Confirmed with Link: Saad Signed

[Jackets16]

This is a lot to pay a 22 year old, but we got him through age 28 and it will surely be a value contract! This is less than what the Sabres just signed O'Reilly for. (The much older, less good O'Reilly). I'm thrilled.



I have no idea if he'll score 30, but you might be disappointed. Saad hasn't established himself as a big goal scorer. Adding a couple extra minutes of PP time doesn't guarantee anything. I'll guess 27G 33A if he gets the best minutes possible.

23 goals for a 22 year old is pretty darn good.

 

[blahblah]

Saad has scored 37 even strength goals over the past 2 seasons. That's more than Foligno. I think he'll be plenty enough a big goal scorer

Saad's production is a little low for his ice time, including over 2 minutes of PP time per game. Very happy to have him, but he's got some work to do.

 

[niflheim]

23 goals for a 22 year old is pretty darn good.

Our Cam Atkinson has same G numbers ( and cap hit 3 mln), but he is a little bit older and havent SC rings (probably every SC ring = +1.5 mln)

this is a great day in the history of CBJ hockey & probably one of the first times in our history

I cant decide how optimistic I must be with our unresolved D problem.

 

[major major]

Saad's production is a little low for his ice time, including over 2 minutes of PP time per game. Very happy to have him, but he's got some work to do.

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers. 2.22 P/60 is right up there with Joey and Foligno. Saad's scoring rate was 40th in the entire league.

And way behind Dano.

 

[blahblah]

I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers. 2.22 P/60 is right up there with Joey and Foligno. Saad's scoring rate was 40th in the entire league.

And way behind Dano.

Ryan Johansen scored a point every 22 minutes, Foligno every 20. Saad, every 27 minutes and that is consistent through his career. He was not nearly as productive with his ice time as the players you listed. He wasn't compared Toews or Kane either. Saad's production was consistent with a second line winger. Had Saad scored another 10 or so PP points he would be right up there.

He has work to do.

 

[major major]

Ryan Johansen scored a point every 22 minutes, Foligno every 20. Saad, every 27 minutes and that is consistent through his career. He was not nearly as productive with his ice time as the players you listed. He wasn't compared Toews or Kane either. Saad's production was consistent with a second line winger. Had Saad scored another 10 or so PP points he would be right up there.

He has work to do.

Provide a link please.

Are you using PROD? Does it disaggregate 5 on 5 from powerplay time? That might be the issue.

 

[stevo61]

Hawks had the 20th ranked PP, you'd have to think that will be a boost. Was certainly a boost for Foligno who had a career high of 47 points and now just finished a 73 point season and is our captain

 

[Jackets16]

Our Cam Atkinson has same G numbers ( and cap hit 3 mln), but he is a little bit older and havent SC rings (probably every SC ring = +1.5 mln)

And isn't near the hockey player Saad is. They aren't even close to comparable.

 

[blahblah]

Provide a link please.

Are you using PROD? Does it disaggregate 5 on 5 from powerplay time? That might be the issue.

Let's break this down for you.

Foligno played 1:30 more a game, over 80 games that's about 120 minutes. Subtract 60 minutes as Foligno played 3 less games.

That's about 60 minutes extra ice time, in which Foligno scored an additional 21 points. That's about a point every 3 minutes in the additional ice time that Foligno had. Simple math. If they were close, the point spread would have been around 3 or 4 points, not 21. It wasn't even close.

No, it didn't miss PP time. If you must know, look at the stats on ESPN.

Saad was not nearly as productive with his ice time.

 

[Jackets16]

Let's break this down for you.

Foligno played 1:30 more a game, over 80 games that's about 120 minutes. Subtract 60 minutes as Foligno played 3 less games.

That's about 60 minutes extra ice time, in which Foligno scored an additional 21 points. That's about a point every 3 minutes in the additional ice time that Foligno had. Simple math. If they were close, the point spread would have been around 3 or 4 points, not 21. It wasn't even close.

No, it didn't miss PP time. If you must know, look at the stats on ESPN.

Saad was not nearly as productive with his ice time.

Wouldn't it be better to compare him to players on Chicago's team? The teams play differently, score differently, etc.... How many points did they score per minute 5 on 5? Columbus had a MUCH better PP, so that alone is gong to skew the numbers in favor of Columbus' players.

 

[blahblah]

Wouldn't it be better to compare him to players on Chicago's team? The teams play differently, score differently, etc.... How many points did they score per minute 5 on 5? Columbus had a MUCH better PP, so that alone is gong to skew the numbers in favor of Columbus' players.

The numbers are the numbers. Kane, Toews and Hossa were top line or borderline top line production. Saad was not. To give you an idea, Dano did more with his ice time and no PP time.

This isn't an attack against Saad, this is simply stating facts. His production is not top line yet. Yes, that is directly related to his lack of success on the PP. Seeing as it doesn't matter to me if he gets any PP time, I'm not all that worried about it. He'll either do something with the PP time he's given or he won't and he'll be a very productive 5 on 5 player. He just won't play 20 minutes a night that way.

Until he does it, trying to find reasons is just speculation.

 

[Jackets16]

5 on 5

Johansen = 43 points in 1,254.6 minutes or a point every 29.3 minutes
Saad = 42 points in 1,148 minutes or a point every 27.01 minutes

 

[Jackets16]

The numbers are the numbers. Kane, Toews and Hossa were top line or borderline top line production. Saad was not. To give you an idea, Dano did more with his ice time and no PP time.

This isn't an attack against Saad, this is simply stating facts. His production is not top line yet. Yes, that is directly related to his lack of success on the PP. Seeing as it doesn't matter to me if he gets any PP time, I'm not all that worried about it. He'll either do something with the PP time he's given or he won't and he'll be a very productive 5 on 5 player. He just won't play 20 minutes a night that way.

So, you are saying you can compare players production on two different teams when those two teams play completely differently? That is not true at all. Teams play different styles, different paces, etc.... You absolutely can not compare production per minute from one team to the next. I just posted the 5 on 5 between Saad and Johansen. That alone shows the difference a team with a good PP and a team with a bad one makes.

 

[blahblah]

5 on 5

Johansen = 43 points in 1,254.6 minutes or a point every 29.3 minutes
Saad = 42 points in 1,148 minutes or a point every 27.01 minutes

So, you are saying you can compare players production on two different teams when those two teams play completely differently? That is not true at all. Teams play different styles, different paces, etc.... You absolutely can not compare production per minute from one team to the next. I just posted the 5 on 5 between Saad and Johansen. That alone shows the difference a team with a good PP and a team with a bad one makes.

Why are we in defensive mode? I already said he's good 5 on 5 and that I don't care if he scores a single point on the PP the entire time I'm here.

Just so you know the difference in the PP percentages was 4% between the teams and a total of 7 goals difference over an entire season. Not exactly a huge disparity.

If there was an issue with the PP unit Saad was on, he obviously wasn't part of the solution.

Can we go back to enjoying getting him signed and being on the team? I think he adds a lot of value, even if he has work to do before he's earned the entire amount.

 

[major major]

Let's break this down for you.

Foligno played 1:30 more a game, over 80 games that's about 120 minutes. Subtract 60 minutes as Foligno played 3 less games.

That's about 60 minutes extra ice time, in which Foligno scored an additional 21 points. That's about a point every 3 minutes in the additional ice time that Foligno had. Simple math. If they were close, the point spread would have been around 3 or 4 points, not 21. It wasn't even close.

No, it didn't miss PP time. If you must know, look at the stats on ESPN.

Saad was not nearly as productive with his ice time.

My objection is that you are using powerplay productivity as an indicator of whether someone is "first line" or "second line".

I think lumping in powerplay scoring rates in with 5 on 5 rates is a recipe for mistaken inference. That's the sort of thing that would have led you to believe that R.J. Umberger was a decent hockey player, when he was abysmal at evens last year, or that Foligno was a third liner, when he was just not on the powerplay. Powerplay scoring tends to be more ephemeral so it's not a good indicator. But it also doesn't tell you what line someone should play on at evens. At evens, Saad is a top line player, no doubt about it. His scoring rate is 40th in the league.

 

[blahblah]

My objection is that you are using powerplay productivity as an indicator of whether someone is "first line" or "second line".

The vast majority of top line players get the premium PP time, Saad got over 2 minutes of it a game. He didn't perform.

Your objection is noted and isn't valid.

Production is based on... production.... He did it 5 on 5, he didn't on the PP. His overall production is that of a second line player, therefore he isn't producing offensively at the contract he was given.

Done with the debate.

Have a great 4th.

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

over/under on when we see the first "Kneel before Saad" avatar?

 

[MAHJ71]

over/under on when we see the first "Kneel before Saad" avatar?

Now that you mention it....

 

[Light the Lamp]

Forget about trying to compare production of Saad and his new line mates. Saad's speed brings a new dynamic. Last Summer, CBJ brass talked about speed (This year it's health). We have plenty of grit and now Joey and Saad are a top skill set that is not a defensive liability.

 

[Xoggz22]

His production is going to help but his 2-way game is going to help the overall game. That's what makes me high on him. He plays the PK and plays in the top 6. He could see more PP time but produces at even strength... Excited to see how this goes