RW Matvei Michkov (2023, 7th, PHI) Part 5

[kp61c]

Really great post

He had better games and then looked like crap for a number of games and was scratched. Let's not get ahead of themselves.

 

[Michael Farkas]

So please answer this question: what makes Michkov, in your eyes a great player??

I've never passed on this. Same answer as before. I think you're underrating his technical skills, underrating his shot. Big time on both. Is it necessarily the highest velocity shot in the league? Nah, probably not. But that isn't necessary either...

One of the strongest points of his hockey sense (which he often activates with his technical skill) is his anticipation of goalie movement. That's why he takes so many zero/low angle shots over the course of his career. He even incorporates the goalie deception into his principal playmaking - which is shot-passes, categorically speaking. He realizes the amazing value of that, especially for a player that might not necessarily be able to burrow into the crease with regularity.

And for all the talk about how he lacks explosivity, and that's true to whatever degree...the game isn't a race around the ice either. His proprioceptive system is very good. His contact balance is remarkable for a player of this size and skating base. So he stays in the battle, he stays on the puck better than players of his athletic attributes.

 

[Garl]

Michkov prediction:

this season 50-60 points

Career can go 2 ways.

1) If he doesn't improve his top end speed/explosiveness, he will be an all star player scoring around 80-85 pts/ season.

2) if he takes his skating from average to just slightly above average, he will be a perennial MVP contender and win a couple of Hart trrophies.

Hm, agree on 50-60 this season, looks doable if he manages to avoid the doghouse

Agree on 80-85

Disagree on Hart and MVP, that's a bold prediction, maybe will agree with you in the future, but now, I don't see it, too many issues
But, can be a 100 pt player if he fixes some parts of his game.

 

[SaSaShi]

I've never passed on this. Same answer as before. I think you're underrating his technical skills, underrating his shot. Big time on both. Is it necessarily the highest velocity shot in the league? Nah, probably not. But that isn't necessary either...

One of the strongest points of his hockey sense (which he often activates with his technical skill) is his anticipation of goalie movement. That's why he takes so many zero/low angle shots over the course of his career. He even incorporates the goalie deception into his principal playmaking - which is shot-passes, categorically speaking. He realizes the amazing value of that, especially for a player that might not necessarily be able to burrow into the crease with regularity.

And for all the talk about how he lacks explosivity, and that's true to whatever degree...the game isn't a race around the ice either. His proprioceptive system is very good. His contact balance is remarkable for a player of this size and skating base. So he stays in the battle, he stays on the puck better than players of his athletic attributes.

We will agree to disagree.

So as Garl asked just now, what is your Michkov career prediction? Because as they say, it's all about production.

 

[SaSaShi]

Hm, agree on 50-60 this season, looks doable if he manages to avoid the doghouse

Agree on 80-85

Disagree on Hart and MVP, that's a bold prediction, maybe will agree with you in the future, but now, I don't see it, too many issues
But, can be a 100 pt player if he fixes some parts of his game.

All his issues are rooted from one problem:

Lack of space creation on ES. That's it. He can create space but he is doing it all on anticipation and guile.

That's why I boldly predict an MVP level player, if he fixes the one issue he has.

A lot of his bad decisions, bad passes are due to this because he has to over-compensate.

The MVP level skill/intelligence are there already, to me it's clear as day. Can he use all of his gifts is the big question. Right now , he cannot. Again, due to his root problem.

 

[Garl]

When you say cut from SKA and try to pass it off as a talent issue, you lose all credibility. The world knows it's a Rotenberg issue, look at what he has done with Demidov. But you hammer this point constantly as if it was a talent issue. It's disingenous.

It has nothing to do with hockey skills, or physical tools. It's 100 percent Rotenberg. This is why people can't engage with you seriously, because your claims reek of a hidden agenda.

What 19 year old always make the right play?? That comes with experience.

Funny, when Rotenberg became a coach I was very sceptical about this and his treatment of Michkov, however posters who are now blaming Rotenberg for last season at first were talking about how unorthodox methods of Rotenberg will be great for Michkov, and how great it is, that Rotenberg is not afraid to put Michkov at center etc.

Now, the cut was based on hockey skills. Not on talent, I never said it. But Rotenberg wants to win, and he thought he has a better chance with the older players he had, and meanwhile Michkov would be better off in Sochi. And judging by Sochi performance, can you say he was wrong?

What about Demidov? Rotenberg is quite generous with Demidov considering what kind of roster SKA has.

The problem with Rotenberg is not that he doesn't trust the youth or smth. The problem is that he is a bad coach who doesn't know how to improve a player

 

[Michael Farkas]

We will agree to disagree.

So as Garl asked just now, what is your Michkov career prediction? Because as they say, it's all about production.

That's fair enough. I'm not here to sway you or anyone. Just here to chat about the game.

I actually don't agree that it's all about production, I actually think it's mostly about process. Production can be a lovely byproduct of good process. But that's another thing entirely...

Career predictions are always tough because players can be in great situations or poor ones to match their style. But to avoid passing on a direct question...I think he's probably a 35+35 guy more or less. He can push it to 40+ goals. I'm thinking something along the Alexei Kovalev track - Michkov will hit faster, but maybe not have as great staying power later in his 30's. Because Kovalev was an ox man and Michkov isn't. It's all about being adaptable, we'll learn more about that in fairly short order.

 

[SaSaShi]

Funny, when Rotenberg became a coach I was very sceptical about this and his treatment of Michkov, however posters who are now blaming Rotenberg for last season at first were talking about how unorthodox methods of Rotenberg will be great for Michkov, and how great it is, that Rotenberg is not afraid to put Michkov at center etc.

Now, the cut was based on hockey skills. Not on talent, I never said it. But Rotenberg wants to win, and he thought he has a better chance with the older players he had, and meanwhile Michkov would be better off in Sochi. And judging by Sochi performance, can you say he was wrong?

What about Demidov? Rotenberg is quite generous with Demidov considering what kind of roster SKA has.

The problem with Rotenberg is not that he doesn't trust the youth or smth. The problem is that he is a bad coach who doesn't know how to improve a player

Demidov is contractually obligated to stay in SKA. There is no option for loan. You cannot use this point.

Demidov should play 18 mins a night and play powerplay. He is SKA's most talented player today. This is my point, nothing Rotenborg does can be used against Michkov or Demidov. It's a crime what he is doing to Demidov.

That's fair enough. I'm not here to sway you or anyone. Just here to chat about the game.

I actually don't agree that it's all about production, I actually think it's mostly about process. Production can be a lovely byproduct of good process. But that's another thing entirely...

Career predictions are always tough because players can be in great situations or poor ones to match their style. But to avoid passing on a direct question...I think he's probably a 35+35 guy more or less. He can push it to 40+ goals. I'm thinking something along the Alexei Kovalev track - Michkov will hit faster, but maybe not have as great staying power later in his 30's. Because Kovalev was an ox man and Michkov isn't. It's all about being adaptable, we'll learn more about that in fairly short order.

35/35 guy this year or career wise?


In the end it's ALL about production. Not at a small sample size but season after season data points. Crosby's career production correlates to his skill level/process/clutchness, etc.

Same with any other forward.

 

[Michael Farkas]

35/35 guy this year or career wise?

He can do it sooner rather than later. I wouldn't expect this player type to vary too, too greatly. I think he hits for some nice numbers early, folks will think that development is linear and follows a particular timeline for all (it isn't and doesn't) and project a 65+, maybe 70+ point season this year into 110 points in his prime...but I don't think it will go that way, barring some amazing circumstances.

 

[JABEE]

I know there's a lot of lunatics in this thread - and some folks think I'm one of them, and that's fine - to recap: I think he has good hockey sense, but it isn't generational. I don't think he's some slow, small, no talent. I think he has an unreal shot and hands. He's super technically skilled. I take exception to the claims of his playmaking being elite. I like things directed to the net (fake shot passes) and things where he's circling the net and passing to the slot...the rest of his passing game doesn't really move the needle for me that much. So, the comparisons to Crosby (stylistically) or even Giroux don't make sense to me.

I know the game here (on the Prospects board in general, not just about Michkov)...if you single out one play, you get told "to watch a game". If you breakdown a game, you get told "not that game! that was his worst game!" and if you breakdown several games, you get told "those were his worst shifts, and you're a jerk!"

So, with all the internet disclaimers out of the way...

0.0% chance that Crosby or Giroux shoot this puck...this has to be a pass. Generational hockey sense, elite playmaking, all that...if that's really the case, this is a pass every single time.

This sequence, with no speed, turned into almost a jam play at the near side post. I can post a video if necessary.

More internet disclaimers: I don't think he's bad. I don't think he needs to be in the KHL to "learn more", I don't think he should be in the minors, or scratched...or anything but being a top six NHL forward. None of that. I just don't think I see the style and super strengths vs. the "very goods" the same as some folks...

I think he considered who has was passing it to and thought it was better to take the shot. He was still wide open after the save and Poehling looked like he had no clue what was going on when the pass came his way from the other side with an empty net.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

I think he considered who has was passing it to and thought it was better to take the shot. He was still wide open after the save and Poehling looked like he had no clue what was going on when the pass came his way.

I mean the guy made an elite pocket pick strip( he’s done it multiple times ) it was a bang bang play, but I prefer Michkov trying to sneak it in the post than pass to Poehling, in a nut shell we can say the pass was better but that was really bang bang quick lol.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I think he considered who has was passing it to and thought it was better to take the shot. He was still wide open after the save and Poehling looked like he had no clue what was going on when the pass came his way from the other side with an empty net.

You mean when the pass was 3 feet away from where he positioned his stick for a shot?

 

[JABEE]

I mean the guy made an elite pocket pick strip( he’s done it multiple times ) it was a bang bang play, but I prefer Michkov trying to sneak it in the post than pass to Poehling, in a nut shell we can say the pass was better but that was really bang bang quick lol.

Yep. If it's Konecny, I think he passes it, but he was playing on the 3rd line with 4th line caliber players all game on 5v5, so, I think he accurately considered the probability of scoring. He got a high quality chance off short after making an incredible play and then passed it to Poehling again. His reaction to that pass seems to validate the decision he made before.

You mean when the pass was 3 feet away from where he positioned his stick for a shot?

It was a bit to the side, but he didn't appear to think a pass was coming.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

The overall hate and over analyzation of Michkov is so hilarious, we all love your tears, they taste great. Everyone who responds to this don’t worry you’re blocked don’t bother

 

[SaSaShi]

I mean the guy made an elite pocket pick strip( he’s done it multiple times ) it was a bang bang play, but I prefer Michkov trying to sneak it in the post than pass to Poehling, in a nut shell we can say the pass was better but that was really bang bang quick lol.

Im sure Michkov has nightmares about his teammates messing up a lot of his passes , but that was the wrong play 11 times out of 10.

Nice win, but philly is drifting further and further apart from Hagens and Misa

 

[WarriorofTime]

20 pages into Part 5. Celebrini thread is on Page 41 of Part 1. Michkov certainly inspires a lot of uhh.. passion. Might be the most scrutinized U21 player I've seen since Ovechkin back in the day.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Im sure Michkov has nightmares about his teammates messing up a lot of his passes , but that was the wrong play 11 times out of 10.

Nice win, but philly is drifting further and further apart from Hagens and Misa

I’m 100% cool with Schaefer, guys a complete stud, may end up the best talent of the draft, what a f***ing talent. But definitely would prefer Hagens. Flyers need a 1D and a 1C , they’ll likely look to move up irregardless of where they fall unless they’re in the top 3

20 pages into Part 5. Celebrini thread is on Page 41 of Part 1. Michkov certainly inspires a lot of uhh.. passion. Might be the most scrutinized U21 player I've seen since Ovechkin back in the day.

Or a certain fanbase that just can’t get over it that overpopulate the board

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Im sure Michkov has nightmares about his teammates messing up a lot of his passes , but that was the wrong play 11 times out of 10.

Yeah, I mean, there has to be a middle ground here. The guy can be playing well and looking great, and like, still make mistakes.

 

[Garl]

Demidov is contractually obligated to stay in SKA. There is no option for loan. You cannot use this point.

Demidov should play 18 mins a night and play powerplay. He is SKA's most talented player today. This is my point, nothing Rotenborg does can be used against Michkov or Demidov. It's a crime what he is doing to Demidov.

In SKA there is always an option for a loan, just with the new rules, would be a "shadow" loan. But the options are much more limited now, it is true.

Most talented doesnt mean the best. Imagine Bedard or Michkov in Florida or Dallas. Would they get 18 min plus pp there? Would Celebrini or Fantilli get those opportunities?

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Yeah, I mean, there has to be a middle ground here. The guy can be playing well and looking great, and like, still make mistakes.

Sure, he makes tons of mistakes, just a part of the process. Bedard does it, Celebrini does it, the great prospects coming into the NHL as teenagers are gonna f*** up, it’s how they learn from it and improve given the leash to attempt shit is how we see the elite talents hit their ceiling. Celebrini made some wild plays this past game and some seemed silly but you can just see the flashes of brilliance, learning what he can and can’t do.

 

[Kshahdoo]

 

[SaSaShi]

In SKA there is always an option for a loan, just with the new rules, would be a "shadow" loan. But the options are much more limited now, it is true.

Most talented doesnt mean the best. Imagine Bedard or Michkov in Florida or Dallas. Would they get 18 min plus pp there? Would Celebrini or Fantilli get those opportunities?

NHL and KHL you cannot compare because of the quality discrepancy. But to answer your question, yes all Bedard/Michkov/Celebrini would get more ice time including Powerplay in FLA/DAL than what Demidov is getting at SKA. Fantilli not sure because I dont think he would be top 6 forward in those teams like Bedard/Michkov/Celebrini.

Edit: Florida has Evan Rodrigues ( 39 pt player last 2 yrs) in their Powerplay.

Dallas has rookie Stankoven/ Mason Marchment.

Are you saying that Bedard/Michkov/Celebrini would be weaker than these 3 players on their respective powerplays?

Hell by seeing this, Fantilli could take Marchment's spot and most likely have no dropoff, perhaps even a boost.

Demidov should play more and definitely belongs on SKA powerplay. He is the most talented AND their best hockey player imo.

 

[ClarkBolzano]

His passing is better than his "unreal" shot.

He does NOT have an unreal shot. He has a decent shot.
6/10.

Where do you see this unreal shot in the 14 games he has played so far?

He doesn't have good hockey sense, it's an elite one. Already the best on philly.

His problems are:
1) lack of explosiveness/top end speed,
2) still lacks man strength,
3) has stamina issues.

He has the same vision and makes as good as passes as Giroux. Difference was Giroux had a stanley cup roster when he first broke in the league. And Michkov is a better passer in his 19 yr old rookie season than Giroux's 20 yr old rookie season. If you watch the games, you can see this easily.

I asked you a question a month ago why has Michkov broken records in every stage he has played in if he has only average physical tools?

Decent shot
Average top speed
Average explosiveness
Average strength

You responded well because he is damn good at hockey. Well what MAKES him good at hockey? Anticipation, hockey sense, vision.

If he has merely good hockey sense combined with with his underwhelming physical tools (for this type of hyped prospect) and below average size, he will be a 2nd/3rd line player in the NHL.

So please answer this question: what makes Michkov, in your eyes a great player??

I think its only cause He is russian that you make this Kind of comments. Just curious. What's your Analysis about Bedard?

 

[ClarkBolzano]

I think its only cause He is russian that you make this Kind of comments. Just curious. What's your Analysis about Bedard?

Forget my message. I misunderstood completely. Just wolle up

 

[SaSaShi]

I think its only cause He is russian that you make this Kind of comments. Just curious. What's your Analysis about Bedard?

I dont understand, do you think im overly critical or overly optimistic because Michkov is russian??

Bedard: I think he is a better player right now than Michkov, has the potential to be NHL best after Mcdavid slows down. If Michkov can improve his skating just a bit, he would equal or maybe even surpass Bedard, because michkov is the more cerebral player.

Bedard is still too much perimeter player, lacks strength, has elite shot but still trying to score like junior hockey. People are ragging on him right now because he isnt Mcdavid/Crosby, but he will be close to them.

His path to 110 plus points is clearer than Michkov's because his problems are strength/experience, will most likely solve by its own naturally.