Value of: Ryan Graves in a D-for-D swap

[Djp]

Graves just isn’t very good, NJ gave up on him 6 months ago and Colorado gave up on him two years before that. This is a pattern now.

He can’t defend and ruins offense with his horrendous shot selection. Is nowhere near as physical as his size suggests. He’s a PMD trapped in the body of a stay-at-home D.

No contender is going to add a guy with 4 years of term left. Maybe a young, soft team might be willing to dangle a similarly struggling forward (Buffalo/Ottawa) for a hockey trade?

Buffalo isn’t one of them.

at LD they have
Dahlin
Power
Samuelsson
Johnson
Dahlin plays on right side

thry we’re all 23 and younger at start of the season

 

[stempniaksen]

The long-term contract seems like such a killer. At face value the Senators would probably move Kubalik+Brannstrom for Graves+Asset but both of those guys are up in the off-season.

It would seem counter to the (maybe too) patient approach Andlauer and Staois have had so far.

Then you add in the Senators already have over $20 million invested in LHD next year and over $25 million invested in the top-four and it becomes kind of moot.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

You’ve just described Graves though. That doesn’t sound like he’s taking time to get used to anything. Sounds like he’s completely himself.

Agree 100%. That's who Ryan Graves is. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

 

[Detroit Knights]

honestly, we need a big defenseman that plays well defensively and doesn't need to worry about offense. If Graves sounds like that and can be dependable in a lower roll, then I wouldn't mind grabbing him. If you need a D back:

maatta, holl, petry are available, don't know if we need to add or not so let me know

if you need a F back then idk but we need defense a lot more than offense. Not to mention a goalie.

edit: nevermind, forgot he had a long-term contract in place, thought it was closer to a 1 or 2 years or something. got confused. carry on.

 

[tmg]

i am totally fine with graves play in pittsburgh and never understood some devils fans wanted to keep him. even over severson.

he is chaos giraffe light. he either doesn't know his limitations or simply makes bad decisions. his gambles can lead to a few highlights. but mostly they turn against his team.

Yeah but if he was playing in NJ right now, Brendan Smith *wouldn’t be*.

Nah, who am I kidding. They’d both be here and Nemec would be rotting in the AHL.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Super evident in the playoffs, explains why Colorado gave up on him. I remember the OT goal Stone scored on them in the playoffs to shift that entire series came off Graves getting blocked twice and then going the other way. Not to mention, the countless f*** ups he had on the PK and 5v5 in the playoffs for us in Jersey last year.



He's decent as a roster spot if you need somewhat capable dman to go from bad to decent. If you're trying to win a Cup, he's a big no

The Avs also signed Graves to his extension the same day they acquired Toews. And Girard's 7 year extension kicked in that same year, and they had a rookie Byram still coming. His play in the playoffs made the easy decision to move Graves that much easier.

 

[Calad]

Never understood why people thought this guy was good.

He was stapled to Makar's side, who carried him hard

 

[AfroThunder396]

NJ didn’t give up on him so much as his personal contract needs did not match the Devils’ timeline. Ideally the Devils would have kept one of Graves or Severson, short term, but they both wanted long term and were able to get it elsewhere, and the devils didn’t so much give up on them, as they simply couldn’t accommodate their term demands.

This team would love a short term Graves right now. They don’t want Graves at that term - him demanding that term is the reason he’s gone.

NJ looked at their roster and thought their team would be better off with a defense made largely of two rookies, a sophomore, and Brendan Smith.

What does that tell you about how Fitzgerald valued him? Graves is better than Kevin Bahl but that’s a very low bar to clear.

 

[biturbo19]

I think he’s just being overused trying to play with Letang and Karlsson… I think he can be fine but I think they need a true number 5 defenseman who can rotate in with Graves and Pettersson to try to play the minutes that Letang and Karlsson are doing.

I'm not sure it's strictly "overused" in the sense of, too many minutes for him to handle. It's really not far off what he handled well in Jersey at all. I think it's more a case of...exactly what sort of minutes he's being asked to handle. It's all wrapped up in the whole Karlsson thing...where they're so intent on keeping that guy away from tough matchups, and really only want to use their Top-4D overall...that he ends up shoehorned into a more true "shutdown" role. Which isn't his gig, and never has been.


It's the same as the issue with the "why is the powerplay so bad with all this talent???" The answer is...trying to shoehorn Karlsson in there. He becomes a focal point of the entire team, for better or worse. That has all sorts of spinoff collateral consequences like this.


Also very much a question of how suitable Graves is with a player like Letang, or especially Karlsson. He's never been a true "stay at home" defenceman. You really want him with a more conservative, passive puck-mover like Marino. Because despite being in a huge frame, Graves is a rangy aggressive defenceman. Not necessarily aggressive physically all the time, but consistently aggressive in applying pressure defensively. He's an attacking defenceman. One of those guys who loves to play moving forward.

But that's pretty much the exact same as where Letang is at his best, so it's an awkward fit that forces Letang to play more conservatively. And Karlsson is an even more extreme example who basically defends by playing offense.

 

[biturbo19]

Buffalo isn’t one of them.

at LD they have
Dahlin
Power
Samuelsson
Johnson
Dahlin plays on right side

thry we’re all 23 and younger at start of the season

Yeah. A big issue with moving Graves in a swap like this...is that most teams are a bit like this. They would love Graves if he was a RH shot, but they're already kind of loaded up down the LHD side.

Canucks are like this, though they also already went out and dealt for Zadorov who plays a little like Graves, but with more actual physicality. Which just further extends the situation of LH Depth.

Agree 100%. That's who Ryan Graves is. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

I don't think Graves is a really good candidate for this saying. He's not "soft" and he plays aggressively. Sometimes too aggressively. He just doesn't use his huge frame to absolutely clobber people. But he's very much a reckless, aggressive, puck pressuring, play moving forward "Tarzan" type player overall.

 

[tmg]

NJ looked at their roster and thought their team would be better off with a defense made largely of two rookies, a sophomore, and Brendan Smith.

What does that tell you about how Fitzgerald valued him? Graves is better than Kevin Bahl but that’s a very low bar to clear.

Better off compared to what? They weren’t RFAs, the team didn’t exactly have the choice to force a short contract on them. There was no status quo option where he’d stay another year at a reasonable rate.

Again, these players didn’t want short term contracts. The team didn’t want long term contracts. There was no common ground to be had. The team didn’t have an option to give them short term money because other teams were ready to offer long term money. And the team knew that at big dollars and long term they’d be disasters in a couple years.

That was my point. It doesn’t matter whatsoever how much the team valued them this year because the players valued the security of long term contract and the team valued not being stuck with the long term contract anchor regardless of level of short term desirability.

If Pittsburgh was ready to offer 27 million over 6 years with some trade protection, the question of ‘how much Fitz valued him’ simply needs the answer ‘less than that’. Regardless of the number of rookies, sophomores, and Smiths in the plan.

 

[Zippy316]

NJ looked at their roster and thought their team would be better off with a defense made largely of two rookies, a sophomore, and Brendan Smith.

What does that tell you about how Fitzgerald valued him? Graves is better than Kevin Bahl but that’s a very low bar to clear.

I get Graves has his limitations and flaws, but this lacks a lot of context. Devils were limited by cap and hesitant to give out the long term deal that Graves got on the long term market.

On the whole, it’s probably a smart decision long-term, but you’d be lying if you think the Devils would’ve passed up keeping Graves around for 1-3 years if they could.

 

[66-30-33]

I have no issue with how Graves is playing.

Same here, he’s getting Petry hate. But I’d do him for that Fowler deal.

 

[PAZ]

Oof. didn't realize he got a 6 x 4.5 mil contract along with a M-NTC.

I think he'll eventually find his game and be an overpaid #4-5, but that's a pretty bad contract.

 

[Bishop7979]

Really at this point Sullivan is going to need to recognize graves is killing EK and doesn't jive with letang. They will need to put him on pair three and see if poj and letang work long term while reuniting EK and pettersson who are great together. Then give graves ludvig or ruh.

I'd trade off graves if there was a trade to be made, it's just too early and I don't think anyone would take him.

Reset his game with lighter minutes and hope that he bounces back like martin, gonchar, Shultz, niskanen, Daley, ECT have in the past.

 

[gdsmack267]

In one positive sign Graves was on the third pair in practice yesterday where hes probably best suited

 

[PensandCaps]

He should be a forward. Way too aggressive and tunnel visioned to be a shutdown guy.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

More of a dump than a swap

 

[jjniner]

Krug available!