Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[foshizzle]

I understand what you mean man what’s with the anger? Also, you think it’s totally plausible to just fully rely on analytics? Especially when they are stating Troy Stecher is a top 4 Dman?

Lol- what anger? What are you even talking about.

You have decided this team is poor defensively and have stated numerous times it is. Then you go and overreact. The numbers show this is a top defensive team. I didn’t say fully rely on analytics- it’s a tool- but once again, you overreact. Troy Stetcher, in the role he is in, is delivering similar outcomes (along with Nurse) to that of recent cup winning teams 2nd pair. That, somehow, really upsets you. Would an upgrade be nice? Sure. Do the Oilers need to get every single player hitting the waiver wire, no (even though you get really upset when they don’t).

 

[K1984]

It's why my concern lay with Pickard, because those last 2 starts were....ooof.

Was listening to GYB this morning and couldn’t believe my ears. Praising Pickard without qualification. “Keeps doing what he needs to do for the team to win, keeps getting the job done, one of the best backups in the league, etc). This is all great when almost all of his opponents are terrible (believe he’s only played against two playoff teams this year), but if we end up with injury or underperformance from Skinner we are truly f***ed if he has to play any more than a one off against a real good team.

Gives me grey hair because you kind of just know that’s how the organization perceives him too.

 

[foshizzle]

Fair, but as stated he has to be on the roster a while and if Rodrigue is that good, you could risk waiving Pickard, because Rodrigue has probably passed him.

As we have learned, Oilers don’t like to have the best player put forward as much as they prefer the most liked player put forward. Pickard won’t be replaced this year- he is too nice

 

[Canovin]

I wonder if Gibson will finally update his NTC. He has a modified 10 team no trade clause and you have to think that he still has all of the Canadian teams on it. Not that I doubt the player but it's a big adjustment going from playing in sunny California the last 12 years to cold Alberta. Thats the first hurdle. If he actually wants a chance maybe Rico and Perry can convince him.

The second hurdle is the money. He's making 6.4M for the next 2 seasons. I would imagine that Anaheim, all things being equal would like to unload his contract. Dostal appears to be the starter, and they will need some of that money to pay him as a RFA this summer. I just don't see them willing to eat dead cap for the next 2 seasons unless a team is willing to give up enough assets to do so. I would imagine that they would try to waive him before anchoring themselves with dead cap.

The third hurdle is the acquisition cost. Are we willing to pay Anaheim a 1st round pick to eat 3.2M for the next 2 seasons? I'm not sure Gibson is worth that. I guess the only good news here is that Stan Bowman knows that he can in fact squeeze people. So, if Gibson does want out, he might be able to get them to eat some of this money just to get the conversation started. Maybe he can talk them down to Gibson at 50% for a 2nd round pick and a C prospect.

The fourth and final hurdle is next year. We don't have the cap space to have both Gibson (50%) and Skinner. We would need a 3rd team willing to eat money for 2 years, which can't be cheap. Probably another 2nd round pick. to eat 1.6M x 2 years.

I just see too many hurdles to make a deal like this work but maybe that's why Bowman hasn't done anything to this point yet.

I'm not sure it really takes a 1st for Anaheim to retain 3.2M for 2 years especially with Pickard going back. This isn't Holland. Even if we use St. Louis picks for Gibson I think it's well worth it. He's going to take the starting role in short time and also bring down the extension price of Stuart Skinner down by a significant margin.

Also Jeff Skinner and a sweetener for Zac Jones and Evander returning would round out our lineup really nicely.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Was listening to GYB this morning and couldn’t believe my ears. Praising Pickard without qualification. “Keeps doing what he needs to do for the team to win, keeps getting the job done, one of the best backups in the league, etc). This is all great when almost all of his opponents are terrible (believe he’s only played against two playoff teams this year), but if we end up with injury or underperformance from Skinner we are truly f***ed if he has to play any more than a one off against a real good team.

Gives me grey hair because you kind of just know that’s how the organization perceives him too.

I appreciate Rishaug as a reporter, but knowing things about hockey has never been his strong point.

The only reason the game against Seattle seemed "close" was because of 2 mistakes, one from Kapanen (fair, can't make that pass) and from Pickard (that rebound was beyond atrocious)

The Oilers played like trash against the Ducks in that loss, no question, but Pickard just looked awful, the first and the GWG were just awful.

As we have learned, Oilers don’t like to have the best player put forward as much as they prefer the most liked player put forward. Pickard won’t be replaced this year- he is too nice

It's fine to like Pickard because he's a great guy and still see reality.

 

[foshizzle]

It's why my concern lay with Pickard, because those last 2 starts were....ooof.

There’s a reason he has spent a chunk of his NHL career in the A

 

[Connor McConnor]

I wonder if Gibson will finally update his NTC. He has a modified 10 team no trade clause and you have to think that he still has all of the Canadian teams on it. Not that I doubt the player but it's a big adjustment going from playing in sunny California the last 12 years to cold Alberta. Thats the first hurdle. If he actually wants a chance maybe Rico and Perry can convince him.

The second hurdle is the money. He's making 6.4M for the next 2 seasons. I would imagine that Anaheim, all things being equal would like to unload his contract. Dostal appears to be the starter, and they will need some of that money to pay him as a RFA this summer. I just don't see them willing to eat dead cap for the next 2 seasons unless a team is willing to give up enough assets to do so. I would imagine that they would try to waive him before anchoring themselves with dead cap.

The third hurdle is the acquisition cost. Are we willing to pay Anaheim a 1st round pick to eat 3.2M for the next 2 seasons? I'm not sure Gibson is worth that. I guess the only good news here is that Stan Bowman knows that he can in fact squeeze people. So, if Gibson does want out, he might be able to get them to eat some of this money just to get the conversation started. Maybe he can talk them down to Gibson at 50% for a 2nd round pick and a C prospect.

The fourth and final hurdle is next year. We don't have the cap space to have both Gibson (50%) and Skinner. We would need a 3rd team willing to eat money for 2 years, which can't be cheap. Probably another 2nd round pick. to eat 1.6M x 2 years.

I just see too many hurdles to make a deal like this work but maybe that's why Bowman hasn't done anything to this point yet.

I don't see why Anaheim wouldn't be willing to eat dead cap for the next 2 years if they are getting assets back and shipping out a distressed asset. They could likely start a bit of a bidding war if they retained 50%. Also, as previously posted, there are a ton of teams that will need to take on contracts in order to meet the cap floor, I don't see finding a 3rd team being that big of a hurdle. Yes, it does mean shipping out more future assets which is a risky game, but we've seen plenty of Cup contenders do this and they don't look the worse for ware (Tampa and Vegas immediately come to mind).

 

[Canovin]

If the team next year is

Hyman (5.5) McDavid (12.5) Arvidsson (4)
RNH (5.25) Draisaitl (14) Podkolzin (1)
Kapanen (1.5) Henrique (3) Savoie (1)
Janmark (1.4) Philp (1) Brown (2)

Ekholm (6) Bouchard (8.5)
Nurse (9.25) D Person (4)
Kulak (2.7) Emberson (1.5)
blank (1)

Gibson (3.2)
Skinner (2.6)

Campbell Buyout (2.3)

= 92.2 mill

It probably works. Honestly think we should be looking to dump Henrique too, he is overpaid for what he brings.

Why would Gibson waive his NTC to Edmonton if we are going to flip his buddy Rico to elsewhere?

 

[FlameChampion]

Was listening to GYB this morning and couldn’t believe my ears. Praising Pickard without qualification. “Keeps doing what he needs to do for the team to win, keeps getting the job done, one of the best backups in the league, etc). This is all great when almost all of his opponents are terrible (believe he’s only played against two playoff teams this year), but if we end up with injury or underperformance from Skinner we are truly f***ed if he has to play any more than a one off against a real good team.

Gives me grey hair because you kind of just know that’s how the organization perceives him too.

Makes me wonder if there is a mandate from Management for reporters/local media to not criticize the goaltending.

The goaltending should at least being discussed. Whether they can actually do much to solve it I don’t know.

But not only does the goaltending not get criticized, its often being praised.

I don’t think either Skinner or Pickard have had great seasons. Pretty average. But goaltending is pretty average across the league. But most top 10 defensive teams get better goaltending than we do. Feels like the other teams goaltending is better than ours 75% of the time.

 

[Oilhawks]

Was listening to GYB this morning and couldn’t believe my ears. Praising Pickard without qualification. “Keeps doing what he needs to do for the team to win, keeps getting the job done, one of the best backups in the league, etc). This is all great when almost all of his opponents are terrible (believe he’s only played against two playoff teams this year), but if we end up with injury or underperformance from Skinner we are truly f***ed if he has to play any more than a one off against a real good team.

Gives me grey hair because you kind of just know that’s how the organization perceives him too.

I know you’re more of a fan than Skinner than I am, but it frustrates me that they carry so much water for goaltending for this org in general. The amount of defending of Schwartz by sports media in Edmonton is also very alarming. Either stupid or unable to speak their true thoughts on the goaltending, the biggest weakness on this team

 

[K1984]

I appreciate Rishaug as a reporter, but knowing things about hockey has never been his strong point.

The only reason the game against Seattle seemed "close" was because of 2 mistakes, one from Kapanen (fair, can't make that pass) and from Pickard (that rebound was beyond atrocious)

The Oilers played like trash against the Ducks in that loss, no question, but Pickard just looked awful, the first and the GWG were just awful.


It's fine to like Pickard because he's a great guy and still see reality.

Believe it or not Strudwick and Brown were the ones cheerleading, Rishaug wasn't on this one.

 

[Soundwave]

You're missing Evander Kane.

Yeah he's not gonna be here next year.

 

[Stauf4Prez]

Skinner has been rounding into form. I still don't trust him come playoffs to be good/consistent enough to win a cup, but give credit where credit is due. He is now 32nd out of 57 goalies with 600 minutes played min for goals saved above average/60 at natural stat trick, so basically exactly league average. If you account for only games since November 1st (with 300 mins played) he is 19th of 64 goalies. He has been much better lately, still not "great", but firmly in the "good" category since November 1st I would argue.

Skinner "rounds into form" three or four times a year, then falls apart, then re-rounds himself into form again. We have seen this song and dance over and over, and come playoffs, he simply cannot do that again this year.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Lol- what anger? What are you even talking about.

You have decided this team is poor defensively and have stated numerous times it is. Then you go and overreact. The numbers show this is a top defensive team. I didn’t say fully rely on analytics- it’s a tool- but once again, you overreact. Troy Stetcher, in the role he is in, is delivering similar outcomes (along with Nurse) to that of recent cup winning teams 2nd pair. That, somehow, really upsets you. Would an upgrade be nice? Sure. Do the Oilers need to get every single player hitting the waiver wire, no (even though you get really upset when they don’t).

I get it man but how do you not want to upgrade this defence when one of our regulars is Troy Stecher? Do you honestly think this defence is Cup Calibre?

 

[K1984]

I know you’re more of a fan than Skinner than I am, but it frustrates me that they carry so much water for goaltending for this org in general. The amount of defending of Schwartz by sports media in Edmonton is also very alarming. Either stupid or unable to speak their true thoughts on the goaltending, the biggest weakness on this team

I'm really not a big fan of Skinner either. I've just accepted the fact that save for something totally unforeseen happening he's going to be the guy and I feel like a lot of the criticism has been way over the top, especially lately when he's done pretty much what we've always wanted him to do (consistently save over .900; get wins). I'll be the first to jump back on him if/when he plays poorly again, however.

I do agree though that there is a bizarre level of cheerleading from the local media about both of them. When Skinner was still terrible going into early November Gregor was still screaming "HE'S ONLY HAD ONE BAD GAME!" which was objectively nonsense. Without looking at any numbers, I would bet that Pickard would actually likely be near the top in terms of backup win and SV %. However, it doesn't take a ton of time looking at his results in context to see why that might be.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I appreciate Rishaug as a reporter, but knowing things about hockey has never been his strong point.

The only reason the game against Seattle seemed "close" was because of 2 mistakes, one from Kapanen (fair, can't make that pass) and from Pickard (that rebound was beyond atrocious)

The Oilers played like trash against the Ducks in that loss, no question, but Pickard just looked awful, the first and the GWG were just awful.


It's fine to like Pickard because he's a great guy and still see reality.

I agree with you. Rishaug is a nice guy honestly. Met him in person. But... his analysis of hockey is terrible. He was so upset and angry when we traded Barrie for Ekholm. He had thought we'd lost the trade. He didn't know anything about Ekh yet he was making conclusions on him lol. The first 3 games of Ekholm in Edmonton made him change his mind

 

[K1984]

I agree with you. Rishaug is a nice guy honestly. Met him in person. But... his analysis of hockey is terrible. He was so upset and angry when we traded Barrie for Ekholm. He had thought we'd lost the trade. He didn't know anything about Ekh yet he was making conclusions on him lol. The first 3 games of Ekholm in Edmonton made him change his mind

Lol good memories.

The panic that our power play was going to fall apart because we went from Barrie -> Bouchard was laughable.

 

[VeteranPresence]

It's why my concern lay with Pickard, because those last 2 starts were....ooof.

We shouldn't have any loyalty to Pickard but yet here we are. Rodrigue continues to hum along in the A, so give him a look before spending assets on another goalie. But even if we go that route all of the following vets are or will probably be in play right away:

-Gibson
-Quick
-Talbot
-Lyon
-Forsberg

Then you have guys who may be put on the block given the situation they're in, like:

-UPL (bad team with Levi waiting in the wings)
-Vejmelka (UFA)
-Thompson/Lindgren (both are UFA so likely only one returns)
-Saros (who the f knows with Trotz)
-Varlamov (stuck as a backup on a non-playoff team for the rest of his career unless he asks out)
-Korpisalo (backup behind an $8M goalie + Bruins have two promising AHL goalies)

Plus younger/unproven names with promising arrows who might be available:

-Blomqvist
-Soderblom
-Annunen
-Silovs
-Ingram
-Hofer

Point is, there's no shortage of goalies out there that bring some combo of better stats, better underlying metrics, and/or better pedigree than Pickard (and also Skinner but let's not go there). Bowman and JJ choosing not to do anything is exactly that, while the rest of the league and world knows exactly what our biggest weakness is and how to exploit it.

 

[Zerotonine]

What's the cap suppose to be next year shy ways??,

95 million? (Estimated)

 

[FlameChampion]

I have probably covered the team less than previous years but it kind of feels like we don’t really get any information or media availability from Jackson or Bowman. Kind of feels less than Holland. I’d really like to know what their thinking is to improve this team.

I kinda just get the feeling they are going to trade for a 4/5 D and call it a day. I expect a lack luster deadline.

I still don’t trust the goaltending. The middle 6 forwards have been disappointing. And I still don’t trust Nurse to keep his level of play up in the playoffs (I think he needs someone better than a 4/5).

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I get it man but how do you not want to upgrade this defence when one of our regulars is Troy Stecher? Do you honestly think this defence is Cup Calibre?

Certainly playing like it.

 

[Missing smitty]

Do you trust 5’10 Stecher playing a regular role in the playoffs?

All insider chatters and rumors has us targeting a Defenceman. I don’t think it’s necessarily to better our defence, we do that well as a team and a system. The chatter has seemed to point to a puck moving defenceman with some offence to his game. Bob name dropped a Mike Matheson in that regard. So probably the thinking is that our offense can take an uptick with a better offensive defenceman in the 2nd pair. And offense is definately an area that can be improved on this team, a team with McDrai is only sitting around 10th for GF. We are losing our ability to outscore our problems which we’ve had in years passed.

I trust him more than a tandem of Skinner and Pickard.

They cannot head into the playoffs with both of them as their goalies.

Whether it's an upgrade on Skinner or a better backup to push him more, they can't just stand pat in net.

Certainly playing like it.

There are people on here who think 3 high danger chances per game is AHL level defending.

I think they need more depth on D, because injuries happen, though. Pretty sure some people forget just how much Roli changed the team in '06 and think bare minimum goaltending is good enough.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

IMO we need an upgrade on Stetcher to round out the D. Stetcher would be a damn solid #7 and you need depth to win in this league. That said we also need a goaltending upgrade. No doubt about it.

 

[TheNumber4]

I trust him more than a tandem of Skinner and Pickard.

They cannot head into the playoffs with both of them as their goalies.

Whether it's an upgrade on Skinner or a better backup to push him more, they can't just stand pat in net.


There are people on here who think 3 high danger chances per game is AHL level defending.

I think they need more depth on D, because injuries happen, though. Pretty sure some people forget just how much Roli changed the team in '06 and think bare minimum goaltending is good enough.

They headed into the playoffs last year with that tandem and we’re 1 goal/save away from winning it all. Maybe someone forgot Roli’s run, you seem to have forgot our run just last year.

 

[McHelpus]

I don't really understand the need for a defenseman. Are they supposed to go up from being one of the top defensive teams in the league?

Look at the depth chart, one injury on the right side and they have Josh Brown playing lol. Might as well waive the white flag.