Run-off Poll: Sakic '01 Vs Thornton '06 Vs McDavid '24
- Thread starter DitchMarner
- Start date
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
Adjusted totals (hockeyreference):
Sakic: 59 goals, 128 points
Thornton: 29 goals, 121 points
McDavid: 32 goals, 130 points
2001:
2006:
2024:
Sakic: 59 goals, 128 points
Thornton: 29 goals, 121 points
McDavid: 32 goals, 130 points
2001:
2006:
2024:
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
Arguments for Sakic:
Best balance between goals and assists and best goal scoring output
Barely beaten in scoring by Jagr (aided by Lemieux) and well ahead of the rest of the pack; better adjusted totals than Thornton and better peer domination than McDavid
Arguments for Thornton:
Only Art Ross-winning season of the three
Possibly the worst offensive support of the three
Arguments for McDavid:
Best actual and adjusted point totals of the three seasons
Best balance between goals and assists and best goal scoring output
Barely beaten in scoring by Jagr (aided by Lemieux) and well ahead of the rest of the pack; better adjusted totals than Thornton and better peer domination than McDavid
Arguments for Thornton:
Only Art Ross-winning season of the three
Possibly the worst offensive support of the three
Arguments for McDavid:
Best actual and adjusted point totals of the three seasons
Nathaniel Skywalker
DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
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Video Nasty
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For those who like knowing how much each player contributed to their team’s offensive production and where each team ranked in goals for the season:
Sakic:
118 points on 270 Colorado goals (4th most in the league) 43.7%
Thornton:
33 points on 81 Boston goals (3.12 GPG with him on team, 2.66 GPG without him)
92 points on 203 San Jose goals (2.58 GPG without him on team, 3.50 GPG with him)
125 points total on 284 goals (1 shootout goal subtracted, the combined total would be 4th most in the league) 44.0%
McDavid:
132 points on 292 Edmonton goals (2 shootout goals subtracted, 4th most in the league) 45.2%
Close no matter how one slices it. Factoring in the context of McDavid playing injured all season and missing 6 games, and still doing what he did probably makes him the most impressive, but I’m sticking with Thornton because he won the hardware and had such an extreme effect on his team’s production.
Sakic:
118 points on 270 Colorado goals (4th most in the league) 43.7%
Thornton:
33 points on 81 Boston goals (3.12 GPG with him on team, 2.66 GPG without him)
92 points on 203 San Jose goals (2.58 GPG without him on team, 3.50 GPG with him)
125 points total on 284 goals (1 shootout goal subtracted, the combined total would be 4th most in the league) 44.0%
McDavid:
132 points on 292 Edmonton goals (2 shootout goals subtracted, 4th most in the league) 45.2%
Close no matter how one slices it. Factoring in the context of McDavid playing injured all season and missing 6 games, and still doing what he did probably makes him the most impressive, but I’m sticking with Thornton because he won the hardware and had such an extreme effect on his team’s production.
Grate n Colorful Oz
The Hutson Hawk
I'd say it's similar to McDavid. The moment McDavid really turned it on is when the Oilers turnaround started, on Nov 24th.
They were 5-12-1 before that game and McDavid had 16pts in 16 games. He then had 116pts in the next 60 games, never looking back and the team's record skyrocketed, going 43-13-4 in those 60 games. Going purely on total GF in that sequence, they scored 232 goals and McDavid was in on 50% of that.
What I find most impressive though is that being the most disadvantaged by league output (vs adjusted stats), he had the most EV points of all three players, 87 vs 72 for Thornton vs 66 for Sakic. Even better, he had more EV pts than either of them in those 60 games (79) where the Oilers were ressurected.
He also accomplished something rarely talked about, but still very significant:
Only two players have ever had 50 primary assists in 50 games or less in a season. Gretzky did it 9 times and Lemieux did it twice. McDavid became the 3rd player to do it last season, from nov 24th till march 21st (iirc), he had 51 A1 in 49 games. Two players came close. Elmer Lach in Mo Richard's 50/50 season in 44-45, who had 47 in 50, and Pat Lafontaine in 92-93, whose best sequence was 44 in 50.
Not relevant to this thread, but McDavid continued that torrid pace, finishing his last 60 games with 58x A1s, and adding 24 more in 25 games in the playoffs, becoming the 2nd player to get 20 or more A1s in the playoffs (all other players are at 18 or lower). Gretzky still holds the record at 25.
At the moment, he has 82 primary assists in his last 85 games played and that's the most anyone not named Gretzky has ever had in a similar sequence.
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I'd go:
1 - Sakic
2 - McDavid
3 - Thornton
I think it's super close between Sakic and McDavid, but I'd use the significant difference in goals as tie breaker....but that doesn't tend to hold a lot of weight for me. Would be different if we were talking about a guy that scored 15 goals, but McDavid did score more than 30, so he's not lacking there.
1 - Sakic
2 - McDavid
3 - Thornton
I think it's super close between Sakic and McDavid, but I'd use the significant difference in goals as tie breaker....but that doesn't tend to hold a lot of weight for me. Would be different if we were talking about a guy that scored 15 goals, but McDavid did score more than 30, so he's not lacking there.
Depends on how you do the adjustment though....my simple adjusted stats had Sakic with 133pts and McDavid 132pts. There is no right or wrong there.....adjusted stats are flawed from the beginning.
McDavid hit the 100 assist mark along with kuch 22 point gap between him and fifth place and a 34 point gap from tenth Sakic 23 point gap between him and fifth and a 29 point gap between him and 3rd. Thornton had a 22 point gap between him and 5th and a 32 point gap between him and tenth. In comparison McDavid has a slight edge vs the rest of the field he also had a ppg of 0.03 over Mackinnon and 0.04 less than kucherov same difference between Sakic and Jagr as well as Thorton over Jagr. Very very similar seasons with thorton having the only hardware and Sakic having 50 goals and separating himself from his closest competion by a much wider margin than either but overall McDavid was better vs the field compared to both by an ever so slim margin and got the historic 100 assist season which in itself is as huge of a feat almost as hardware.
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Perhaps you are simply referencing the Art Ross, not sure, but Sakic cleaned up that year. He was 1st Team All-Star, Hart Trophy (almost unanimous), Pearson, Lady Byng and was 2nd in Selke....just barely lost out (had the most 1st place votes).
Grate n Colorful Oz
The Hutson Hawk
McDavid had 94 primary points to Sakic's 93, in less games.
Tiebreaker should then be even strenght points, where McDavid had 87 to Sakic's 66.
Much different league scoring levels and styles. ‘01 was a lower scoring by 12% (3.09 to 2.76), so Sakic only having 1 fewer primary assists is generally a positive in his corner even with the missed games. McDavid was a better ES scorer but the difference wasn’t ans big ans the numbers as the league was even lower scoring at ES in ‘01 (1.88 ES GPG compared to 2.37 ES GPG or a 26% increase this year). Sakic was still 2nd in the league in ES points (compared to 3rd for McDavid), though McDavid was better relative to the rest of the top 10 scorers.
There is no tiebreaker "should be"....this is purely subjective, so you can use EVP as your tiebreaker and I'll use goals (but only because of the huge difference....if one had 30 goals and the other had 37, I wouldn't place too much on that).
