Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Y'all Got Any Good Goalies?

[Spawn]

Using the three years prior to this one kinda feels like that’s just for the sake of getting that career year outlier in there.

Over the past three seasons, he’s 51st in 5v5 scoring. 8 points ahead of Kulak. 10 ahead of Ceci.

Obviously I don’t mean he doesn’t produce at all. Just that it isn’t something he does well. Like Kulak and Ceci both produce about the same, but you wouldn’t use their 5v5 scoring as a selling point for them.

I was just trying to compare the time Ceci was here to Matheson at the same point. Sorry that wasn’t clear. You’ve been saying he provides the same offense as Ceci. That just isn’t true.

But even at 51st that seems pretty good? Essentially a mid to low end #2 in terms of 5v5 production?

 

[McTonyBrar]

You're always shocked when people don't want every single player Stauffer talks about haha.

Stauffer caters to the casual fan that just looks at stuff like TOI and points. Actually look into the player and you'll see they aren't the slam dunks Stauffer is trying to feed you.

Like who lol? Lmao. I'm shocked at how much people hate Matheson. I mean the guy had 62 points last year and has 16 points this year. He plays the game the way we need where he moves east to west and that's what suits

Matheson isn't the guy I'd target. His microstats show his defense is pretty porous and he heavily relies on oodles of PP time to produce. He plays PK but he's not very good at it.

Honestly I don't see much of a need to break up Nurse-Kulak either. It's working. I think we need to target a guy that's an upgrade on Stetcher. Perhaps another Kulak type strong #5 that can play top four if needed.

Is him being on a terrible team going to be a factor at all?

 

[Soundwave]

If it's a 1st+ for Matheson vs a 2nd for say Will Borgen ... I dunno. I think I might prefer Borgen in that case. I can see why Coffey would like Matheson though he has some razzle dazzle in his game. If we're giving a 1st for him I want some retention.

 

[McDNicks17]

I was just trying to compare the time Ceci was here to Matheson at the same point. Sorry that wasn’t clear. You’ve been saying he provides the same offense as Ceci. That just isn’t true.

But even at 51st that seems pretty good? Essentially a mid to low end #2 in terms of 5v5 production?

I’d say that 51st is less impressive when you consider the curve. He’s kind of just in that clump that’s behind the elite guys. Like I said, Kulak is 8 points behind him. That isn’t much in a ~195 game sample.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Like who lol? Lmao. I'm shocked at how much people hate Matheson. I mean the guy had 62 points last year and has 16 points this year. He plays the game the way we need where he moves east to west and that's what suits


Is him being on a terrible team going to be a factor at all?

Is matheson gonna replace Bouchard on the powerplay?

 

[Spawn]

Our #6 dman is still better than Ceci. He is also our PKing D. Grabbing a player like that while dumping useless cap is tidy work.

Emberson is better than Ceci.

With Emberson this year the Oilers score less, get scored on more and have worse possession numbers when you compare him to Ceci’s rates last year. And before you blame goaltending, Ceci put up better expected gf% results too.

Emberson was so unsuited to filling in for Ceci’s minutes that we’ve needed to use Kulak on his offside in our top 4. Oh, he’s also providing a fraction of the actual offensive production Ceci brought.

Emberson is a nothing bottom pairing player at this stage in his career. He’s pure filler. Saying he’s better than Ceci was for us is straight up preposterous.

 

[Soundwave]

Is matheson gonna replace Bouchard on the powerplay?

Honestly it might not be the worst thing in the world for Evan to have share some PP time.

He isn't playing good enough offensively to warrant having that place on lock and if his point totals aren't sky high, well that's not the worst thing in the world for us.

I'm in no hurry to pay this dude 11 million based on inflated McPP Points.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Dirk Dangler]

Anyone concerned with lack of toughness or push back?

Last game Jeff Skinner was absolutely leveled in front of the bench and no one gave a you know what.

I do not want a guy who only fights and plays 2 mins a game but would be up for a guy that can play and plays hard.

Does anyone else have any concerns?

Will Cuylle? Mathieu Olivier? Trent Frederic?

Yes.

 

[oXo Cube]

I’d say that 51st is less impressive when you consider the curve. He’s kind of just in that clump that’s behind the elite guys. Like I said, Kulak is 8 points behind him. That isn’t much in a ~195 game sample.

To be fair here you were dismissive of Spawn for using a sample that included an obvious outlier year for Matheson but are also ignoring that Kulak is currently in the middle of the same.

Matheson has also played 36 fewer games than Kulak over this stretch and has played for a team that has scored 74 fewer 5v5 goals in this timeframe. He's very, very clearly a superior offensive player to the group you're trying to compare him to.

 

[McDNicks17]

To be fair here you were dismissive of Spawn for using a sample that included an obvious outlier year for Matheson but also ignoring that Kulak is currently in the middle of the same.

Matheson has also played 36 fewer games than Kulak over this stretch and has played for a team that has scored 74 fewer 5v5 goals in this timeframe. He's very, very clearly a superior offensive player to the group you're trying to compare him to.

You can use Ceci who is 10 points behind then.

I’m not arguing they’re better. I’m arguing Matheson isn’t “spend all your assets and cap space for a Cup run” better.

 

[Soundwave]

EDM 1st + lower rung prospect for Matheson @30% retained + Montreal agrees to retain 1/2 on Klim Kostin to facilitate a trade with San Jose (extra toss in). I'm not sure I'm a huge Matheson fan, but it sounds like he is the guy according to Stauffer so you might as well get a bonus thrown in (Kostin).

Arvidsson + 2nd for John Gibson @30% retained


There's some risk in Gibson but there's significant risk with Arvidsson too. It's not even that I don't like Arvidsson as a player but he has been hurt a lot now the last two years at his age and size it's unlikely that will get better.

Gibson gives you a plausible 1A/1B situation here where Skinner can be pushed and should he shit the bed or get injured, at least you have an OK option who can take over the crease for a long stretch if needed. Also stylistically it gives the team two very different goalies, Gibson is one of the most athletic goalies in the league, Skinner is one of the least athletic but relies more on being positional. At least you have some choices now.

If you want to add a right shot 4C on the cheap, go ahead.

 

[Dirk Dangler]

You can use Ceci who is 10 points behind then.

I’m not arguing they’re better. I’m arguing Matheson isn’t “spend all your assets and cap space for a Cup run” better.

I haven’t read one person say. “We need to spend all our assets and cap space on Matheson for a cup run”

 

[McHelpus]

Anyone concerned with lack of toughness or push back?

Last game Jeff Skinner was absolutely leveled in front of the bench and no one gave a you know what.

I do not want a guy who only fights and plays 2 mins a game but would be up for a guy that can play and plays hard.

Does anyone else have any concerns?

Will Cuylle? Mathieu Olivier? Trent Frederic?

I would have rather Josh Anderson than J.Skinner.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

With Emberson this year the Oilers score less, get scored on more and have worse possession numbers when you compare him to Ceci’s rates last year. And before you blame goaltending, Ceci put up better expected gf% results too.

Emberson was so unsuited to filling in for Ceci’s minutes that we’ve needed to use Kulak on his offside in our top 4. Oh, he’s also providing a fraction of the actual offensive production Ceci brought.

Emberson is a nothing bottom pairing player at this stage in his career. He’s pure filler. Saying he’s better than Ceci was for us is straight up preposterous.

And comparing Embersons numbers in SJ last year to Ceci this year says Emberson is the better D. Goes both ways.

Emberson gets limited minutes with 5% offensive zone starts. I don’t expect his numbers to be nice. What’s his ice time with top 6 like compared to Ceci anyways?

He is also still a rookie and imo really struggled at the start of the year but is finding his game.

 

[McAsuno]

If we're gonna use our limited assets and cap space to acquire a legitimate top four d man for a deep playoff run again, I'd much prefer to aim higher than Matheson. He isn't a bad player by any means, but when teams like VGK goes for the moon by making their annual TDL trades for specific players the way they do, it would just leave a bitter taste in my mouth if the Oilers D target acquisition is simply Matheson.

 

[CupofOil]

You willing to bet a 1st+ on that being the reason he’s never produced at 5v5?

I'm not crazy about the price it would take to land Matheson. I'm just saying that I don't agree with the assumption that he'll automatically suck here because he sucks in a different role on a much worse team.

 

[McDNicks17]

I haven’t read one person say. “We need to spend all our assets and cap space on Matheson for a cup run”

Do you think they’re going to retain 50% on a two year deal and trade him for a 2nd or something?

 

[Cloned]

Matheson + Montembault and see what happens.

 

[stewy04]

Habs fans I know really like Matheson, says would be more then a 1st. And as a habs fan says he would be the best dman on out team lol. But I think he'd be a great 3/4 dman.

 

[Soundwave]

If we're gonna use our limited assets and cap space to acquire a legitimate top four d man for a deep playoff run again, I'd much prefer to aim higher than Matheson. He isn't a bad player by any means, but when teams like VGK goes for the moon by making their annual TDL trades for specific players the way they do, it would just leave a bitter taste in my mouth if the Oilers D target acquisition is simply Matheson.

The problem is sure Provorov for example is maybe a sexier add (maybe? Matheson did have 60+ points last year), but he also likely bolts the minute the season is over or wants an enormous contract extension we won't be able to afford.

At least with Matheson you would get someone in the top 4 who's cost controlled for 2 years.

Not saying I love this player, but team structure wise it probably suits us better for the next two years especially if the Habs retain some money.

You have to assume Coffey/Knob's defensive system can work its magic on him.

 

[Spawn]

And comparing Embersons numbers in SJ last year to Ceci this year says Emberson is the better D. Goes both ways.

Emberson gets limited minutes with 5% offensive zone starts. I don’t expect his numbers to be nice. What’s his ice time with top 6 like compared to Ceci anyways?

He is also still a rookie and imo really struggled at the start of the year but is finding his game.

I could not care less about how they play/ed in San Jose. I care about how they play/ed for the Oilers. Emberson isn't close to replacing what Ceci brought to the table here.

 

[oXo Cube]

You can use Ceci who is 10 points behind then.

I’m not arguing they’re better. I’m arguing Matheson isn’t “spend all your assets and cap space for a Cup run” better.

It's a bit more murky because Ceci has played games for multiple teams here but for the most part everything I said about Kulak also applies to Ceci. Better team, more games, worse production.

Matheson is 41st in 5v5 EVP/60*(how's that for some stat digging, lol) over the time period you specified. Kulak is 114th and that includes his obvious unsustainable stretch. Ceci is 157th. He's on a completely different level than they are.

*I set NST to min 1000TOI to filter out noise. Adjusting this may move these players around somewhat

 

[McAsuno]

The problem is sure Provorov for example is maybe a sexier add (maybe? Matheson did have 60+ points last year), but he also likely bolts the minute the season is over or wants an enormous contract extension we won't be able to afford.

At least with Matheson you would get someone in the top 4 who's cost controlled for 2 years.

Not saying I love this player, but team structure wise it probably suits us better for the next two years especially if the Habs retain some money.

You have to assume Coffey/Knob's defensive system can work its magic on him.

I already see VGK getting Provorov just based from the BWK connection with him and McCrimmon anyways. Idk who else is out there to target, but I'm pretty much in the boat of mehhhh when it comes to Matheson.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I've been away. What happened to that big right shot defensemen we grabbed from Boston off waivers?

Still imjured