Value of: Ryan Murphy RHD, Carolina

[vipernsx]

Slavin, Faulk, Pesce, Hanifin were better this past season. They deserve to be in the lineup far before Staal. That's top-4 right there. Hainsey is meh but used as a bottom pair defensive dman his numbers should look similar or even slightly better than Staal. And his contract situation is far better. For the last spot they have Tennyson, prospects coming up like Fleury, or Murphy can play as a 6/7.

No need for Staal and his awful contract.

So one of the best blue liners on one of the top 10 teams in the league, with one of the top defenses in the league, struggles to crack the lineup on a team that was one shot away from a lottery pick. We view things very differently.

I think Staal will be better than he was this past season and is better than a lot of people on HF want to believe, but he doesn't really fit well with the Canes system so there are multiple problems with your proposal:

1) The Canes system requires mobile defenseman that can skate well. Even Hainsey, who is probably the worst skater of the bunch still skates very well. This is not a strong suit of Staal's. Not saying he's a bad skater, but he's always been known as more of a stay at home, shut down guy and he'd be the worst skater of the bunch compared to Carolina.
2) The Canes system also requires guys that can move the puck up the ice quickly via passing and/or skating it. Marc's not a bad passer, but again not his strong suit. He also isn't a great skater with the puck.
3) Marc's contract is, well, pretty bad (although the real money gets less over time), especially with the NMC/NTC. The length is also a problem for Carolina with guys like Fleury, Bean and McKeown all waiting in the wings of the next 1-3 years.
4) The Canes just signed Stalberg, so there's no way they are trading him back to the team that just let him go.

Given all that, your proposal doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Carolina.

The knock on Staal's skating is over stated. The Rangers were ousted earlier than expected in the playoffs and the media ran with it. "The Pens forwards blazed around the ice and "exposed" the Rangers slow defense." The truth is the Pens forwards won the Stanley cup and made San Jose and Tampa look slow.

Staal has always been an elite defensive blueliner. Don't fall into the trap of defensive = slow and offensive = skates well. Staal has never been a poor skater. He thinks well, moves well, and that can't be said about many guys at 6'4". Since the eye injury he doesn't skate the puck up the ice as much and that's about it. Maybe this is more due to AVs system of pass quick move quick, because no Ranger blueliner skates the puck up the ice anymore. They tried to break Boyle of the habit.

As far as his contract, at 29 and 5 years left, it's not that bad. You've got to pay for top4 blueliners, not many make it to UFA, certainly not below the age of 30. Demers is the only legit top4 blueliner on the right side of 30 to hit the UFA market. In a year where teams are being stingy, he got 5 x 4.5m. NMC/NTC are now the norm for players once they hit UFA status. When everyone can spend the same money, it's the other perks that can sway a player. Heck, Cam ward got one and many on this board were calling him waiver trash not long ago.

Rangers were interested in Stalberg though have RFA contracts to work out and he didn't want to wait. Both sides were interested in him sticking around. I think he'll work well with the Canes.

The Staal era may be coming to a close in Carolina as they move on, though the value for Marc Staal is currently well understated on this board.

The OP asked for the value of Murphy and I gave mine.

 

[Roboturner913]

So one of the best blue liners on one of the top 10 teams in the league, with one of the top defenses in the league, struggles to crack the lineup on a team that was one shot away from a lottery pick. We view things very differently.

A. If Staal is so great, how come every Rangers fan on this board wants to dump him?

B. If Carolina were to bring a Staal in, where do they put him? He's not good enough to play on the first pair over Slavin. Put him on the second pair and you're just stifling Hanifin's development. Put him on the third pair and he's a waste of $5 million on a 5/6 d-man, which is the exact same reason they just bought out a cheaper guy in Wisniewski.

C. If you want to bash Carolina as an "almost-lottery team" (which is 100% misleading) go ahead, whatever, but at least look at what they have and understand, they don't need any more defensemen. You don't go into Katz's and try to sell them the pastrami your mom made, they already have tons of it and turning out more every minute, and odds are, it's a sight better than what your mom makes anyhow.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

So one of the best blue liners on one of the top 10 teams in the league, with one of the top defenses in the league, struggles to crack the lineup on a team that was one shot away from a lottery pick. We view things very differently.

a) - staal is a cyclops

b) - yes he would struggle to crack this defense, did you even bother to check stats on how good our shot suppression//defense as a whole last year were

c) - while he is kinda effective, he would be a 4//5 tweener on this team, which does not justify his salary

d) - marc staal is a cyclops

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

So one of the best blue liners on one of the top 10 teams in the league, with one of the top defenses in the league, struggles to crack the lineup on a team that was one shot away from a lottery pick. We view things very differently.

By what metric were the Rangers "one of the top defenses in the league"?

SA/GP: CAR 5th best in NHL, NYR 12th best in NHL
GA/GP: NYR 16th best in NHL, CAR 18th best in NHL (due to horrendous goaltending for the 1st 2 months)
PK%: CAR 6th best in NHL, NYR 26th best in NHL
CA60: CAR 10th best in NHL, NYR 26th best in NHL
CF60: CAR 17th best in NHL, NYR 23rd best in NHL

Goals from D: NYR 39; CAR: 38
Assists from D: NYR 128, CAR: 102

So other than having better goaltending and more assists, how exactly was the NYR's a better defensive team than Carolina?

The knock on Staal's skating is over stated. The Rangers were ousted earlier than expected in the playoffs and the media ran with it. "The Pens forwards blazed around the ice and "exposed" the Rangers slow defense."

It has nothing to do with the Playoffs. I've watched Marc Staal for many, many years, and as I said, he's not a "bad" skater, but he's still not close to what the Canes have, and their system requires that.

As far as his contract, at 29 and 5 years left, it's not that bad. You've got to pay for top4 blueliners, not many make it to UFA, certainly not below the age of 30.

No, the Canes don't have to pay for him. They already have Hanifin, Slavin, and Hainsey as LHD at the NHL level. Fleury and Carrick at the AHL level and Bean just drafted. That's what you fail to recognize. EVEN if one accepts that Staal is better than all of those guys today (which is debatable in the Canes system), the contract still is BAD for Carolina because it's too long with all the young talent they have. Your trying to sell (or rather dump) something to the Canes they don't need. I grew up in the north, but now live in NC. Even if you try selling me a $100 parka for $50, it's not a good deal. Same principle applies here.

Demers is the only legit top4 blueliner on the right side of 30 to hit the UFA market. In a year where teams are being stingy, he got 5 x 4.5m. NMC/NTC are now the norm for players once they hit UFA status. When everyone can spend the same money, it's the other perks that can sway a player.

Again, you are completely ignoring needs. No interest in Staal.

Rangers were interested in Stalberg though have RFA contracts to work out and he didn't want to wait. Both sides were interested in him sticking around. I think he'll work well with the Canes.

Point being the Canes signed him and he wanted to sign with Canes. No way they now turn around and trade him, especially for a guy they don't need.

The Staal era may be coming to a close in Carolina as they move on, though the value for Marc Staal is currently well understated on this board.

Agree that Marc's value is understated, but you have to recognize that it's team dependent. Marc has much less value to a team like Carolina than he would to a team that desperately needs a LHD.

The OP asked for the value of Murphy and I gave mine.

Yep, you did. I'm just telling you that what you proposed makes no sense for Carolina.

 

[Joe McGrath]

I think my favorite posts on these boards are when Boom Boom addresses every line in a post separately and explains why he is right and you are wrong. And he's usually right, unless he's disagreeing with me.

 

[NotOpie]

I am right and your are wrong and you know nothing about hockey.

One of the all time great Carolina Hurricanes' fan memes.

 

[sheriff bart]

Anybody suggesting a trade with MStaal to Carolina needs to know that Jim Rutherford is now in Pittsburgh.