Russia is the favorite again!
- Thread starter Siberian
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monster_bertuzzi said:
i dont think jessiman is on the team... brown woulda been a huge player too bad.
Ismellofhockey
Registered User
- Mar 31, 2002
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KariyaIsGod said:
Bouwmeester was drafted in 2002, like Nash, so I made a mistake.
Anyway, it's almost unfair that the russian kids get to play in what works out to be the AHL while our guys come from the minors. Add the bigger ice surface and Canada really needs those NHLers at the U20s. If these were Soviet days, I'd say it was a conspiracy but those days are gone and so I have to revert to the somewhat more sensical if less thrilling cliché of saying: "We need to give those russians some breaks if they want a chance to compete with almighty Canada"
Ismellofhockey said:
Bouwmeester was drafted in 2002, like Nash, so I made a mistake.
Anyway, it's almost unfair that the russian kids get to play in what works out to be the AHL while our guys come from the minors. Add the bigger ice surface and Canada really needs those NHLers at the U20s. If these were Soviet days, I'd say it was a conspiracy but those days are gone and so I have to revert to the somewhat more sensical if less thrilling cliché of saying: "We need to give those russians some breaks if they want a chance to compete with almighty Canada"
im pretty sure bo is still eligible....but im going to officially check because nash is eligible
Epsilon
#basta
Ismellofhockey said:
Bouwmeester was drafted in 2002, like Nash, so I made a mistake.
Anyway, it's almost unfair that the russian kids get to play in what works out to be the AHL while our guys come from the minors. Add the bigger ice surface and Canada really needs those NHLers at the U20s. If these were Soviet days, I'd say it was a conspiracy but those days are gone and so I have to revert to the somewhat more sensical if less thrilling cliché of saying: "We need to give those russians some breaks if they want a chance to compete with almighty Canada"
This post takes the homerism prize away from the thread starter, which is really saying something. If it was meant to be serious of course, although at WJC time I'm never one to assume that shameless homerism is actually sarcasm because more often than not that assumption would be very incorrect.
Epsilon said:
How is that homerism?
He basically said two things.
A) The used to be conspiracies made to undermine Canada's ice hockey teams in international play. He's right about that.
B) He said that the Russians need some breaks to beat Team Canada's actual crop of talent this year and they do. They would not beat team Canada if Canada had all it's NHLers and they've gotten a break since those guys have not been lent to the WJC team.
He certainly said it in shall we say, a more homeristic manner, but he wasn't wrong which means it's not homerism.
Epsilon
#basta
KariyaIsGod said:
Actually he's claiming that:
1. It's unfair that Russian players get to play in pro leagues while Canadian players don't. This is of course 100% on the shoulders of the CHL and so there's really nothing more to be said about it. Where "fairness" comes in I have no idea.
2. That somehow the big ice surface is such a disadvantage Canada can't win without NHL players in the lineup. This is nonsense as many of Canada's teams in the early 90's were successful with minimal use of NHL players in key positions.
3. That these two things would constitute a "conspiracy" against Canada when in fact things have always been this way. It's the fault of the NHL and CHL that 19 year old Canadian kids can't play in the AHL, no one else is responsible. And the size of the ice surface hasn't changed.
4. The Russians don't need any breaks from anyone to win. While their team is nowhere near as good as the person who started this thread claims, they can still beat any other team on the right day. We heard all this "unbeatable" crap in Nagano and look how that turned out.
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
Ismellofhockey said:
Bouwmeester was drafted in 2002, like Nash, so I made a mistake.
Anyway, it's almost unfair that the russian kids get to play in what works out to be the AHL while our guys come from the minors
The perceived notion that coming from a men's league is a significant advantage is faulty.
This myth is one of the most frequent reason I see weak player assessments in this prospect forum.
Actually he's claiming that:
2. That somehow the big ice surface is such a disadvantage Canada can't win without NHL players in the lineup. This is nonsense as many of Canada's teams in the early 90's were successful with minimal use of NHL players in key positions.
But the 1995 canada jr team was probably one of the greatest junior teams ever and that was b/c of the NHL lock out. they went undefeated in the old style of tourny and that is amazing. so u have to think that if every team had all their NHL players on it that Canada would be the favorite.
2. That somehow the big ice surface is such a disadvantage Canada can't win without NHL players in the lineup. This is nonsense as many of Canada's teams in the early 90's were successful with minimal use of NHL players in key positions.
But the 1995 canada jr team was probably one of the greatest junior teams ever and that was b/c of the NHL lock out. they went undefeated in the old style of tourny and that is amazing. so u have to think that if every team had all their NHL players on it that Canada would be the favorite.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Vlad The Impaler said:
Very true, especially when you consider many young players that do in fact play against "men" aren't exactly getting premium minutes, it's almost more of a learning on the job apprenticeship than anything else.
Siberian
Registered User
Kugel said:
1995 is right in the middle of the period (1990-1999) when Russian hockey was in coma if not dead. You can say as much as you want about greatness of Canadian team of 1995 and I will tell you about non-existence of the real competition.
Whoever followed the recent WC games for U-20 notice how much different Russian team has become since Russian league started getting investments and implemented this 3-U20 rule. The kids playing among men will have an advantage against the other kids playing among kids.
All I am saying is that Russia should be considered pretendent number One, but it is just the game of hockey and anything can happen in the short tournament.
I willl laugh in your face if Russia doesnt win gold or silver. Of course if they do win I will laugh in your face from how silly sick Ovechkin is. Hope the pens get him!!!Siberian said:
Epsilon
#basta
Kugel said:
Depends somewhat on the year. It's not surprising given how heavy the 2003 draft class was in North Americans that we would have that situation this year. On the other hand, Kovalchuk could have been on the Russian team in either year following the 2001 draft, and wasn't.
Slay
Registered User
Slay said:
Did you see the officiating during the Summit Series?
Hell, even last year at the WJCs, Sweden should have been called for at least 5 interferance penalties that were called. It's not like they were marginal, hard to make calls. They were blatant.
I'm not saying that the world has some giant conspiracy to screw Canada hockey, but they have gotten the short end of the stick numerous times, the Summit Series being the earliest I can remember.
Slick Nick
Registered User
Ismellofhockey
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- Mar 31, 2002
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,
Wow doesn't this smiley mean anything anymore? Definitely did not want that post to mean anything other than childish ribbing...
BUT, Vlad, I don't understand why it wouldn't be an advantage that the russians play with men in a league where the gameplay is on a much higher level. They may not have more potential than the other prospects from around the world but they certainly get the opportunity to mature faster. It would also encourage them to develop physically a lot faster. It doesn't mean the russians in the RSL are always better prospects, simply that their development is quicker.
Wow doesn't this smiley
mean anything anymore? Definitely did not want that post to mean anything other than childish ribbing...BUT, Vlad, I don't understand why it wouldn't be an advantage that the russians play with men in a league where the gameplay is on a much higher level. They may not have more potential than the other prospects from around the world but they certainly get the opportunity to mature faster. It would also encourage them to develop physically a lot faster. It doesn't mean the russians in the RSL are always better prospects, simply that their development is quicker.
Slay
Registered User
KariyaIsGod said:
I can ask you absolutely the same! Did you see the officiating during the Summit Series? Canadians were very rough, they looked as bad guys out there, they were elbowing pretty often that is not even funny and they were not receiving penalties for that in the games that took place in Canada.
Here some videos. I recorded few good moments from the game long time ago but it happened that "elbowing" was there:
alexovechkin.narod.ru/video/Maltsev.avi
alexovechkin.narod.ru/video/Yakushev.avi
KariyaIsGod said:
Hell, what Russia have to do with it?
I can also try to blame US referee in Olympic semifinal vs USA that he refused to watch reply of debatable goal that could tie the game. The referee at the WJC 2002 final that gave penalty to Volchenkov for elbowing but it was just clear hit using shoulder and Canada tied the game...
KariyaIsGod said:
lol probably that is why most of what Canada won it won in NA eh?
Oh and Emanuel Sandue "won" his only international title [lately] in NA too, weird eh? Can you win outside of your box or you can't because whole world agaist you?
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Ismellofhockey said:
If these were Soviet days the USSR would be unstopable with players like Kastitsyn, Pushkarev, Vanek all on the team.
Slay
Registered User
Yeah, Vanek would not be on the team. He is Austrian. Austria was never under Soviet rule so he couldn't play with USSR.Slay said:
Slay said:
This makes me sick
I can't believe somebody would think that when Canada wins within North America, it is because of some sort of cheating.
Slay
Registered User
Bud The Spud said:This makes me sick
It was just reply (probably harsh a bit) to mistrustful KariyaIsGod so don't take it too serious Bud.
PS: I still can't call the victory of Emanuel Sandue fair. Judges often tends to sympathize to host though, but there have to be some limits.
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Siberian
Registered User
Slay said:
What a nice way to kill topic by moving to a place where nobody goes. I wondered why this board lacks posters......
What should have just been a normal thread quickly deteriorated into perhaps one of the worst threads from top to bottom i have ever had to sift thru. It is full of misinformation, lies, over the top Bravado, whining about who is not there, Austria as part of the former USSR and then ends with figure skating. Its not even entertaining jabs back in forth, each post is worse than the previous post{ not all as there are a few decent posts mixed in but not enough to save it} Would the mod please put this crap out of its misery. Just awful.
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