Speculation: Ryan O'Reilly at the draft for Ryan Poeling, 2nd round pick +

[Bazeek]

Sounds like the club is super high on Poehling if true they turned down a ROR trade, who is almost exactly what they needed in a 27 year old top 6 centre, wow. Not just the Habs but the brain trust in Buffalo and Minnesota also high on Poehling if they're making nice offers for him. I wonder who the Wild offered? I would assume some kind of quality NHL roster player was what tempted the Habs. I probably would have made that trade for ROR but I'm not a professional NHL talent manager, so as a Habs fan I'm just going to hope they're all right about whatever that special thing they see in him pans out at the NHL level.

Minnesota was trying to move Scandella for the pick that became Poehling. It seems likely they would have made the same selection.

 

[Cquant]

What is interesting to me is that Poehling seems to be held as a far superior prospect to Thompson. The usual argument is that Poehling really upped his offensive game last season and almost scored a PPG. Thing is, Thompson was almost PPG in his draft and in his draft+1 year, even though they have a bit of a difference in age.
They are very similar prospects, and could eventually have second line upside in their peaks, but I personally see them more as great third liners. That's not a knock, because those are very important assets for a playoff team anyway. The biggest asset in the trade is the 1st round pick though.

Poehling will be good for Montreal on the third line in the near future, right behind Domi, Danault and Kotkaniemi.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Anyways, maybe I'm overrating Poeling, but I feel that Ryan Poeling + Montreal 2nd round pick would have been superior (without any +) to the St-Louis package (I see Berglund and Sobotka, maybe wrongly so, mainly as cap dumps).

Is this a case where the seller was too greedy and got burned?

We got way more than Poehling and 2nd.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Suspect that Buffalo got more from St. Louis than the ask from Montreal. I'm assuming that the + was less than a 2nd in value, otherwise he'd have lead with that, not the 2nd. Poehling is a good prospect, and would be welcome in any system.

 

[Peat]

Anyways, maybe I'm overrating Poeling, but I feel that Ryan Poeling + Montreal 2nd round pick would have been superior (without any +) to the St-Louis package (I see Berglund and Sobotka, maybe wrongly so, mainly as cap dumps).

Is this a case where the seller was too greedy and got burned?

They're solid middle sixers who were and are a significant way ahead of their competition for spots at Buffalo. They may not be super valuable, but getting them's a definite plus for Buffalo.

 

[belair]

It would've been worth it.

Weber, Price and Petry are in their 30s. Those picks and prospects won't be ready for Montreal until all three are over the hill--with two still under contract.

 

[Snippit]

Ugh why was Buffalo getting such bad offers for ROR

I would have said f*** no to both...but here we are.

 

[pheasant]

Ugh why was Buffalo getting such bad offers for ROR

I would have said **** no to both...but here we are.

I agree completely. MTL was silly for turning this down. ROR without giving up a 1st? Go for it. Poeling projects to be a 2nd liner. It isn't that high a price to pay.

Buffalo, to their credit, did make up for the poor ROR return by getting Skinner for half what he's worth.

 

[Zip15]

It all depends on what the other + was. My guess is that it was a roster player. Shaw? Hudon? DLR? Lehkonen?

That being said, Poehling would have been a hard price to pay for a re-tooling team. He’s underrated here and could open a lot of eyes at the WJC and end of the regular season when he’s going to join the team

I think Botts was trying to get both prospects/futures (e.g., Thompson and draft picks) and depth players (Berglund and Sobotka) - though one could argue that if they traded with Montreal at the draft, they could have gone harder after depth players on July 1. I think it would've been something like Poehling + 2nd + Byron (pretty much a better, younger Sobotka) and maybe Lehkonen.

 

[The Great Weal]

I agree completely. MTL was silly for turning this down. ROR without giving up a 1st? Go for it. Poeling projects to be a 2nd liner. It isn't that high a price to pay.

Buffalo, to their credit, did make up for the poor ROR return by getting Skinner for half what he's worth.

Offer seems like a good deal for the Habs, but they need to rebuild. All ROR does right now is make us a bubble team and we stay stuck in mediocrity.

 

[pheasant]

Offer seems like a good deal for the Habs, but they need to rebuild. All ROR does right now is make us a bubble team and we stay stuck in mediocrity.

But that rebuild still isn't really happening.

With Price and Weber on the team, they're going to be unable to truly tear things down or finish near the bottom. And the moves from ownership and management seem to be keeping them in "mediocrity" anyway. So why not try to win?

 

[Frenzy31]

Interesting piece in the Athletic this morning where, in an interview with M. Bergevin done at the beginning of the season, Montreal GM says that Botteril was asking for Ryan Poeling, 2nd round pick, "+" for Ryan O'Reilly.



From Poehling to Price: why Marc Bergevin's plan must...

Canadiens felt the price was too high and backed off.

Of course, we do not know what the + was, but I'm wondering which package would have been more attractive in your opinion, knowing that finally the Blues gave up Tage Thompson, a 2019 lottery protected 1st rounder, a 2021 2nd rounder, Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka.

Obviously, Montreal 2nd rounder has quite a bit more value given where Blues/Canadien projects to end up in the standings, but I don't know enough about Tage Thompson to be definitive... I would tend to think Poeling has more value. Am I wrong?

I think TT and Poeling are on the same tier as far as prospects go. But Poeling may have more value to Montreal then TT did to the Blues because the Blues have better prospect depth. Giving up TT but having Kyrou, Thomas, Kostin, and Bokk all RH shots - makes the loss easier.... Vs. Montreal where they really have two solid/high end prospects center/forward prospects and giving one up would be difficult. It creates a bigger hole in their prospect depth.

I would also add that Sobi and Berglund were not cap dumps per say. They were added to make the cap workable, but neither is overpaid (maybe 250K, but we are not talking about 1 million here). They had some value and provide some depth to a team that needed it. So there is value there and it makes you wonder what Montreal would have added to this.

To me, for those reasons the Blues package was better and I think it will work out for Buffalo in the long run.

 

[The Great Weal]

But that rebuild still isn't really happening.

With Price and Weber on the team, they're going to be unable to truly tear things down or finish near the bottom. And the moves from ownership and management seem to be keeping them in "mediocrity" anyway. So why not try to win?

I disagree. They were literally at the bottom of the league last year. I also don't see them sucking for too long(1-2 years). What moves from ownership? The Pacioretty trade made them younger. The Galchenyuk trade made them younger. Avoiding to sign any big UFAs...etc

 

[Hockey Stick]

That goes to show how bad and how unprofessional of a gm bergavin is, I don't know many others that would tell the details of a trade offer to the media

 

[pheasant]

I disagree. They were literally at the bottom of the league last year. I also don't see them sucking for too long(1-2 years). What moves from ownership? The Pacioretty trade made them younger. The Galchenyuk trade made them younger. Avoiding to sign any big UFAs...etc

Galchenyuk for Domi was getting younger, sure. But it wasn't really a "rebuilding" style move. Sticking with your former 30 goal scorer, and playing him at C through growing pains would have been.

Other than the Patches trade* nothing from Montreal looks like a rebuild to me. A rebuild requires high turnover. Just being a young squad isn't enough.

* did a bit more research, and forgot the Armia deal. That was pretty slick, and was a "rebuild" type move. I'll budge a bit there. But do you really see a rebuild while Price and Weber on the team?

 

[Mickey Marner]

If his name were L'Reilly, Bergevin would've added a 2019 1st.

 

[The Great Weal]

Galchenyuk for Domi was getting younger, sure. But it wasn't really a "rebuilding" style move. Sticking with your former 30 goal scorer, and playing him at C through growing pains would have been.

Other than the Patches trade* nothing from Montreal looks like a rebuild to me. A rebuild requires high turnover. Just being a young squad isn't enough.

* did a bit more research, and forgot the Armia deal. That was pretty slick, and was a "rebuild" type move. I'll budge a bit there. But do you really see a rebuild while Price and Weber on the team?

Domi brings a completely different element than Galchenyuk. Speed and heart. Of course it's way too early to say, but Domi looks like a better fit. Like I said, I don't think they would rebuild for like 5+ years. I still see Price being elite in 1-2 years and even though Webers status is uncertain, it wouldn't be the first time a player remains elite at an older age(Markov and Chara come to mind).

 

[belair]

Domi brings a completely different element than Galchenyuk. Speed and heart. Of course it's way too early to say, but Domi looks like a better fit. Like I said, I don't think they would rebuild for like 5+ years. I still see Price being elite in 1-2 years and even though Webers status is uncertain, it wouldn't be the first time a player remains elite at an older age(Markov and Chara come to mind).

Barring some miracle, I can't see a 'rebuilt' Montreal team being competitive in their current form and facing the likely divisional opponents they'll have 1-2 years from now. They'll be a bubble team just like they would have been had they made this trade for O'Reilly and addressed their defense in a more serious manner this summer.

I just don't understand your management's decision to do a complete 180 so soon after committing to Carey Price and Shea Weber. It's possible to both 'rebuild' and be competitive simultaneously. Adding one of the league's top two way centers signed for five more seasons in the prime of his career would have gone a long way to helping both of those causes.

 

[tony d]

Yeah, that Montreal package isn't impressive at all. No wonder it was turned down.

 

[Price4Prez]

That goes to show how bad and how unprofessional of a gm bergavin is, I don't know many others that would tell the details of a trade offer to the media

Damned if you do,damned if you dont. Fans cried for transparency. MB sheds light on trade rumors - something we have been clamouring for years,and now that he does- people complain how bad he is.

Maybe fans who think like this are the problem.

 

[Djp]

it was a 1st, 2nd, Thompson+ cap hits in Berland and Sobotka

I think Thompson similar to Poehling

Since Montreal likely refused to give up a high draft pick it would have been their 2nd next year+ another strong prospect in M0ontrals top 4 players 23 and under.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Yeah, that Montreal package isn't impressive at all. No wonder it was turned down.

Your post would’ve been accurate if it wasn’t that MB refused the deal, not the other way around

 

[Thorton02]

While Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka are cap dumps in many people's eyes, they are quality depth on the Sabres roster. Add the 1st, 2nd round picks and Thompson and the St Louis deal is better for Buffalo now and in the future than what Montreal was offered.

 

[Baksfamous112]

While Patrik Berglund and Vladimir Sobotka are cap dumps in many people's eyes, they are quality depth on the Sabres roster. Add the 1st, 2nd round picks and Thompson and the St Louis deal is better for Buffalo now and in the future than what Montreal was offered.

That’s the thing. We don’t know what else to Poehling & a 2nd was asked by Bott. Roster player, I guess. If it’s a young guy like Lehkonen or Hudon then I can understand why MB turned it down.

 

[jfhabs]

I'd take Thompson+20ish over Poeling+35ish

Yes, but Berglund at 3.85M for 4 more years and Sobtoka at 3.5M for 2 more years...