Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Where's The Beef?

[Soundwave]

Good goaltending like we got in the third and fourth rounds of the playoffs last year?

A guy like you though, I can’t tell you prefer your goalies to play better in the regular season rather then the conference and Stanley cup finals.

We didn't get good goaltending in the first 3 games of the Cup Final and that gave Florida basically an insurmountable cheat code to the Cup.

Skinner's had like one legitimately great playoff round out of the 6 or so he's played in (Dallas), which isn't great.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

We didn't get good goaltending in the first 3 games of the Cup Final and that gave Florida basically an insurmountable cheat code to the Cup.

Skinner's had like one legitimately great playoff round out of the 6 or so he's played in (Dallas), which isn't great.

Skinner had better numbers that series then the other teams goalie.

The reason the Oilers lost that series wasn’t goaltending, it was because their offense only showed up in 3 of 7 games.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Good goaltending like we got in the third and fourth rounds of the playoffs last year?

A guy like you though, I can’t tell you prefer your goalies to play better in the regular season rather than the conference and Stanley cup finals.

Skinner has historically bad playoff numbers though. Being good 2 out of 6 playoff series isn’t great.

Like I said we will revisit this come playoffs. Happy to be wrong.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

f*** Blackwood, that ship has sailed (I wanted him fwiw). Who are realistic possible targets? IMO we need to at least have a Skinner level guy but more on the athletic side to give other team's different looks if Stu shits the bed.

 

[Soundwave]

Skinner had better numbers that series then the other teams goalie.

The reason the Oilers lost that series wasn’t goaltending, it was because their offense only showed up in 3 of 7 games.

It's not our offense didn't show up, Bob shut the door for most of those games whereas Skinner was crap to start the series putting us into a virtually insurmountable 0-3 hole. Florida is simply too good of a team for anyone to beat 4 times straight.

f*** Blackwood, that ship has sailed (I wanted him fwiw). Who are realistic possible targets? IMO we need to at least have a Skinner level guy but more on the athletic side to give other team's different looks if Stu shits the bed.

Gibson @50%

Cam Talbot

Vejmelka

Blomqvist

Would all be OK tandem options.

There's plenty of decent options, people need to stop acting like this has to be rocket science, it's not.

We sat on our ass and watched Blackwood and Askarov go.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

f*** Blackwood, that ship has sailed (I wanted him fwiw). Who are realistic possible targets? IMO we need to at least have a Skinner level guy but more on the athletic side to give other team's different looks if Stu shits the bed.

I think we’re at the point where we have to just roll the dice with Skinner. Hope he plays like the Dallas series more.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

f*** Blackwood, that ship has sailed (I wanted him fwiw). Who are realistic possible targets? IMO we need to at least have a Skinner level guy but more on the athletic side to give other team's different looks if Stu shits the bed.

There really isn't one. Maybe Lyon in Detroit.

 

[Soundwave]

There really isn't one. Maybe Lyon in Detroit.

There are way more options than Lyon.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I think we’re at the point where we have to just roll the dice with Skinner. Hope he plays like the Dallas series more.

That's a bad idea IMO. We need insurance in case Stu inevitably shits the bed again.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It's not our offense didn't show up, Bob shut the door for most of those games whereas Skinner was crap to start the series putting us into a virtually insurmountable 0-3 hole. Florida is simply too good of a team for anyone to beat 4 times straight.



Gibson @50%

Cam Talbot

Vejmelka

Blomqvist

Would all be OK tandem options.

There's plenty of decent options, people need to stop acting like this has to be rocket science, it's not.

We sat on our ass and watched Blackwood and Askarov go.

Gibson IMO is a bit of a risk but with the cap going up a ton it might make some sense. Talbot wouldn't be too bad IF him and his family are fine with a return to chase a cup. Vejmelka would likely cost a lot and maybe Utah wants to sign him? What's Blomqvist's contract status? Would Jonathan Quick make sense?

 

[TB12]

That's a bad idea IMO. We need insurance in case Stu inevitably shits the bed again.

*when

Unfortunately we all know it will happen. He can't be relied upon for a full 2.5 month playoff grind. That's just facts. We need a guy that can go when he turns into a pumpkin.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Skinner has historically bad playoff numbers though. Being good 2 out of 6 playoff series isn’t great.

Like I said we will revisit this come playoffs. Happy to be wrong.

I don’t think Skinner is a good goalie for the record, but 80% of the goalies in the league are in the same boat. They all struggle with inconsistency save for a few select goalies in the league who are elite. You’re basically just picking from a bunch of meh and hoping they don’t fall apart at the wrong time and to be honest with Schwartz as goalie coach, I really don’t think it matters which mid option you go with, the result is going to be the same as it always has been.

My opinion has always been that if they want to get solid goaltending they need to replace Schwartz with a goaltending coach who’s shown an ability to find and improve goaltenders. They really should do whatever they have to in order to get Ian Clark out of Vancouver even if it means trading assets for him if that’s a possibility. Trading a pick for a guy who has a track record of improving the performance of pretty much every goalie he’s worked with, would be far more impactful then trading assets for another mid goalie that’s just a lottery ticket you’re hoping has a better chance then the lottery ticket you already have in your pocket.

If I was trading for a goalie I’d definitely see if Nashville would sell Saros before his new deal and nmc kicks in, he’s a guy who’s shown he can be elite and at the least, above average pretty consistently. If I had a gun to my head and had to pick one of the mid goalie options, I’d probably go with Vejmelka, he’s had some good stretches of consistent play on a poor team over the last few years, the Czechs have put together a decent goaltending program and I like that he’s a right hand glove which is quite rare and can throw shooters. End of the day though he’s still a question mark and probably looking for a Blackwood type deal in the summer.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

That's a bad idea IMO. We need insurance in case Stu inevitably shits the bed again.

Yep it sucks. I got a bad feeling about it.

 

[Mr Positive]

What a strange bunch of fans we have. That blackwood deal is horrible at 5.25M. It might even cost them Rantanen. Do you not remember when Georgiev went on a heater only to fall back to earth?

Why are we bitching about Skinner at 2.6M?

We could have traded for him and not extended him at that. At the very least wait and let him earn his deal

It doesn't have to be him either.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Some other names to look at:
Utah-Jaxson Stauber
Chicago-Arvid Soderblom and Petr Mrazek
St. Louis-Joel Hofer
Montreal-Sam Montembault

 

[Mr Positive]

In case people forget, Mackenzie Blackwood is the reason a very good team in NJ traded for a carousel of goalies before finally going out and spending big to get Markstrom. The book on Blackwood has always been he’s athletically gifted but doesn’t have the mental for the goaltending position. The result has been him being the picture of inconsistency, which is why paying him that deal on a dozen good games on a non pressure bottom feeder and 5 good games in a new sweater is laughable.

At some point his confidence will get shook and he’ll fall apart back there like he consistently has throughout his career. It’s not the first time he’s had a great stretch only to see it unravel and end up being unplayable.

Blackwood's time in NJ was a bit more complicated. He put up some good numbers in Jersey but his body of work was limited. They got Markstrom because he was available, and that whole time the Devils were in chaos due to injuries.

If you look at Blackwood's raw demonstrated ability, he's very close to where Ullmark was when Boston got him. Iirc same injury question mark too

It's way to early to assume that the rest of his career will mirror Ullmark, but I guess the Avs are convinced enough to take this gamble now and save millions in AAV later

 

[soothsayer]

Blackwood's time in NJ was a bit more complicated. He put up some good numbers in Jersey but his body of work was limited. They got Markstrom because he was available, and that whole time the Devils were in chaos due to injuries.

If you look at Blackwood's raw demonstrated ability, he's very close to where Ullmark was when Boston got him. Iirc same injury question mark too

It's way to early to assume that the rest of his career will mirror Ullmark, but I guess the Avs are convinced enough to take this gamble now and save millions in AAV later

And this just doesn't make sense. I suppose that may be their thinking, but it seems like flawed reasoning to me. Even if Blackwood were to receive Vezina nominations, would his contract really look much different than what Colorado gave him? Not only that, but did they really think they needed to give him a starter's term and money to keep him from being scooped up before free agency?

Colorado is taking a big unnecessary risk with that contract. The whole thing seems absurd.

 

[Mr Positive]

There are way more options than Lyon.

I agree. There are more options than Lyon, even just from the Redwings lol

There are lots of great goalies to try. If we don't get one, that's okay I guess, but it is clearly a choice. We do not have to roll with Skinner-Pickard. Management seems to want these two. If it works, great. If it doesn't, I won't be surprised.

And this just doesn't make sense. I suppose that may be their thinking, but it seems like flawed reasoning to me. Even if Blackwood were to receive Vezina nominations, would his contract really look much different than what Colorado gave him? Not only that, but did they really think they needed to give him a starter's term and money to keep him from being scooped up before free agency?

Colorado is taking a big unnecessary risk with that contract. The whole thing seems absurd.

Ullmark just got 8+AAV. Colorado seems to think he will be that good. I really like Blackwood but to me for such an important decision they should have waited longer for him to prove himself, even if they had to pay a bit more. It really feels like the Campbell deal

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Blackwood's time in NJ was a bit more complicated. He put up some good numbers in Jersey but his body of work was limited. They got Markstrom because he was available, and that whole time the Devils were in chaos due to injuries.

If you look at Blackwood's raw demonstrated ability, he's very close to where Ullmark was when Boston got him. Iirc same injury question mark too

It's way to early to assume that the rest of his career will mirror Ullmark, but I guess the Avs are convinced enough to take this gamble now and save millions in AAV later

They got Markstrom a year after they cut bait on Blackwood, which they did after he was outperformed by a carousel of goalies.

It’s a foolish and unnecessary risk giving him that deal now, to suggest his AAV is going to increase by millions is saying that you place him in the same tier as saros/Hellebyuck/Sorokin money range. He’s not in that tier of goaltender and it would be laughable to pay him as such.

They did the exact same thing with Georgiev, acquiring him and extending him shortly after and look how that turned out. The only difference is that Georgiev had a much better track record at the time.

 

[Mr Positive]

They got Markstrom a year after they cut bait on Blackwood, which they did after he was outperformed by a carousel of goalies.

It’s a foolish and unnecessary risk giving him that deal now, to suggest his AAV is going to increase by millions is saying that you place him in the same tier as saros/Hellebyuck/Sorokin money range. He’s not in that tier of goaltender and it would be laughable to pay him as such.

They did the exact same thing with Georgiev, acquiring him and extending him shortly after and look how that turned out. The only difference is that Georgiev had a much better track record at the time.

I definitely think the Geoegiev deal made more sense. The Avs must just really love Blackwood. I wonder if teams start to adjust. There is often a grace period where goalies do really well, before the book is written on them, and a new team and system can re set that. At some point Blackwood will be figured out. The great goalies can re adjust and win that battle over time. Blackwood has not proven that. Not by a long shot

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I definitely think the Geoegiev deal made more sense. The Avs must just really love Blackwood. I wonder if teams start to adjust. There is often a grace period where goalies do really well, before the book is written on them, and a new team and system can re set that. At some point Blackwood will be figured out. The great goalies can re adjust and win that battle over time. Blackwood has not proven that. Not by a long shot

I also expect Blackwood to get injured for a period of time as well

 

[CupofOil]

Colorado is one of the better managed clubs in the league. They will find a way.

Plus I think Blackwood is way better then you guys give him credit for. Colorado is probably again the team to beat with him in net imo.

Blackwood didn't have above a .902 save pct, since last decade before this season, it's way too premature to say that he's as good as people say he is.
He's a talented guy but he hadn't been a viable NHL goalie for like 4 seasons before this year. Jack Campbell, who was also a talented goalie that had mental issues handling the position like Blackwood, had better numbers before signing the big contract so it's quite a risk for a guy with a small track record of success. It's a reasonable gamble for the Avs but it could easily blow up in their face.

 

[CupofOil]

*when

Unfortunately we all know it will happen. He can't be relied upon for a full 2.5 month playoff grind. That's just facts. We need a guy that can go when he turns into a pumpkin.

But which goalies aren't up and down in a long playoff grind? There's very few that can give you consistently good goaltending every game against playoff teams. Look at Oettinger's game log last season, look at Helleybuck the last two playoffs. The playoffs, especially in this higher scoring era, are hard on goalies.

 

[soothsayer]

I agree. There are more options than Lyon, even just from the Redwings lol

There are lots of great goalies to try. If we don't get one, that's okay I guess, but it is clearly a choice. We do not have to roll with Skinner-Pickard. Management seems to want these two. If it works, great. If it doesn't, I won't be surprised.


Ullmark just got 8+AAV. Colorado seems to think he will be that good. I really like Blackwood but to me for such an important decision they should have waited longer for him to prove himself, even if they had to pay a bit more. It really feels like the Campbell deal

Blackwood's numbers aren't in the same stratosphere as Ullmark's, not to mention Ullmark won a Vezina trophy and a Jennings trophy. I can't imagine Colorado or Blackwood seriously used Ullmark's deal in their negotiations.

 

[Mr Positive]

Blackwood's numbers aren't in the same stratosphere as Ullmark's, not to mention Ullmark won a Vezina trophy and a Jennings trophy. I can't imagine Colorado or Blackwood seriously used Ullmark's deal in their negotiations.

I did say Ullmark before going to Boston. Putting up a great save percentage on a horrible team shows something. That's the method that got us Roloson

I doubt they brought up Ullmark in negotiations, but just remember that this year's 5 million is similar to what we were giving Koskinen, in cap percentage. The Avs wanted term, so they had to give an optimistic dollar amount, but its not a lot of cap.

If we traded for Blackwood, we could have waited for him to show great stats over time and given him a show me deal of maybe 3 million x1 or 2