RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 6

[AlternateSideParking]

I think that there is significant confusion on their part regarding the nature of the claim.

Many people asserted - as did I - that Michkov would be a 100 point player, but that didn't mean that we believed he would achieve such in his first season.

Or they're just making up nonsense that, perhaps, a single person might have suggested and then extrapolating it to a wide swath of hockey fans.

I for one think he has 100-point potential without a doubt. It’s just the way it works for teenagers who scored at Michkov’s rookie rate. But I agree that anyone thinking he’d do it in his rookie season was reaching. My guess is he’ll hit 80 or 90 by 24 or 25. A lot will have to do with the talent surrounding him.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

He was #4 though. it would only be criminal if one of the other 3 was left off.

Clearly debatable, all things considered. Wolf faltered down the stretch and had a significant edge in experience. Celebrini and Hutson were locks. My reasoning for picking Michkov would have been that was he was almost four years younger and it was his first year in North America with no AHL experience but still led all forwards in goals and 5v5 scoring. Flames have been grooming Wolf for some time and he already had 18 NHL games prior to this season.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Clearly debatable, all things considered. Wolf faltered down the stretch and had a significant edge in experience. Celebrini and Hutson were locks. My reasoning for picking Michkov would have been that was he was almost four years younger and it was his first year in North America with no AHL experience but still led all forwards in goals and 5v5 scoring. Flames have been grooming Wolf for some time and he already had 18 NHL games prior to this season.

No one cares about that. That doesn't get factored into Calder voting. If we were take those things into consideration, then you would have to consider that Goalies and Dmen take longer to develop than forwards and Centers take longer to develop than wingers.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

No one cares about that. That doesn't get factored into Calder voting. If we were take those things into consideration, then you would have to consider that Goalies and Dmen take longer to develop than forwards and Centers take longer to develop than wingers.

Wolf already had 18 games of NHL experience

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Wolf already had 18 games of NHL experience

Eligibility: To be eligible for the Calder Memorial Trophy, a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league.

Wolf is eligible for Calder per the requirements.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Eligibility: To be eligible for the Calder Memorial Trophy, a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league.

Wolf is eligible for Calder per the requirements.

Obviously, but it’s a distinct advantage to have. Michkov faced larger constraints and limitations — age, familiarity, experience, established veteran coach and established system. Wolf had been through multiple training camps and had a book on NHL shooters. Huge, huge advantages over the field.

You want to reward Wolf for paying his dues, fine. But it’s why he shouldn’t be a slam dunk over Michkov as was suggested. My guess is the voting gap between them was razor thin.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Obviously, but it’s a distinct advantage to have. Michkov faced larger constraints and limitations — age, familiarity, experience, established veteran coach and established system. Wolf had been through multiple training camps and had a book on NHL shooters. Huge, huge advantages over the field.

You want to reward Wolf for paying his dues, fine. But it’s why he shouldn’t be a slam dunk over Michkov as was suggested. My guess is the voting gap between them was razor thin.

He's over Michkov because:

1. He had a better season than Michkov (and more impact to his team)
2. He is eligible.

If you make a set of rules, you can't just change them because your guy didn't get an invite to the dance.

Rules are rules.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

He's over Michkov because:

1. He had a better season than Michkov (and more impact to his team)
2. He is eligible.

If you make a set of rules, you can't just change them because your guy didn't get an invite to the dance.

Rules are rules.

Yeah screw nuanced discussion, right? Let’s be like GMs and give the Vezina to the guy with the most wins.

Wolf still had a losing record after 2/1 and had a sub-.900 save percentage the last month of the season. Large samples, and all despite entering the season with three AHL years and 18 NHL games already under his belt. This wasn’t a Binnington situation where he was willed a team to the playoffs. Individually if was closer to Blackwood in 2020 or Swayman in 2022, and neither were finalists.

Michkov had warts, but at the end of the day, he was tied with Celebrini as the best forward of the group and had significant advantages at 5v5.

But I don’t mind Wolf being a finalist as much as thinking he was a lock over Michkov. It’s likely going to be a close vote from 3 to 4.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Yeah screw nuanced discussion, right? Let’s be like GMs and give the Vezina to the guy with the most wins.

Wolf still had a losing record after 2/1 and had a sub-.900 save percentage the last month of the season. Large samples, and all despite entering the season with three AHL years and 18 NHL games already under his belt. This wasn’t a Binnington situation where he was willed a team to the playoffs. Individually if was closer to Blackwood in 2020 or Swayman in 2022, and neither were finalists.

Michkov had warts, but at the end of the day, he was tied with Celebrini as the best forward of the group and had significant advantages at 5v5.

But I don’t mind Wolf being a finalist as much as thinking he was a lock over Michkov. It’s likely going to be a close vote from 3 to 4.

It probably was a close vote between 3 and 4. But i would have given it to Wolf as he was a key reason the Flames almost made the playoffs. You can't look at his age etc. because he is eligible.

Michkov had warts. Benched on a number of occasions. Long stretches of no production. Tied with Celebrini but with many more games played.

Notice i didn't make the argument that Celebrini was younger than Michkov or hadn't had the advantage of playing in a men's league for a year before entering the NHL.... Because none of that matters.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

It probably was a close vote between 3 and 4. But i would have given it to Wolf as he was a key reason the Flames almost made the playoffs. You can't look at his age etc. because he is eligible.

Michkov had warts. Benched on a number of occasions. Long stretches of no production. Tied with Celebrini but with many more games played.

Notice i didn't make the argument that Celebrini was younger than Michkov or hadn't had the advantage of playing in a men's league for a year before entering the NHL.... Because none of that matters.

I think Celebrini was the superior player regardless. Same with Hutson. But I disagree that age isn’t a factor in the voting. Makarov is literally why they made the rule in the first place. We just saw it with Bunting when he led rookies in scoring but got a chunk of 5th place votes that probably cost him runner-up. One year difference in age is negligible. My issue is with three or more in situations where the scales need to be tipped. I’ll always side with the younger kid over the guy who’s in his mid-20s and already had a taste of NHL action.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I think Celebrini was the superior player regardless. Same with Hutson. But I disagree that age isn’t a factor in the voting. Makarov is literally why they made the rule in the first place. We just saw it with Bunting when he led rookies in scoring but got a chunk of 5th place votes that probably cost him runner-up. One year difference in age is negligible. My issue is with three or more in situations where the scales need to be tipped. I’ll always side with the younger kid over the guy who’s in his mid-20s and already had a taste of NHL action.

If you are eligible for the Calder, then your age no longer is considered. Performance matters. Wolf had a greater impact than Michkov. He was fantastic and carried the Flames.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

If you are eligible for the Calder, then your age no longer is considered. Performance matters. Wolf had a greater impact than Michkov. He was fantastic and carried the Flames.

Except when it mattered down the stretch.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Except when it mattered down the stretch.

You’re arguing with a bunch of fans that are furious their team didn’t draft him and have been in this thread attacking him for a full season. Why even waste your time? It’s not even debating, it’s blind hate and jealousy.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Flyers' Matvei Michkov Lived up to the Hype in Anticipated Rookie Season - The Hockey Writers Philadelphia Flyers Latest News, Analysis & More

Matvei Michkov's rookie season in the NHL is over. His inaugural campaign with the Flyers should make fans excited for the future.

thehockeywriters.com

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Except when it mattered down the stretch.

If you were to judge a player based on only his worst stretch of hockey, Michkov wouldn’t even be in consideration for the Calder at all based on numerous benchings / horrible play.

Based on the totality of Wolf’s play, he was fantastic and in any other year would win the Calder. He carried the Flames.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

If you were to judge a player based on only his worst stretch of hockey, Michkov wouldn’t even be in consideration for the Calder at all based on numerous benchings / horrible play.

Based on the totality of Wolf’s play, he was fantastic and in any other year would win the Calder. He carried the Flames.

This simply isn’t true and it’s hyperbolic. Wolf was mediocre the entire second half and below average in the final month. These are sufficient sample sizes.

He was a solid rookie but it wasn’t fantastic nor was it uncommon, as we saw with Blackwood, Swayman, etc.

Crawford and Bobrovsky in 2011 were statistically superior to Wolf’s 2025 and both made the playoffs. Neither was a Calder finalist. Who was? Skinner (a winger with 63 points like Michkov), Grabner (a winger with 52 points), and Couture (a center with 56 points).

Once again, the PHWA are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They gave the 2022 Calder to point-producing two-way dman Seider over the finesse forward Zegras, but in 2024 gave the finesse forward Bedard the Calder over the point-producing two-way dman Faber, who was CLEARLY more important to his team. Makes zero sense.

Using 2011 as one example, you certainly have a precedent to question the PHWA’s motives toward pushing Wolf over Michkov.

 

[AlternateSideParking]

You’re arguing with a bunch of fans that are furious their team didn’t draft him and have been in this thread attacking him for a full season. Why even waste your time? It’s not even debating, it’s blind hate and jealousy.

I feel bad for them. It’s basically charity work. Their numbers are shrinking considerably thanks to Michkov himself, so I play along to keep them occupied. But they’re running out of ammo.

You know you lost the argument when you avoid answering questions, can’t provide any statistical evidence, and have to cling to a fourth-place Calder finish as the basis of your argument. It’s borderline delusional.