Friedman: Sabres gauging the market on Byram

[Djp]

IMO nothing in Byram's performance in the NHL suggests another team should give Rust and a pretty high 1st for him.

Him being young is basically all he has going for him. His performance in the NHL hasn't been very good.

The posted offer was not byram for 12
+ rust but byram and 9 for 12 and rust.

9>> 12
Byram>> Rust

 

[Empoleon8771]

Now sell a 33 year old who has had pedestrian goal numbers for majority of his career and a magic bean.

"Pedestrian goal totals"

He has 152 goals in 385 games his last 6 seasons, which is 25 goals a year and 32 goals per 82 games. How exactly is that "pedestrian"?

I don't really care if it makes sense for the Sabres, I don't think the Penguins should be trading Rust and a high 1st rounder for Byram. If Sabres fans think they can get better than that for him, you should go try to find that.

The posted offer was not byram for 12
+ rust but byram and 9 for 12 and rust.

9>> 12
Byram>> Rust

No it wasn't. It was Rust, #11 and #12 for Byram and #9.

 

[Beerz]

"Pedestrian goal totals"

He has 152 goals in 385 games his last 6 seasons, which is 25 goals a year and 32 goals per 82 games. How exactly is that "pedestrian"?

You don't get credit for unrealized goals.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You don't get credit for unrealized goals.

I didn't mention pace as the only metric. Even if you look purely at his average, he's at 25 goals per season. Which would consistently be 3rd-5th on the Sabres in every year in the last decade.

 

[Djp]

2 questions
1. Is Devon Levi still the goalie of the future
2. Are Luukkonens numbers last season regression, or just a bad team in front of him?

1. Levi is not getting traded. Hes viewed as future goalie

2.UPL had a bit of a down year but it wasnt all on him. The team Defense didn't perform well.

The prior year the team focused on defense and GA went down, GF also went down (PP tanked from top 8 to bottom 8). This past year they did well on 5v5 scoring but PP and Pk were not good.

 

[Satanphonehome]

Means nothing for how good of a player he is, especially today when he won a cup years ago.



Like I said, he's young and has played a lot in the NHL as a young player. That doesn't mean his performance has been good. Jack Johnson played a ton as a young NHLer and his results were also similarly shitty.



If you have to cling to "toolbox" and "intangibles" to say his performance in the NHL has been good, that just says his performance in the NHL hasn't been good.

From Sabres fans from a thread I found:

Player Discussion Thread 'Final Season Grades, Part 1: The Defense'

Apr 21, 2025

I've been sitting on some of this for a few days but here is part 1.

On Defense:

Marty Wilford: F as in f*** Off. Please take him and his oversized chin and fire them into the sun. No one he has worked with has markedly improved their game. I would assert that several key members of the unit have regressed season on season with him as their coach in Power and Samuelsson. The only player who has seemed to grow was Dahlin – the guy who was marked to be the next great defenseman, 1OA, who still has things in his game that need to be better. He cannot, must not return in any capacity and...

• Chainshot
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Buffalo Sabres

• 

I'm not going to act like Byram is terrible, he clearly has tools and there is definitely upside there. But clinging to "he won a cup years ago on a different team", "he scores a lot compared to other U-24 defensemen" and "his intangibles" just shows how flimsy of a case you actually have for saying he has been good.

How do you define good and how many young defencemen qualify?

 

[Beerz]

I didn't mention pace as the only metric. Even if you look purely at his average, he's at 25 goals per season. Which would consistently be 3rd-5th on the Sabres in every year in the last decade.

So why even mention it? That is the dumbest stat thrown around these boards.

I'd love to see some forwards on the Sabres numbers riding shotgun with Crosby...but alas.

Rust is old. Has a hard time staying in the lineup and has benefited from playing with one of the best NHL centers in the history of the game.

No thanks.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How do you define good and how many young defencemen qualify?

You can point to a number of things. Good production (which Byram has), good on-ice results, good basic stats and whatnot are all things to mention.

I'm not acting like Byram is horrid here. I think his production has been very good at 5v5, but the on-ice results in both Colorado before the trade and Buffalo since the trade have been terrible. He has upside and has shown it in the NHL, namely with how he dominated in the cup finals a couple years ago for Colorado. But that hasn't been consistent in the NHL at all.

I would do a #11 pick and some lesser futures for Byram, but Rust and the #11 pick for Byram is just way too much in my eyes. I view Byram more as a Matheson type of defenseman right now, an extremely toolsy defenseman that hasn't played up to his skills but has the potential to be really good.

So why even mention it? That is the dumbest stat thrown around these boards.

I'd love to see some forwards on the Sabres numbers riding shotgun with Crosby...but alas.

Rust is old. Has a hard time staying in the lineup and has benefited from playing with one of the best NHL centers in the history of the game.

No thanks.

Neat, Rust isn't an appealing asset for Buffalo. Doesn't change that Rust and #11 for Byram isn't a deal Pittsburgh should be doing, because Byram's performance in the NHL hasn't warranted paying that price for him.

Again, I'm literally pulling quotes from Sabres fans saying that Byram has problems and hasn't been good for them. You can say "well Rust isn't what we want!" but that doesn't address the conversation about Byram.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Isn’t it a badly kept secret that Byram has been terrible recently?

 

[is the answer jesus]

I didn't mention pace as the only metric. Even if you look purely at his average, he's at 25 goals per season. Which would consistently be 3rd-5th on the Sabres in every year in the last decade.

Do we also get Sidney Crosby to prop him up for his past his prime twilight years?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Do we also get Sidney Crosby to prop him up for his past his prime twilight years?

You should probably ask the boatload of GMs who are interested in Rust according to LeBrun

Like sure, I can totally understand why Buffalo wouldn't want to do Byram for a deal around Rust. Both can be true that the Penguins shouldn't do Rust and #11 for Byram while also the Sabres shouldn't trade Byram for a package headline by Rust.

This is just saying "well we say no harder!" in response to me saying "the Penguins shouldn't trade Rust and a 1st for Byram".

 

[is the answer jesus]

Isn’t it a badly kept secret that Byram has been terrible recently?

Meh depends what you mean. He was absolutely elite with Dahlin this season. Away from him, not so much. There's absolutely a good offensive player there for a team that needs that type of player. Honestly I'd keep him over Owen Power, but it seems Adams has already decided he's the odd man out.

 

[DesertPenguin]

"Pedestrian goal totals"

He has 152 goals in 385 games his last 6 seasons, which is 25 goals a year and 32 goals per 82 games. How exactly is that "pedestrian"?

I don't really care if it makes sense for the Sabres, I don't think the Penguins should be trading Rust and a high 1st rounder for Byram. If Sabres fans think they can get better than that for him, you should go try to find that.



No it wasn't. It was Rust, #11 and #12 for Byram and #9.

It was my post, and Emp is correct.

 

[Beerz]

You can point to a number of things. Good production (which Byram has), good on-ice results, good basic stats and whatnot are all things to mention.

I'm not acting like Byram is horrid here. I think his production has been very good at 5v5, but the on-ice results in both Colorado before the trade and Buffalo since the trade have been terrible. He has upside and has shown it in the NHL, namely with how he dominated in the cup finals a couple years ago for Colorado. But that hasn't been consistent in the NHL at all.

I would do a #11 pick and some lesser futures for Byram, but Rust and the #11 pick for Byram is just way too much in my eyes. I view Byram more as a Matheson type of defenseman right now, an extremely toolsy defenseman that hasn't played up to his skills but has the potential to be really good.



Neat, Rust isn't an appealing asset for Buffalo. Doesn't change that Rust and #11 for Byram isn't a deal Pittsburgh should be doing, because Byram's performance in the NHL hasn't warranted paying that price for him.

Again, I'm literally pulling quotes from Sabres fans saying that Byram has problems and hasn't been good for them. You can say "well Rust isn't what we want!" but that doesn't address the conversation about Byram.

I don't give a shit about a proposed deal... you tore down Byram .... I tore down Rust.

Your defense of Rust is much worse than the posters argument for Byram.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't give a shit about a proposed deal... you tore down Byram .... I tore down Rust.

Your defense of Rust is much worse than the posters argument for Byram.

Lmao sure whatever you want to say bud

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Meh depends what you mean. He was absolutely elite with Dahlin this season. Away from him, not so much. There's absolutely a good offensive player there for a team that needs that type of player. Honestly I'd keep him over Owen Power, but it seems Adams has already decided he's the odd man out.

I just remember seeing one of those graded scorecard type of images and it was shockingly bad. I realize that hockey is probably the worst sport for advanced stats and that those types of player grading are heavily skewed for and against certain types of players, but it was eye opening

 

[Djp]

"Pedestrian goal totals"

He has 152 goals in 385 games his last 6 seasons, which is 25 goals a year and 32 goals per 82 games. How exactly is that "pedestrian"?

.who was his center? That matters. How much on ES vs PP

I don't really care if it makes sense for the Sabres, I don't think the Penguins should be trading Rust and a high 1st rounder for Byram. If Sabres fans think they can get better than that for him, you should go try to find that.

Rust isold and likely falls off a cliff in 2 yrs. If Buffalo plans to contend for a cup in 3-4 yrs he won't be a part of it. Id rather get a F who is 22-27 yrs old in return

To move from 12 to 9 costs a 2nd+ on average. In this draft that it appears you be a much bigger drop would cost more

No it wasn't. It was Rust, #11 and #12 for Byram and #9.

You said rust and a high first for byram. That implies 9= other 1st

 

[DesertPenguin]

I think this thread is pretty indicative of the problems in Buffalo. Rust is a guy that would be wearing the C for half the franchises in the league. A leader in the locker room who has won it all and played big in those games. Mentor to young players. Considering how many young players have underwhelmed in Buffalo and how almost every player is clamoring to get out, culture change through veteran leadership looks to be sorely needed in that room. But they won't get it.

 

[is the answer jesus]

You should probably ask the boatload of GMs who are interested in Rust according to LeBrun

Like sure, I can totally understand why Buffalo wouldn't want to do Byram for a deal around Rust. Both can be true that the Penguins shouldn't do Rust and #11 for Byram while also the Sabres shouldn't trade Byram for a package headline by Rust.

This is just saying "well we say no harder!" in response to me saying "the Penguins shouldn't trade Rust and a 1st for Byram".

Good on Pittsburgh if they can get great value for Rust. It's certainly nice to be a seller when 3/4 of the league is looking to buy. So I think you guys will do OK selling your guys off. I can simply say I don't want my team being the suckers to pay top dollar for a past his prime winger who's been riding Crosby's coat tails. It isn't to say "we say no harder", but simply to point out your player also has potential red flags.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Good on Pittsburgh if they can get great value for Rust. It's certainly nice to be a seller when 3/4 of the league is looking to buy. So I think you guys will do OK selling your guys off. I can simply say I don't want my team being the suckers to pay top dollar for a past his prime winger who's been riding Crosby's coat tails. It isn't to say "we say no harder", but simply to point out your player also has potential red flags.

I don't disagree here, I was just talking from the Penguins POV. I don't blame the Sabres for saying no for any reason either, I just don't think the Penguins should do that deal. It's okay if both sides want to say no, I just think saying "well we don't want Rust either" doesn't really address my initial point.

IMO the interesting deal for the Penguins and Sabres to discuss is if the Penguins can sell Rust or Rakell to LA for Spence and draft picks, and then flip Spence to Buffalo for Quinn. I think Byram is a guy that the Penguins won't want to pay the price he costs while Buffalo wouldn't like the assets the Penguins could offer for him.

 

[is the answer jesus]

I think this thread is pretty indicative of the problems in Buffalo. Rust is a guy that would be wearing the C for half the franchises in the league. A leader in the locker room who has won it all and played big in those games. Mentor to young players. Considering how many young players have underwhelmed in Buffalo and how almost every player is clamoring to get out, culture change through veteran leadership looks to be sorely needed in that room. But they won't get it.

Having vets as role models and to insulate the youth is absolutely something that's been missing in Buffalo. I'd overpay for players that have those intangibles and look like they'd be contributors moving forward. The problem being Rust is at the age where the wheels tend to fall off pretty quick and he's been propped up by a generational talent in Crosby. He's absolutely in the buyer beware category for me. This isn't to say Byram is a player without warts but the beauty is he just turned 24, is fresh off a pretty damn good offensive season which I viewed as a significant step forward in his development. He'll never be great in his own end and he'll need a team that knows how to use him properly, unfortunately that isn't going to be in Buffalo.

 

[Satanphonehome]

.

I would do a #11 pick and some lesser futures for Byram.I view Byram more as an extremely toolsy defenseman that hasn't played up to his skills but has the potential to be really good.

.

These are entirely valid, defensible opinions.

Mine is that Byram proved last year he can play as a very effective complement to an elite NHL defenceman on a legitimate NHL top pairing. He and Dahlin topped the NHL with a 70% goals for share.

I also think that his offensive game is underrated given his lack of PP time (Makar, Dahlin, he is a top 20 ES scorer among NHL defencemen) and his defensive game is below average (inexperience, most would be surprised to learn he’s played less than 250 NHL games).

He’s a decent offensive-leaning #3 right now, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he develops in the next year or 2 into a good all-around #2 in the right situation, given his attitude and skillset.

A team would be foolish IMO to trade him with any 34-year-old winger as the main piece coming back, but your mileage may vary. Pick 11 certainly adds value, but I still wouldn’t do it: a long-term asset for a short-term asset and a lottery ticket is not the type of trade the Sabres should be making.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I think this thread is pretty indicative of the problems in Buffalo. Rust is a guy that would be wearing the C for half the franchises in the league. A leader in the locker room who has won it all and played big in those games. Mentor to young players. Considering how many young players have underwhelmed in Buffalo and how almost every player is clamoring to get out, culture change through veteran leadership looks to be sorely needed in that room. But they won't get it.

Sabres fans know that. But that doesn’t mean you get to rip them off on deals.

 

[nickdawg95]

rust and 12 for byram

use 12 + 9 for RHD

 

[DesertPenguin]

Sabres fans know that. But that doesn’t mean you get to rip them off on deals.

I want Byram don't get me wrong, but I think you're over valueing him if 11, 12 and Rust for Byram and 9 is considered a ripoff. He's a 2nd line LD with warts on an expiring contract I'm willing to take a chance on. He's not Kale Makar.