Russia's new coach: Oleg Znarok [not officially confirmed]

[Sentinel]

Bilyaletdinov would have implemented the same style even if Russia had skilled dmen. That's his style, always been. I agree with everything else you said though. The lack of skilled dmen certainly hurt the transition game.

If Russia had skilled d-man, Bill's model would have worked. All three Finnish goals were caused by defensemen mistakes.

Re-watching Russia-USA game: I think Russia played extremely well. They outplayed Americans for the most of the game. If only they played like that against Finland... or at least made some adjustments.

Znarok will make them even more defensive-minded. Which is a horrible idea, IMO.

 

[XokkeyGuy]

Again.

Has there been anything said about the russian coaching staff? Will Bilyaletdinov get kicked and replaced or are they letting him stay and for how long? WC? WC+?

 

[VladNYC*]

You're dreaming. If fringe players like Bochenski, Dawes, Boyd, Wilson, Wolski, Cheechoo, Heska, Lee, Quint and Robinson can go over to the KHL and be near the top of the scoring race, KHL players aren't going to get it done. When are the Russian hockey federation and Russian fans going to learn that?

Finalnd whooped our ass with a team half full of KHL players.

We have a lot of smart, hard working players in the KHL who certainly can perform better than the effort our "NHL Stars" have been putting out.

 

[Fantomas]

If Russia had skilled d-man, Bill's model would have worked. All three Finnish goals were caused by defensemen mistakes.

Re-watching Russia-USA game: I think Russia played extremely well. They outplayed Americans for the most of the game. If only they played like that against Finland... or at least made some adjustments.

Znarok will make them even more defensive-minded. Which is a horrible idea, IMO.

What model. There's no model.

Bill made his own players hate him. He didn't make any adjustments. He didn't even pull the goalie on his own.

What model. No freaking model. Get bloody real.

Model my rear end. Model idiot more like it.

 

[Fantomas]

Why Znarok. Why now.

Shouldn't the Russians let this breathe, give this some thought?

Time to hire a Canadian. Maybe a Finn.

I will tell you who my pick is: that Finnish world junior coach. He was awesome. Shower him with money.

 

[FiLe]

I will tell you who my pick is: that Finnish world junior coach. He was awesome. Shower him with money.

Too bad he's contractually obliged to the Finnish Ice Hockey Association.

Yes yes, money talks and all that. And there certainly are precedents how the seeming obliging contracts of Liiga coaches and players turn into scrap paper when enough moolah enters play, but it's not about the payout to the guy himself, but his employer. And FIHA is one of the most well-off sports organizations in Finland. On top of their regular income, they just made 8-million profit by hosting two World Championships in a row.

And they sure as heck know what piece of solid gold they've got in their hands. Yeah, they're not gonna let him walk.


If you want a Finnish coach who has a system but does not play total defense AND has some merit, there's one in SKA. He's free dibs.

 

[Macman]

Why Znarok. Why now.

Shouldn't the Russians let this breathe, give this some thought?

Time to hire a Canadian. Maybe a Finn.

I will tell you who my pick is: that Finnish world junior coach. He was awesome. Shower him with money.

Playing better defence is one thing, but would Russian fans stomach the amount of trapping that team did?

 

[SergeiMomessov]

Erkki Westerlund would be a good coach for Russia

 

[FiLe]

Playing better defence is one thing, but would Russian fans stomach the amount of trapping that team did?

Funny how a team that's all about defensive play and "trap" was still able to score five vs. the almighty Canada. But sure, keep telling yourself that.

Finland's playstyle is NOT the classic neutral-zone trap. What they do is protect the center of ice. That directs the play into corners and forces the opposition to take shots from sectors that are easy pickings for the goalie. Once they're the ones with the puck however, no forward is told to play it safe and not be creative with offensive play. Save for the moments when protecting a comfortable lead, of course. But then again, ALL teams do that at those waning moments of the game.

It's arguably a b*tch to play against and sure, can create major frustration among the opposing players (and their fans), but there are no style points awarded in hockey. It's effective and allows you to both protect your own net and create scoring chances.

 

[Macman]

Funny how a team that's all about defensive play and "trap" was still able to score five vs. the almighty Canada. But sure, keep telling yourself that.

Finland's playstyle is NOT the classic neutral-zone trap. What they do is protect the center of ice. That directs the play into corners and forces the opposition to take shots from sectors that are easy pickings for the goalie. Once they're the ones with the puck however, no forward is told to play it safe and not be creative with offensive play. Save for the moments when protecting a comfortable lead, of course. But then again, ALL teams do that at those waning moments of the game.

It's arguably a b*tch to play against and sure, can create major frustration among the opposing players (and their fans), but there are no style points awarded in hockey. It's effective and allows you to both protect your own net and create scoring chances.

Playing the trap doesn't preclude a team from scoring some goals, but it was a trap nonetheless.
Finland's defence was incredible in that tournament. No insult intended.

 

[Canuck21t]

If Russia had skilled d-man, Bill's model would have worked. All three Finnish goals were caused by defensemen mistakes.

Re-watching Russia-USA game: I think Russia played extremely well. They outplayed Americans for the most of the game. If only they played like that against Finland... or at least made some adjustments.

Znarok will make them even more defensive-minded. Which is a horrible idea, IMO.

Yeah, but the US team was not that great, Finland was a better team.

 

[FiLe]

Playing the trap doesn't preclude a team from scoring some goals, but it was a trap nonetheless.

No it wasn't. Trap means total defense in the neutral zone. All Finland defended was the middle ice of defensive end, blocking the primary scoring lanes. They had no qualms letting the opposition get across the blueline, as long as the play was led into corners or easy shots towards the goalie.

Have to say though, that playstyle can lead to tons more frustration for the opposition than regular trap, since it does lead to quite a handful of shots on goal. Nothing just goes in, which can make the players (and their fans) think they're hitting their head against a wall. But trap it is not. Simply Finnish coaches outcoaching everyone else.

 

[Macman]

No it wasn't. Trap means total defense in the neutral zone. All Finland defended was the middle ice of defensive end, blocking the primary scoring lanes. They had no qualms letting the opposition get across the blueline, as long as the play was led into corners or easy shots towards the goalie.

Have to say though, that playstyle can lead to tons more frustration for the opposition than regular trap, since it does lead to quite a handful of shots on goal. Nothing just goes in, which can make the players (and their fans) think they're hitting their head against a wall. But trap it is not. Simply Finnish coaches outcoaching everyone else.

I don't claim to have seen every Finn game but I was in Malmo and was at the Canada-Finland game and Finland was trapping in the neutral zone, sorry. Canada had a hell of a time getting through the neutral zone, leading to turnovers and to guys like Drouin trying to stickhandle through everyone out of frustration. The Finns didn't relinquish their zone at all. Trap is not a dirty word.

 

[FiLe]

I don't claim to have seen every Finn game but I was in Malmo and was at the Canada-Finland game and Finland was trapping in the neutral zone, sorry. Canada had a hell of a time getting through the neutral zone, leading to turnovers and to guys like Drouin trying to stickhandle through everyone out of frustration. The Finns didn't relinquish their zone at all. Trap is not a dirty word.

Finland does not systematically have four men under the game as in full neutral zone trap, but only as many as is needed to stop the rush - in other words +1 to the players taking part in opposition's rush. Sometimes this may lead to positioning that resembles the tradititional trap, but it's not a rule of their game in the same manner, say, Norway utilizes full-on trap play.

And Drouin getting frustrated is not an indication of Finland using trap, but simply of frustration when nothing gets done. There are more ways to achieve this than simply playing trap. Of course, part of Finland's game plan is to specifically frustrate their opposition, because this tends to lead into far more individual mistakes.

And I know trap is not a dirty word. If you've paid any attention, you should note that I haven't exactly called Finland's playstyle cleaner than trap - on the contrary, all this time I've been saying it's something far more devious. Which kind of renders your comment of "stomaching" that playstyle moot - trust me, it's highly entertaining to someone who's actually a fan of the team utilizing it.

 

[Macman]

Finland does not systematically have four men under the game as in full neutral zone trap, but only as many as is needed to stop the rush - in other words +1 to the players taking part in opposition's rush. Sometimes this may lead to positioning that resembles the tradititional trap, but it's not a rule of their game in the same manner, say, Norway utilizes full-on trap play.

And Drouin getting frustrated is not an indication of Finland using trap, but simply of frustration when nothing gets done. There are more ways to achieve this than simply playing trap. Of course, part of Finland's game plan is to specifically frustrate their opposition, because this tends to lead into far more individual mistakes.

And I know trap is not a dirty word. If you've paid any attention, you should note that I haven't exactly called Finland's playstyle cleaner than trap - on the contrary, all this time I've been saying it's something far more devious. Which kind of renders your comment of "stomaching" that playstyle moot - trust me, it's highly entertaining to someone who's actually a fan of the team utilizing it.

Yeah, but my use of stomaching was directed as Russians, not you, assuming you're not Russian. They
generally like to believe their game is more beautiful and therefore superior to everyone else's. Would they accept a less pleasing style if it meant ending their Olympic goose egg?

 

[FiLe]

Yeah, but my use of stomaching was directed as Russians, not you, assuming you're not Russian. They
generally like to believe their game is more beautiful and therefore superior to everyone else's. Would they accept a less pleasing style if it meant ending their Olympic goose egg?

But here is the thing. How is "less pleasing" determined, because that is above all and everything a purely subjective term? You of course don't find the Finnish playstyle pleasing at all because it frustrates the heck out of your guys and makes them struggle.

Before we can ask whether someone could "stomach" an unpleasing playstyle, we must determine whether a playstyle is pleasing or unpleasing in the first place. And if I dare say, you sir are not the best possible judge of that.

For what it's worth, neither am I. Which means that the point remains moot up 'til the moment somebody rips a page off the Finnish game plan and tries to apply it to the Russian NT.

 

[russianhockey]

its near official now: Znarok will become the new headcoach (Vitolinsh will be his assistent)

 

[russianhockey]

http://www.championat.com/hockey/news-1786353-znarok-pokinet-moskovskoe-dinamo-radi-sbornoj-rossii.html

 

[The Bad Guy*]

If this turns out true,it would be great for Russian hockey, with Znaroks coaching style he could make Russia unstoppable.

No coach in the world can make them unstoppable at the moment because from the top of the lineup to the bottom the talent just isn't there for this to happen, a coach can't make a Medvedev into a Doughty.


The skill just isn't there in Russian hockey from the goalies to the defense to 4 lines of players to match up to the likes of the Canada's Swedens and U.S.A's of the world in best on bests let alone dominate them.


This isn't the 1970's anymore and several countries have passed them by at the moment, it's a tough pill to swallow for them but it is what it is.

A coach certainly can make them more competitive and get the most out of them but any fantasies of unstoppability are just that at this point in time, a fantasy.With the players they have to throw out there in competition to the other top teams what you are saying is impossible just by bringing in some miracle coach.

 

[FiLe]

No coach in the world can make them unstoppable at the moment because from the top of the lineup to the bottom the talent just isn't there for this to happen, a coach can't make a Medvedev into a Doughty.

Unless said coach actually has the cojones to drop Medvedev and his like and actually pick some Doughty-like players instead. How did it go again... pick the right players, not the best ones.

Of course, there seems to be a fair amount of executive meddling in Russian hockey, which won't make things easy.

 

[Fantomas]

Unless said coach actually has the cojones to drop Medvedev and his like and actually pick some Doughty-like players instead. How did it go again... pick the right players, not the best ones.

Of course, there seems to be a fair amount of executive meddling in Russian hockey, which won't make things easy.

Oh, right. Those Doughty-like players. All of those.

Almost forgot about them.

Good luck, Oleg.

 

[fedfed]

Znarok, just like Bill, won't be able to do anything without giving his team a long grueling preseason. Same mistake as hiring Bilyaletdinov. Best club coach != best national team coach.

 

[FiLe]

Oh, right. Those Doughty-like players. All of those.

Almost forgot about them.

The fact that you don't know about them does not mean they couldn't exist. Russia's player pool is wide and deep enough that some may be found is a coach is willing to go out there and look for them.

Of course nobody is saying that they're as good as Doughty, but if Znarok wants to make the Russian NT play in his preferred manner, he is still better off with guys who are willing to adopt his game plan and play as a team rather than trying to convert the current bunch of floaters.

But like I said, this could be a moot effort if the higher-ups in the Russian Ice Hockey Federation insist he take said floaters regardless.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

The fact that you don't know about them does not mean they couldn't exist. Russia's player pool is wide and deep enough that some may be found is a coach is willing to go out there and look for them.

Of course nobody is saying that they're as good as Doughty, but if Znarok wants to make the Russian NT play in his preferred manner, he is still better off with guys who are willing to adopt his game plan and play as a team rather than trying to convert the current bunch of floaters.

But like I said, this could be a moot effort if the higher-ups in the Russian Ice Hockey Federation insist he take said floaters regardless.

This is basically what I said, it would allow them to reach their potential and get better results, but it wouldn't make them unstoppable like the poster i was replying to said it would.

They don't have the players for that, no coaching in the world is going to make Russia unstoppable at this point in time.

 

[SashaSemin28]

Znarok, just like Bill, won't be able to do anything without giving his team a long grueling preseason. Same mistake as hiring Bilyaletdinov. Best club coach != best national team coach.

Is it bad I want Bykov back?