Hokinaittii
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- Aug 15, 2015
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Like others have said, behind Hall and Laine but not much. He is mature enough to become good player next year already.
RW Andrei Svechnikov (2018, 2nd, CAR) II
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Do some of you guys watched Svechnikov play, saw his stats for the past 3 years or so? I see some bias in some comments over here. Let's start from Laine. Laine wasn't even in TOP 10 in some rankings prior to WJC 2016, people talked about Pulju much more, and to be honest Laine wasn't that all impressive until his crazy WJC 2016. He raised to number 2 exactly after that and his strong performance right before his draft. Regarding Hall, I agree Svech and Hall are somewhat close but again Hall wasn't even clear number 1 until his draft day, he was neck and neck close with Seguin. And at 17 I think Svech is a bit better player than Hall was at 17. And lol at people who say Svech on Marner, Drouin, Ehlers level pre-draft wise.
Elias Pettersson
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So you havent watched much Laine either.. Without his knee injury, Laine most likely would have been sure top-10 player before WJC.
StatisticsAddict99
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- Feb 24, 2017
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Firstly Laine was ranked No.4 on Mckenzies pre-season list(the closest list the consensus, so that suggestion is in the crapper), Dahlin has only been in mention for 1OA for the past year and some change, Nolan Patrick was a 1OA pick while most rankings had Hischier scratching the First Round, many people thought Jake Wise was gonna be the next Eichel at the start of last season.
If you can’t keep up in your draft year things can and will change through development.
Svechnikovs -1 Draft Year does not make him better than Laine as a prospect when Laines draft year was more impressive and had a bigger gap between between Svech’s -1 DY and Laines -1 DY..
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"Without hand injury, Svechnikov most likely would have been in Top-3 scoring in OHL at 17, and help Bragin's Russia to earn a medal". We can guess and do assumptions all day long.
"Due to strong play with Tappara early in the season and an impressive showing at the 2015 IIHF World U18 Championships where he scored 8 goals in 7 games, Laine's ranking on most draft lists rose from the previous season, when he had been considered a mid-first-round prospect".
StatisticsAddict99
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Yes I will say it again, players rise due to development, Hischier was hardly in the first round all of last season and climbed to #1, Dahlin wasn’t the Generational D Prospect he is today two seasons ago, Eichel wasn’t even in the top 10 two years before prior to his draft... Svechnikov can be the best 16 Year old hockey player all day long but he’s not a better pre-NHL prospect from what Laine was. By that logic all teams should draft from the rankings 2 years prior, just because. Players get drafted off of who they are not what they where. This is absolutely ridiculous that your claiming bias when your obviously a Russian hockey fan yourself and putting up a poor argument behind Svechnikov being a better Prospect than Laine.
Except that Laine's injury affected his skating, which we can clearly judge. Not like scoring etc.. and if we start presuming, i would say that Laine would have been top-3 scorer in OHL.
I doubt Svechnikov is on Laine level. I even doubt he is on Pulju level. He is good but being on Laine level means being WJC MVP and WC MVP. The way Laine played in his draft year is somthing special.
He might not be ok Laines level but that logic is silly.
MacKinnon, Hall, Eichel and Stamkos never won those awards either does that mean they weren’t on Laines level?
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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No, you just are missing the point entirely. Svechnikov has been dominant as a prospect for 2 years. That’s very relevant in talking about a prospect’s pedigree.
Right... except Svechnikov kept up. Was #2 last year and is still #2.
If you are going to point to points, realize Marner and Drouin crush Svechnikovs point total. Hall was more dominant in the OHL at 17. He was the best player in the league not named Tavares and was the best player on the best team in the league. As someone who has seen a bunch of Svechnikov at all 3 levels this year (u-20, u-18 and OHL) he isn’t significantly above either Marner or Drouin, who were both top 4 picks in way deeper drafts. I can see the reasons to prefer Svechnikov, but he isn’t on a superstar tier than those guys. Keep in mind Drouin has the highest draft season PPG in the QMJHL since Crosby, while Marner has one of the highest draft season PPG in the OHL since the Crosby draft, behind only McDavid and Patrick Kane.
You are also pointing to prior rankings, which are of little value the actual day of the draft.
Laine was also top 5 a bunch of places prior to the 2016 WJC. I mean, I’m pretty sure he was 4 on Mckenzies pre-season list behind Matthews, Puljujarvi and Chychrun. If you are going to point to some rankings, I can find some rankings that don’t currently have Svechnikov in the top 4, doesn’t mean I agree with it.
As far as I remember Marner and Drouin had way better linemates, than Svechnikov. I think, GPG shows it pretty well. Svechnikov is a very good playmaker, but it looks like his playmaking is useless on his team.
Fantomas
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Let's not because it's not a good way to look at Svechnikov's production which is goal-heavy.
Fantomas
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Marner played with several other forwards who produced way above PPG - Dvorak, Domi and Rupert. And part of the season McCarron. These were very high scoring lines from which he benefited.
Same with Drouin who played with MacKinnon, Frk, Ashley, Boudreau, Fournier, Ciampini.
Until Sokolov's arrival Svechnikov has had exactly one teammate at PPG - Lucas Chiodo (58 pts in 58 games).
Does anyone seriously think Mitchell Marner puts up 2 PPG on this Barrie Colts team?
Watching him play at u18 5 nations I actually had major concerns about his lack of polish with the puck. Even though he put up points it made me doubt he had the elite level skill and sense to be worth taking in the top 3 or even 5. On the PP for example he was constantly fumbling the puck or moving it too slowly, and this is against his own age group.
Puljujarvi, for example, had a similar issue but actually he was more dominant and in control against his peers.
Puljujarvi, for example, had a similar issue but actually he was more dominant and in control against his peers.
I think, he plays with Sokolov, who's above PPG. But since that Sokolov's trade, Svechnikov is almost 2 PPG player. And his GPG is way higher, than both Marner's and Drouin's.
kp61c
Registered User
his production has spiked since they got luchuk. it must have been hard for him to carry nizhnikov and lipanov on his back at the start of the season.
he's on another level than marner and droin. they are soft and undersized, svechnikov is an exact opposite of them. i don't see the comparison at all.
he's on another level than marner and droin. they are soft and undersized, svechnikov is an exact opposite of them. i don't see the comparison at all.
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Probably not, but they also got Luchuk who was killing it in a bad Windsor team. You have to keep in mind Svechnikov has played over half the season with those 2 guys due to when he was injured and the WJC.
Marner put up unreal numbers and was the best player on that team as a 17 year old and was arguably the best player in the OHL behind McDavid that year. Knights were good, but were also deadline sellers. Marner and Domi also never clicked at 5v5. Rupert was a plug who happened to be on the right line. Marner also played very well in the playoffs when paired with Sherk and Rupert while having to center the line, putting up a higher PPG than he did in the regular season.
I also don’t get why you want to isolate it only to goals to show Svechnikov in the most positive light possible. He’s a great prospect and should go 2nd in this draft, but so were Drouin and Marner who probably also go 2nd in this draft.
Fantomas
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Not putting down Marner here, but when your roster has a bunch of guys producing at a very high PPG that means you have to look at his numbers in context. It doesn't mean he's not a great player, but one can reasonably conclude that in a different situation he would not be producing at quite the same rate.
I didn't say anything about isolating goals. But there is more than one way to look at production as you well know.
Fantomas
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Those guys were great players, but I think what makes Svechnikov stand out is his scoring. Many guys rack up points on junior teams, especially on stacked ones, but scoring at a high level is harder.
Drouin scored at a pretty similar rate.
Also, Svechnikov played most of the season with 2 guys producing at a high rate due to when the injuries occurred. You also ignored that on a bad team (or less stacked team) ice time is easier to get. I can see the argument for Svechnikov being better than Marner or Drouin at 17, but I can’t agree with him currently being in a separate tier.
Fantomas
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I have made no arguments about tiers. My point simply is that Marner's high level of production reflects his situation. One has to look at context.
Don't think ice time is really an issue: no one is saying here that Marner wasn't the best forward on his team.
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