Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | With Klingberg in the Mix Who Are Our 7D After the Deadline?

[bobbythebrain]

I’m going to say yes they do, because how many games over his last 10 starts has he given up 3 first period goals? The answer is 5. How many times were they down 3-0 or 4-0 in the first? That answer is 4. Two of those five games it happened against where he gave up 3 goals in the first was Colorado, who they could face in round 1. They fought back to win one of those games they were down 3-0 (Colorado) and lost the other three (Pittsburgh, Vancouver, Toronto). 40% of the time over the last 10 games he’s getting lit up in the first and putting the team in a big hole. That’s not starting goaltender numbers over any 10 game stretch anywhere in a season.

That can’t happen in the playoffs when teams tighten up defensively. The proof is in the pudding with his poor record and poor stats against higher ranked teams he’s not a good goalie. Nobody on that team is going to publicly call him out, unless JT Miller was an Oiler but they see what we see. They’re professional hockey players, they’re being professional but I’d guarantee there are text messages and private conversations amongst some players how they’d like better goaltending.

I see the Oilers goaltending as being very similar to the 05/06 team right now, pre-trade deadline. We saw what getting a better goalie can do to a team’s confidence.

Meh. I don't buy this for a second, no matter how you spin it

You think the coaches and players DON"T recognize missed assignments? You think they don't see Stetcher missing a tie up despite it being in the first period?

You think they don't see Skinner making 2 amazing saves in the first despite 3 shots in the first...and who was to blame for those shots?

Better yet, if it breaks down to EXACTLY how you spin it...why hasn't he been pulled more? Literally the only logical answer would be that the ORG and STOOOOOOOOOOPID coaching staff are muppets controlled by the untouchable Schwartz....which is basically the sentiment around here

There is a reason he got pulled last game vs games like St Louis and Det....despite the shots

Care to figure out why?

 

[alphahelix]

GSAx over the last 3 years, Skinner is at 7.1 GSAx, and Gibson is at -6.5 GSAx. Gibson has an upward trend, and is playing much better this year. Especially on a bad ducks team that have ranged 1st to 3rd in the league with only worst teams in the sharks and blackhawks as competition of getting more shots against from the opposition. Goaltending is voodoo, but I'd easily place a bet on a guy playing better on a worse team compared to a guy who's playing worst on an elite team any single given day.

I dunno, I look at that chart and I see an older goalie that has been clearly worse than Skinner in 2/3 of the last years and hasn’t played meaningful hockey in like a decade. I’d rather go for Vejmelka

 

[foshizzle]

Teams must salivate seeing that. Having a line or two not ready to go for puck drop is one thing, having the goalie not ready is another.

100%.

 

[foshizzle]

I dunno, I look at that chart and I see an older goalie that has been clearly worse than Skinner in 2/3 of the last years and hasn’t played meaningful hockey in like a decade. I’d rather go for Vejmelka

31 isn’t old. Skinner is 26. I keep hearing from the talking heads that Skinner is still “young” and goalies don’t hit their primes until their late 20’s and early 30’s.

Gibson has been on an absolute tire fire of an organization. The ducks are usually out of playoff contention in the first month and that can have huge impact on a goalie who is competitive. It’s hard trying to kill yourself to make saves when your organization doesn’t care. Not surprising that Gibson is playing better this year since the team in front of him has shown some heart and semblance of caring

 

[BlackZer0]

I'm assuming the team isn't making any moves until the deadline. Skinner seems to be the biggest talking point right now for everyone. I think the team is going to and has to give him as many starts possible until the trade deadline. Then evaluate if they need another option at starting goalie.

Who are the options?
Gibson is the only one available. I do think he's an upgrade, but the 6.4 cap hit is the problem and what is it going to take for retention.

Vejmelka is another option, but he's likely not available right now. Utah is 6pts back from a WC spot and Ingram got hurt recently. They'll likely not make a decision until March 7th.
Team also needs a pacey PKer or grit and depth D.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

What would they even give Boston for Marchand. They do not have a first this year or next. Their seconds, like the Oilers, would be basically like early thirds from 8 years ago. And its not like they have a lot of really good prospects.

That's why we need to pony up during our window and add something more than Donato. Our competition will be getting stronger.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

The biggest piss off will be if good players get traded for cheap and we aren't in on them. If Marchand goes to Tampa, VGK or Dallas and we could have matched the deal that will be inexcusable.

It's one thing to not be able to afford to trade for players and It's another thing to trade a 1st round pick for Adam Henrique during a "cup or bust" season.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Someone go check the sv% of the previous goalies in the first period. I think back to that Hawks series and how it was over before the first period even ended.

 

[VeteranPresence]

Meh. I don't buy this for a second, no matter how you spin it

You don’t buy that putting your team down 3-0 or 4-0 after 20 minutes is bad. Okay.

What then in your mind would represent bad goaltending?

 

[CanadasTeam99]

You don’t buy that putting your team down 3-0 or 4-0 after 20 minutes is bad. Okay.

What then in your mind would represent bad goaltending?

Skinner could allow 5 goals in first periods for ten games straight and it would be fine for some. Probably blame all 50 goals on bad reads by the dmen

 

[Canovin]

I dunno, I look at that chart and I see an older goalie that has been clearly worse than Skinner in 2/3 of the last years and hasn’t played meaningful hockey in like a decade. I’d rather go for Vejmelka

Vejmelka is an UFA. No guarantee he will sign. Gibson would be a better option now. Sign Vejmelka if he's interested in coming to Edmonton and trade Stuart in the offseason now that I have the time to think about it.

 

[aspin3]

Ive been telling anyone who will listen that the goaltending for the Oilers hasn't been good enough. Having said that, I think we need to ease off him a little bit - it's not personal. We don't hate Skinner, we just have higher standards in a cup year.

I dont know why the media can't just be more open about it without being called haters. Why can't we just call a spade a spade? Goaltending hasnt been good enough. The more they defend Skinner the more it brings out angry fans and it just causes more friction and a divisive fan base.

No, the media will blame everyone but the goalies until they are eventually traded. Then they will crap on them until the cows come home.

The issue is this would be a bigger mistake than getting rid of Dubnyk and seeing him win the Vezina. Gibson is not an elite that will make a difference and has the real chance of blowing up in our face. The last two years he couldnt even hit .900 save percentage. People think that is because he is on bad team. That is not always how it works. The more peppered you are with shots from everywhere can even work for your favour for save %, not GAA but save % because if you get peppered with 50 shows you arent going to let in 10 goals.

Let's not forget the guy is turning 32 years old and his numbers are better this year because he is not carrying the load.....not even playing half the games.

 

[aspin3]

31 isn’t old. Skinner is 26. I keep hearing from the talking heads that Skinner is still “young” and goalies don’t hit their primes until their late 20’s and early 30’s.

Gibson has been on an absolute tire fire of an organization. The ducks are usually out of playoff contention in the first month and that can have huge impact on a goalie who is competitive. It’s hard trying to kill yourself to make saves when your organization doesn’t care. Not surprising that Gibson is playing better this year since the team in front of him has shown some heart and semblance of caring

The last two years he couldnt even hit .900 save percentage. People think that is because he is on bad team. That is not always how it works. The more peppered you are with shots from everywhere can even work for your favour for save %, not GAA but save % because if you get peppered with 50 shows you arent going to let in 10 goals.

Let's not forget the guy is turning 32 years old and his numbers are better this year because he is not carrying the load.....not even playing half the games. He has not demonstrated AT all that he can carry a the load of a starter in the last 5 years. this would be a bigger mistake than getting rid of Dubnyk and seeing him win the Vezina. Gibson is not an elite that will make a difference and has the real chance of blowing up in our face.

 

[CupofOil]

Then he is the dumbest GM in all of pro sports. We have to hope he is lying, and trying to keep prices for those pieces low. If not we will never win a Cup in the Bowman (and therefore McDrai) era.

Just reading through the giant whinefest in the thread, my god guys, and saw this gem.
The deadline is March 7th so save your incessant whining for after the deadline if proper trades don't occur. Obviously he's not going to broadcast his intentions in public.

FTR, I think the Oilers should look at upgrading the goaltending and if Gibson retained is that guy then so be it. I think we should just wait until the deadline before declaring management a failure.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

The last two years he couldnt even hit .900 save percentage. People think that is because he is on bad team. That is not always how it works. The more peppered you are with shots from everywhere can even work for your favour for save %, not GAA but save % because if you get peppered with 50 shows you arent going to let in 10 goals.

Let's not forget the guy is turning 32 years old and his numbers are better this year because he is not carrying the load.....not even playing half the games. He has not demonstrated AT all that he can carry a the load of a starter in the last 5 years. this would be a bigger mistake than getting rid of Dubnyk and seeing him win the Vezina. Gibson is not an elite that will make a difference and has the real chance of blowing up in our face.

Name a starting goalie who sustained a good sv% for years on a bottom of the league team. Im struggling to think of any.

Either way getting peppered by shots under Eakins system I imagine isn’t a good thing.

 

[frag2]

The issue is this would be a bigger mistake than getting rid of Dubnyk and seeing him win the Vezina. Gibson is not an elite that will make a difference and has the real chance of blowing up in our face. The last two years he couldnt even hit .900 save percentage. People think that is because he is on bad team. That is not always how it works. The more peppered you are with shots from everywhere can even work for your favour for save %, not GAA but save % because if you get peppered with 50 shows you arent going to let in 10 goals.

Let's not forget the guy is turning 32 years old and his numbers are better this year because he is not carrying the load.....not even playing half the games.

To be fair, Dubnyk bounced around until goalie whisperer Sean Burke fixed him. He admitted that his game wasn't well after birth of his kids or something and he owned up to it.

So unless we punt Schwartz, and it doesn't look like we ever will, it's up to Skinner to realize his game has warts. But this is a goalie who seemingly will let in 3 goals within the first 10 shots and then post game say he played well. Maybe this is why the team shields him from the media lately.

 

[CanadasTeam99]

To be fair, Dubnyk bounced around until goalie whisperer Sean Burke fixed him. He admitted that his game wasn't well after birth of his kids or something and he owned up to it.

So unless we punt Schwartz, and it doesn't look like we ever will, it's up to Skinner to realize his game has warts. But this is a goalie who seemingly will let in 3 goals within the first 10 shots and then post game say he played well. Maybe this is why the team shields him from the media lately.

Didn't Dubnyk go to MTL, NSH, them Minny? I remember he admitted tha the was stubborn and didn't always trust the goaltending coaches.

 

[Soundwave]

The last two years he couldnt even hit .900 save percentage. People think that is because he is on bad team. That is not always how it works. The more peppered you are with shots from everywhere can even work for your favour for save %, not GAA but save % because if you get peppered with 50 shows you arent going to let in 10 goals.

Let's not forget the guy is turning 32 years old and his numbers are better this year because he is not carrying the load.....not even playing half the games. He has not demonstrated AT all that he can carry a the load of a starter in the last 5 years. this would be a bigger mistake than getting rid of Dubnyk and seeing him win the Vezina. Gibson is not an elite that will make a difference and has the real chance of blowing up in our face.

If Skinner is as good as you think he is, he should be able to get a fair share of starts so Gibson doesn't have to be gassed.

Unless you are scared that Gibson will just take over the starting spot and leave Stu in the dust when he has to deal with actual competition.

Age 31 is still young for a goalie. Dwayne Roloson was 36 when he came to Edmonton in spring 2006 and he played several more years here after that and even had another playoff run with Tampa even after that. Shesterkin, who's considered a "young franchise goalie" is only about two years younger than Gibson (1995 birthdate vs 1993).

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

If Skinner is as good as you think he is, he should be able to get a fair share of starts so Gibson doesn't have to be gassed.

Unless you are scared that Gibson will just take over the starting spot and leave Stu in the dust when he has to deal with actual competition.

Age 31 is still young for a goalie. Dwayne Roloson was 36 when he came to Edmonton in spring 2006 and he played several more years here after that and even had another playoff run with Tampa even after that. Shesterkin, who's considered a "young franchise goalie" is only about two years younger than Gibson (1995 birthdate vs 1993).

Gibson doesn't want to share the starts, so you're taking an enormous risk going with Gibson/Pickard.

 

[backhandsauce]

Any chance the Oilers look at Klim Shady for another tenure?

 

[Soundwave]

Any chance the Oilers look at Klim Shady for another tenure?

If the cost is cheap they should be IMO, even as a 13th/14th forward it would be not a bad option to have if a series starts to get more physical and Evander Kane can't handle that role and/or can't even play (assuming he's even here past the deadline).

Gibson doesn't want to share the starts, so you're taking an enormous risk going with Gibson/Pickard.

There's no contractual clause that says any goalie in the league is guaranteed shit with regards to playing time, once he's traded here (if that happens) we get to decide who gets to play what. There's a good chance he will take the starter spot fairly easily anyway, but still.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Any chance the Oilers look at Klim Shady for another tenure?

He would probably be a good fit, unfortunately I don't see it. We have a glut of forwards and if we add another one it should be someone more effective.

I'd love to add some big functional guys to the bottom 6, but with Kane coming back adding more than 1 forward will just upset the dressing room.

 

[foshizzle]

The last two years he couldnt even hit .900 save percentage. People think that is because he is on bad team. That is not always how it works. The more peppered you are with shots from everywhere can even work for your favour for save %, not GAA but save % because if you get peppered with 50 shows you arent going to let in 10 goals.

Let's not forget the guy is turning 32 years old and his numbers are better this year because he is not carrying the load.....not even playing half the games. He has not demonstrated AT all that he can carry a the load of a starter in the last 5 years. this would be a bigger mistake than getting rid of Dubnyk and seeing him win the Vezina. Gibson is not an elite that will make a difference and has the real chance of blowing up in our face.

To your first point- do you have evidence of this because there is tons of data to the contrary. Quality of shot matters.

Why do you keep bringing up Dubnyk? Is it because he is some who fits your argument? What are you basing that trading Skinner is a risk because he might turn into a Vezina winning goalie (he won't), but when Gibson gets moved, it'll blow up?

The issue with these types of arguments is that you aren't basing it on anything- just a bunch of what ifs. I got some for you- What if John Gibson comes here and wins the Conn Smyth? What if the Oilers trade Skinner, and he gets relegated to the A like Jack Campbell because now he is on a team where he is facing a ton of high danger chances and has to move side to side more (which he has terrible lateral movement).

 

[NeverForget06]

Any chance the Oilers look at Klim Shady for another tenure?

where would he play and who is he better than on our current roster?

 

[FiveFourteenSixOne]

He even said that would be foolish to think Gibsons sv% and GSAA would translate on the oilers. He’s straight up calling anyone with that viewpoint a fool. But he is literally doing the exact same thing with his cherry picked obscure stats.

In Gegors world the bad stats can be extrapolated to come up with damning conclusions. But good stats are unreliable. He’s either completely disingenuous or doesn’t realize he’s the fool.

Yep.

These are world class smooth brain takes.

"If you take a goalie with great stats, and put him on a team with better defense, his stats are going to get WORSE!" - Gregor and his ilk. These guys are f***ing idiots.