Dr Quincy
Registered User
- Jun 19, 2005
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Taking value out of it, if MTL were going to deal that package it would be for a LHD.Risto/Sobotka for Danault/Suzuki
Taking value out of it, if MTL were going to deal that package it would be for a LHD.Risto/Sobotka for Danault/Suzuki
The issue with Ristolainen, I suspect, is simply that he's overpaid. No one has cap space and that's not changing for the rest of that contract. And most GMs now won't pay much to take on a gamble.
I'm sure he'd be in high demand at $3m. Maybe the sabres should retain. Probably get a good haul for him.
But I guess that defeats the purpose of unloading the big contract.
it just seems team depth, role & useage are still lost on many. Risto needs to be used more along the likes of Yandle or Dumba. These guys are near 55% O zone starts compared to Ristos 45%. At just 20 he was being used at 60% D zone starts, 60%! That's ridiculous. People are acting like he's 'trash' along the likes of Luke Schenn or Ceci.
Again, shift his useage & role with a now deeper D group, he's just 24, give him easier minutes and 55% OZS's like many other 'offensive Top 4' guys have played during their careers up to this point. He's going to be fine, whether its in Buffalo or elsewhere.
I don't understand how getting easier minutes with more offensive zone starts would mute his ability to gain more 5o5 points, that doesn't make much sense to me. He has enough trouble when he starts in his own end and then has to transition up ice to settle in offensively. We've seen that is the big problem based on his advanced stats. Flip his dzs/ozs %, until we see this I'm not sure its fair to speculate one way or another on how his 'stats' will be effected.I think everybody understands that. But with that better usage, you can also expect his points to decrease, so, while his big flaw might be masked, his biggest strength will also be somewhat muted.
Role and usage are a big thing, but -41 is just really, really massive. There've been a lot of misused defensemen on a lot of really bad teams, but only one other guy has reached that number in the cap era.
Not many people are saying Risto sucks. But we're saying his value is probably around a 4/5, puck-moving/PP specialist, which doesn't get you the kind of 60ish point player most Sabre fans are looking for here.
I honestly don't think people understand just how dreadful this team has been. Over the past 5 years we aren't just a strong contender for worst team in hockey of the past 50 years, we are a strong contender for worst team in all of pro sports of the past 50 years.I think everybody understands that. But with that better usage, you can also expect his points to decrease, so, while his big flaw might be masked, his biggest strength will also be somewhat muted.
Role and usage are a big thing, but -41 is just really, really massive. There've been a lot of misused defensemen on a lot of really bad teams, but only one other guy has reached that number in the cap era.
Not many people are saying Risto sucks. But we're saying his value is probably around a 4/5, puck-moving/PP specialist, which doesn't get you the kind of 60ish point player most Sabre fans are looking for here.
Not many people are saying Risto sucks. But we're saying his value is probably around a 4/5, puck-moving/PP specialist, which doesn't get you the kind of 60ish point player most Sabre fans are looking for here.
I don't understand how getting easier minutes with more offensive zone starts would mute his ability to gain more 5o5 points, that doesn't make much sense to me. He has enough trouble when he starts in his own end and then has to transition up ice to settle in offensively. We've seen that is the big problem based on his advanced stats. Flip his dzs/ozs %, until we see this I'm not sure its fair to speculate one way or another on how his 'stats' will be effected.
I believe most Sabres fans have acknowledged both his warts as well as his shiny attributes.He'll probably get a few more 5v5 points. Maybe. The decreased time will limit the increase, and he's unlikely to be the kind of PP QB he was/is in Buffalo. He's never put up many 5v5 points. He'll get a few more with a better offense, but that'll be balanced by fewer minutes. So he's unlikely to crack 40 on a team with a legit #1D, because the PP points won't be there.
I understand that some people are blowing his negatives out of proportion, but some Sabres fans are pretending they don't exist, and that he's a 40 point Dman in a bad situation. Well, that's sort of true, but it only says the good things while leaving out all of the bad.
Because Buffalo's GM has made moves to shore up the RHD position (Montour, Miller, still have Bogo and some solid young depth) and it's been reported he's also in on Gardiner at LHD.I mean if he's so good why does Buffalo not even want him? Seems fishy
We hope to find a GM who's not as smart as you.I mean if he's so good why does Buffalo not even want him? Seems fishy
Well of course he has really bad +/- he plays the most TOI on the team by a mile.......more time to get minuses especially on a team that's really bad overall at even strength the only exceptions are standouts like Eichel, Skinner, and Reinhart who had respectable +/- despite being on a really bad team too bad Risto also has to play with Sobotka, Thompson, etc on regularity.So when you have huge negative numbers every year.... and are the worst or near the worst on your team...
is it possible that YOU are a big part of the reason the team isn't any good? And perhaps aren't very good at NHL hockey?
The rumor (from Renaud Lavoie) is that the Risto trade stuff is ”player driven”. Lavoie was careful not to say that Ristolainen requested a trade though.I mean if he's so good why does Buffalo not even want him? Seems fishy
No, not that I know of. It’s been pretty quiet.is there any recent news on this? i went back two pages and it looks like radio silence.
Zone starts don't have that big of an impact. Many shifts start in the flow of play or on NZ faceoffs.I don't understand how getting easier minutes with more offensive zone starts would mute his ability to gain more 5o5 points, that doesn't make much sense to me. He has enough trouble when he starts in his own end and then has to transition up ice to settle in offensively. We've seen that is the big problem based on his advanced stats. Flip his dzs/ozs %, until we see this I'm not sure its fair to speculate one way or another on how his 'stats' will be effected.
Risto gets outscored badly when he plays with Eichel. Risto gets outscored badly when he plays with the 4th line. At some point one must wonder if it is Risto's fault.Well of course he has really bad +/- he plays the most TOI on the team by a mile.......more time to get minuses especially on a team that's really bad overall at even strength the only exceptions are standouts like Eichel, Skinner, and Reinhart who had respectable +/- despite being on a really bad team too bad Risto also has to play with Sobotka, Thompson, etc on regularity.
Anaheim please.
I don't understand how getting easier minutes with more offensive zone starts would mute his ability to gain more 5o5 points, that doesn't make much sense to me. He has enough trouble when he starts in his own end and then has to transition up ice to settle in offensively. We've seen that is the big problem based on his advanced stats. Flip his dzs/ozs %, until we see this I'm not sure its fair to speculate one way or another on how his 'stats' will be effected.
Zone starts and quality of competition don't have to be the total measure of how good a D is, but it shows how the coach used the players. It shows that Risto was used as a shutdown D. There were 6 D on the team with a higher offensive zone starts percent, and he was at the top of quality of competition.
Any stat is flawed, but this is clearly better than something like plus minus. It also gives any team thinking of trading for him some thought that maybe there is an opportunity to get more out of him if he's used differently.
So what do you see as his strengths since you gave your opinion oh how bad he is? Just curiousThe funny thing is he's not even a good puck mover as his first pass is non existent and he was terrible on the PP last season. He was a fairly good PP QB the years prior but for whatever reason last season he was terrible at keeping the puck in at the line last season.
Honestly I would be more comfortable saying he does suck than saying he's a #4. He's been a train wreck defensively his entire career, in over his head sure but I have watched just as many 3rd and 4th liners abuse him as I have 1st line players. You don't put up the negative numbers he does by only getting burned by star players. He's not great offensively despite putting up decent points. Dimitri Filipovic described Risto's point totals as empty calorie points and I would agree. He doesn't move the puck quickly, he's not a great passer, he's not a good skater, but he's above average on the PP. There's no quantifiable quality to his game where you can look at and say "that's where his points come from" other than the sheer amount of ice time he gets leading to brute force points.
Yup, that's it right there. What Risto's performance in the role he's been used in tells you is he's no prime Zdeno Chara, and you're gonna have a bad time if you use him like he is. It's a far leap from "not an elite shutdown D" to "bottom pairing PP specialist" (as some are claiming Risto is). There's still plenty of reason to believe Risto could succeed in a role between those 2 extremes.