because staring 0-3 shouldn't be met with well only 5 teams have done it and made the playoffs, there are so many different factors that play into a teams success. I would expect a lot of playoff teams might lose 3 or 4 in a row this year.

Considering Ottawa handled Florida, I wouldn't say it is a given that we will be 0-4, but we will see

Ottawa is a far better team than us IMO. They just had historically bad goaltending last year. Their GM went out and fixed it by getting ullmark despite ullmark not wanting to go there. Then Their GM was able to extend ullmark.

I honestly don't feel like we are in the same class as Ottawa with good goaltending. We don't have a Tkachuk or a stutzle.

 

[Zman5778]

UPDATE: I changed my avatar from Jack Quinn so he will now score vs Florida or at least register 2 shots on goal. You're Welcome.

So you're putting your curse onto Josh Allen?????

I'm not so sure that's a good trade..........

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Losers, that's all. Dahlin's defence?

 

[Willgamesh]

So you're putting your curse onto Josh Allen?????

I'm not so sure that's a good trade..........

Well Josh has already been cursed the past 2 games so were hoping they cancel each other out. 300+yds 3 TD's 0 Ints and a Davante Adams trade post game<< D Hop or Cooper are also acceptable

Losers, that's all. Dahlin's defence?

I think he always starts slow and missed all of pre season + almost every practice he will get going.

 

[old kummelweck]

Losers, that's all. Dahlin's defence?

Nagging injury?

 

[BFLO]

Well Josh has already been cursed the past 2 games so were hoping they cancel each other out. 300+yds 3 TD's 0 Ints and a Davante Adams trade post game<< D Hop or Cooper are also acceptable


I think he always starts slow and missed all of pre season + almost every practice he will get going.

Dahlin always starts slow? He had an 8 game point streak that began in game 2 of last season. The year before that he scored a goal in each of the first 5 games.

 

[joshjull]

The most concerning for me is Dahlin, who has 0 points, -4 on the season, has 5 SOG total. And it's not just the number counting, but he's regressed into a shell of his abilities over the past few seasons with his play, especially on the offense. He's supposed to be a dynamic player on the ice, and he just looks like a bottom pairing journeyman to me.

I agree he hasn’t looked good or remotely dynamic so far this season.

But the idea that he regressed offensively last season is simply not true. Last season among NHL dmen he was tied for 3rd most goals with a career high 20 goals (15 was his previous best). He was also 10th overall in total points (59pts). Hardly the stats of a “bottom pairing journeyman”.

His overall point total dropping from 73pts to 59pts (14pt drop) was largely a product of the inept PP. He had 12 fewer points on the PP than the previous year. It was all assists, he had the same amount of PP goals as the year prior.

 

[Willgamesh]

Dahlin always starts slow? He had an 8 game point streak that began in game 2 of last season. The year before that he scored a goal in each of the first 5 games.

Should of clarified more i meant his preseasons in 22-24 5GP 0 pts - 6 I think him missing virtually all of the preseason and training camp hurt. He did look good yesterday except for the lazy play at the start of the 3rd.