Proposal: Ryan Strome + Geo both retained to Leafs

[I am Canadian]

Ah, at least bernmeister is no longer proposing that Nylander for Georgiev + trades anymore. Or DeAngelo for Nylander. Miss those days.
Anyways, how does adding Georgiev make any sense after signing Mrazek?

 

[Recipe Unlimited]

Makes no sense for the leafs.

1) The leafs should not be moving high picks unless they're receiving a player that fills a pressing need for more than a season.
2) Backup goalie is absolutely not a need for the leafs. I'd say the leafs have an above average backup (mrazek) and am above average 3rd stringer (hutchinson)
3) The Leafs already have Matthews and Tavares. Not sure why they should be trying to get another top 6 C when their winger depth is much worse.

 

[n8]

Ah, at least bernmeister is no longer proposing that Nylander for Georgiev + trades anymore. Or DeAngelo for Nylander. Miss those days.
Anyways, how does adding Georgiev make any sense after signing Mrazek?

shhhh, you're gonna get Kravtsov for Nylander threads before you know it.
I expect Strome to be a self rental. I doubt they can extend him, get good AAV/term, AND secure a contract without a NTC or with at least a limited NTC. As the OP pointed out, the Kakko and Laf post-ELCs could get pricey and Fox is getting a 8x 9.5M contract.
At the TDL, if Strome is playing as he did in the previous seasons and goes almost PPG, he should get "the classic package:" a 1st + decent prospect a la Kevin Hayes and many many other TDL acquisitions that aren't Tomas Tatar.
Georgiev's value... he's still a viable backup. Not a starter. He sometimes pulls out ridiculous games. He's very good just not consistent. He's probably worth a 4th or 3rd. If he somehow can pump his numbers this season, he could increase that a round or two.

 

[bernmeister]

Agreed - Who also happens to have excellent chemistry with the teams offensive star. It’s never happening. The Rangers aren’t playing the roll of TML farm team to have a perpetual rebuild.

not a perp rebuild to make hard but also real and unavoidable choice to retain young stars who are staying by creating cap space

To Ottawa: Strome and Georgiev

To NYR: ???

Make us a good offer.

Leafs aren't giving up a first.
NYR won't retain on both and take a contract down the middle for next year.
I think fans need to accept that Strome is the type of player we could end up losing for nothing. And that is ok. You can't get a good asset for every UFA, and you don't need to trade every UFA.

If Tavares + Strome ages were flipped, I get your point. If Strome extends at nice price for 4, max 5 yrs, his term would end w/Leafs at early 30s [like 31-32 yrs old] which is where Tavares almost is now. JT at 11 per 4 seasons incl this one. Does he finish w/TOR? He has NMC, but does he break down before?

Also Matthews is only 2 seasons after this and can theoretically push for a deal his final year by refusing to extend, in which cases Leafs risk losing him for nothing. AZ will surely not only open the vault for him, but conceivably wink wink offer him possibility to get in on ownership, a la Lemieux.

So given those 2 facts, while Strome at top dollar does not warrant overinvestment, Strome at closer to 5-ish and getting full season from him now is worth a 1st, esp if it is likely to be a late 1st.

Disagree w/2nd point.
Throwing away assets is never smart.
Sometimes it can't be helped, but should be avoided.

This win now bs has to stop.
Just because of other factors including the team is more balanced and is better able to compete does not mean we squander assets which can help:
-- get better in the future
-- help manage cap now/later

I don't see how this makes any sense for the Leafs. Mrazek is expected to miss 6 games total. Kerfoot isn't a cap dump.

I'm not seeing the logic in bringing in Georgiev with Campbell and Mrazek already on the roster

I would restructure so Geo is out, if that's what Leaf fans want. We can peddle him elsewhere.
Howev, let's be clear.
Like literally the other nite TOR had to sign some guy to a PTO b'c they were short in goal. So what I suggested is not without any basis worthy of consideration.

Perhaps Kinkaid as a freebie is a better fit.

Unless the Rangers aren't sniffing a playoff spot by TDL than Strome will be viewed as a TDL acquisition. Trading Strome is the antithesis of why Dolan completely cleaned house aiming for playoffs and more.

No.
Strome is not a be all end all piece.
Rangers were not deep. Now they arguably are closer to that.
Does not mean we squander guys who we HAVE TO move long term due to cap. No self rental bs on win now fallacy.
Build, build, build -> constant improvement elevates into contention

Ah, at least bernmeister is no longer proposing that Nylander for Georgiev + trades anymore. Or DeAngelo for Nylander. Miss those days.
Anyways, how does adding Georgiev make any sense after signing Mrazek?

As to yr ?, pls see above.
As to rest of it, notice how there were extensive number of variations on that theme pretty much all being medium to larger packages and you conveniently do not disclose that Buchnevich was typically a prime piece in them.

I don't mind the swipe, but hey, can we be honest and represent things factually and not out of context?
This is an example of when I said my critics don't hesitate to misrepresent me and I have to correct to highlight what is actually the record

 

[bernmeister]

Makes no sense for the leafs.

1) The leafs should not be moving high picks unless they're receiving a player that fills a pressing need for more than a season.
2) Backup goalie is absolutely not a need for the leafs. I'd say the leafs have an above average backup (mrazek) and am above average 3rd stringer (hutchinson)
3) The Leafs already have Matthews and Tavares. Not sure why they should be trying to get another top 6 C when their winger depth is much worse.

#1 pls note my post on where you guys are at as to pivot.
I think a discounted Strome now, full season production is worth it.

2. Am willing to withdraw Geo and reduce return if most Leaf fans feel that way. Can offer you Kinkaid as a freebie.

3. Pls see earlier post on Tavares + Matthews potential worst case scenarios. Not saying bend team out of shape for that but if Strome is available now for cheap, it should be considered.
Also, Strome could be shifted to W relative to W depth concerns

 

[LeafChief]

not a perp rebuild to make hard but also real and unavoidable choice to retain young stars who are staying by creating cap space



Make us a good offer.




If Tavares + Strome ages were flipped, I get your point. If Strome extends at nice price for 4, max 5 yrs, his term would end w/Leafs at early 30s [like 31-32 yrs old] which is where Tavares almost is now. JT at 11 per 4 seasons incl this one. Does he finish w/TOR? He has NMC, but does he break down before?

Also Matthews is only 2 seasons after this and can theoretically push for a deal his final year by refusing to extend, in which cases Leafs risk losing him for nothing. AZ will surely not only open the vault for him, but conceivably wink wink offer him possibility to get in on ownership, a la Lemieux.

So given those 2 facts, while Strome at top dollar does not warrant overinvestment, Strome at closer to 5-ish and getting full season from him now is worth a 1st, esp if it is likely to be a late 1st.

Disagree w/2nd point.
Throwing away assets is never smart.
Sometimes it can't be helped, but should be avoided.

This win now bs has to stop.
Just because of other factors including the team is more balanced and is better able to compete does not mean we squander assets which can help:
-- get better in the future
-- help manage cap now/later





I would restructure so Geo is out, if that's what Leaf fans want. We can peddle him elsewhere.
Howev, let's be clear.
Like literally the other nite TOR had to sign some guy to a PTO b'c they were short in goal. So what I suggested is not without any basis worthy of consideration.

Perhaps Kinkaid as a freebie is a better fit.



No.
Strome is not a be all end all piece.
Rangers were not deep. Now they arguably are closer to that.
Does not mean we squander guys who we HAVE TO move long term due to cap. No self rental bs on win now fallacy.
Build, build, build -> constant improvement elevates into contention



As to yr ?, pls see above.
As to rest of it, notice how there were extensive number of variations on that theme pretty much all being medium to larger packages and you conveniently do not disclose that Buchnevich was typically a prime piece in them.

I don't mind the swipe, but hey, can we be honest and represent things factually and not out of context?
This is an example of when I said my critics don't hesitate to misrepresent me and I have to correct to highlight what is actually the record

Yes - for one game they needed an emergency goalie. The way the rule works is they had to do it for one game and can now recall Hutchinson as the emergency recall.

The issue is already behind them. Let's be clear.

The Leafs aren't giving up picks (especially not high ones) to swap from Kerfoot to Strome. And I don't dislike Strome.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I'm going to use Bern's Hertl logic to create a counter:

TML are in no position to give future for Strome. They can keep assets and sign Strome UFA.
Since you said hertl was worth Strome and 2 7ths that upgraded if he resigned:
Toronto offers Kerfoot, and 2 7ths for Strome.

 

[bernmeister]

I'm going to use Bern's Hertl logic to create a counter:

TML are in no position to give future for Strome. They can keep assets and sign Strome UFA.
Since you said hertl was worth Strome and 2 7ths that upgraded if he resigned:
Toronto offers Kerfoot, and 2 7ths for Strome.

in your haste to dig at me, you forgot those are 2 7ths that could be 2 1sts depending on player's availability and production.

No reason to anticipate Strome, who does not have same injury profile as Hertl, requires that insurance to the buyer built in.

If it is 1 7th but it upgrades into a 1st for his production, at mutually agreeable terms, fine, I'll take that risk.
Strome would produce esp in Leafs top 6 or even as 3C

 

[WojtekWolski86]

not a perp rebuild to make hard but also real and unavoidable choice to retain young stars who are staying by creating cap space



Make us a good offer.




If Tavares + Strome ages were flipped, I get your point. If Strome extends at nice price for 4, max 5 yrs, his term would end w/Leafs at early 30s [like 31-32 yrs old] which is where Tavares almost is now. JT at 11 per 4 seasons incl this one. Does he finish w/TOR? He has NMC, but does he break down before?

Also Matthews is only 2 seasons after this and can theoretically push for a deal his final year by refusing to extend, in which cases Leafs risk losing him for nothing. AZ will surely not only open the vault for him, but conceivably wink wink offer him possibility to get in on ownership, a la Lemieux.

So given those 2 facts, while Strome at top dollar does not warrant overinvestment, Strome at closer to 5-ish and getting full season from him now is worth a 1st, esp if it is likely to be a late 1st.

Disagree w/2nd point.
Throwing away assets is never smart.
Sometimes it can't be helped, but should be avoided.

This win now bs has to stop.
Just because of other factors including the team is more balanced and is better able to compete does not mean we squander assets which can help:
-- get better in the future
-- help manage cap now/later





I would restructure so Geo is out, if that's what Leaf fans want. We can peddle him elsewhere.
Howev, let's be clear.
Like literally the other nite TOR had to sign some guy to a PTO b'c they were short in goal. So what I suggested is not without any basis worthy of consideration.

Perhaps Kinkaid as a freebie is a better fit.



No.
Strome is not a be all end all piece.
Rangers were not deep. Now they arguably are closer to that.
Does not mean we squander guys who we HAVE TO move long term due to cap. No self rental bs on win now fallacy.
Build, build, build -> constant improvement elevates into contention



As to yr ?, pls see above.
As to rest of it, notice how there were extensive number of variations on that theme pretty much all being medium to larger packages and you conveniently do not disclose that Buchnevich was typically a prime piece in them.

I don't mind the swipe, but hey, can we be honest and represent things factually and not out of context?
This is an example of when I said my critics don't hesitate to misrepresent me and I have to correct to highlight what is actually the record

Self-rental is not BS. Drury isn't going to cut his nose off to spite his face given the clear message by Dolan to do all that is necessary to make the playoffs. Its one thing to include Strome as part of an "immediate" solution, its another to trade him for futures while contending for a playoff spot. The only way that happens (while in playoff contention) is Chytil has a breakout season and Strome plays like the Edmonton version of himself.

 

[AvroArrow]

I don’t see why NYR trade Strome at all and I’m not even a huge fan of his. Georgiev could be had for a replacement backup like Campbell+a pick but Strome has too much chemistry with Panarin to trade

lol stop.

 

[bernmeister]

Self-rental is not BS. Drury isn't going to cut his nose off to spite his face given the clear message by Dolan to do all that is necessary to make the playoffs. Its one thing to include Strome as part of an "immediate" solution, its another to trade him for futures while contending for a playoff spot. The only way that happens (while in playoff contention) is Chytil has a breakout season and Strome plays like the Edmonton version of himself.

respectfully disagree
Zib = 1
Chytil = 2
Krav to be eliminated but still Barron = 3
several candidates = 4

Strome needs to be 1 or 2 or he is not max/optimal resources for this lineup

and again, there is zero ? he has to go for Fox, LaF KK
We can make the playoffs just as easy w/w'o him.
Howev, to take the next step and not merely compete but contend, we can't afford to waste assets