Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | Vegas Claims Raph Lavoie off Waivers, Everyone Else Cleared

[Louis Cypher]

The Refs were targeting Desharnais in that LA series because he was a rookie who complained about a call. They called him every time he looked at anybody. That hampered his game, but hey, a rookie has to adjust and learn some things before they dial it in. After all, why didn’t McDavid simply win us a cup as a rookie?

I brought up the decade of darkness for one very clearly elucidated reason that you apparently overlooked, so let me run it back for you. You were here watching the Oilers get caved and post -200 seasons with terrible defence, so YOU, Mr. Sound wave, should have a pretty good idea of what incompetent defence looks like and just how difficult it is to find players that can play competent defence against elite opposition. You have seen that many, MANY NHL players CANNOT do that. That is the only relevance of the DoD. That reference was about YOU, but apparently you can’t countenance that. It has nothing to do with the present team, except to say that you should know that finding competent defenders to play elites is difficult. Based on what our roster looks like right now, Stan Bowman has failed to do that, because it’s hard (especially in a cap world). Get it?

Phew.

Theres a list of about 6 billion people who would have done a hell of a lot worse than Ceci or Desharnais on our right side, and it includes players currently on our roster.

Our D was barely good enough to give us a solid chance to win. It’s less good now.

Do you understand the problem yet? Or should I hold your hand for another explanation?

Pair the reality of our present roster situation with the paucity of available RD upgrades and our relative lack of prospect depth and picks for trade assets, and you cannot be certain that we will get the player that we need on RD to ice a top 4 that can compete for a cup. It wouldn’t even be that surprising if we do wind up circling back on Ceci if our Plan A fails. Which is sad, but at least it’d be a big upgrade on what we currently have.

Yeah I don't get how everyone thinks that with all this accrued cap space we can load up at the deadline. This isn't free agency. We need prospects and draft picks to aquire said load up players. Both of which we have little of. I'm also predicting we get Ceci back at the deadline.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yeah I don't get how everyone thinks that with all this accrued cap space we can load up at the deadline. This isn't free agency. We need prospects and draft picks to aquire said load up players. Both of which we have little of. I'm also predicting we get Ceci back at the deadline.

We’ve got plenty of top draft picks and a few prospects.

 

[Soundwave]

We’ve got plenty of top draft picks and a few prospects.

View attachment 913853

They could also likely do what they did just this past year and trade like a 2026 1st for a 2025 1st and then move that 2025 1st.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Lol, so lemme get this straight, Cody Ceci and Vinny Desharnais, a bottom pair D + an AHL career player at age 25 are the difference between being a decade of darkness/missing the playoffs/chicken with its head cut off emergency and a Cup finalist?

Anyone more hysterics we want to propose? Losing Brad Winchester was the key that caused the decade of darkness?

These arguements are dumb and deep down I think the people making them know they're dumb.

Ceci and Desharnais were crap in the 2023 playoffs and crap again in to start last season. Knoblaugh/Coffey is the main reason the entire D changed and they deserve 95% of the credit, because the same D was playing horrendous under Woodcroft for 15 or so games on top of terrible defense in the 2023 playoffs.

If we played Desharnais any more in that LA series in the 2023 playoffs, they would have beat us in round 1 that year, I've never seen one skater trying so hard to lose his own team a playoff series ever.

Our defence was JUST good enough for this team to do what it did. That defence is worse right now.
The coaching staff deserves those accolades and are still here. But you realize that as much as we hated Ceci he is better than any of Emberson, Stetcher, Brown, Dermott etc. and not a small amount.
You have a worse dcore you get worse results.
That said we have till the deadline to fix it.

 

[Soundwave]

Our defence was JUST good enough for this team to do what it did. That defence is worse right now.
The coaching staff deserves those accolades and are still here. But you realize that as much as we hated Ceci he is better than any of Emberson, Stetcher, Brown, Dermott etc. and not a small amount.
You have a worse dcore you get worse results.
That said we have till the deadline to fix it.

Again, I'm gonna call bullshit.

You guys really don't know what the f*** you have in a coach in Knoblaugh. He is the best coach this team has had maybe since Sather and y'all are stuck on freaking Cody Ceci, gimme a break.

Another set of facts, the Oilers were f***ing awful at defending in the 2022 and 2023 playoffs, they were the WORST goals against for any team past round 1 in both 2022 and 2023 at 3.68 GA in 2022 and down only modestly to a still very bad 3.5 GA in 2023.

What does Knoblaugh/Coffey do their first year out? They took that down all the way to 2.6 GA.

How good is 2.6 GA? Pretty damn good, it's lower than the 2022 Cup champs Colorado Avalanche and about dead even with the 2024 Cup champs the Florida Panthers. So basically on par if not a bit better than 2/3 last Cup champions.

And that's with Holland giving Knoblaugh f*** all to work with. No upgrade on Ceci, couldn't get anything done for the d-corps at the 2024 trade deadline, we settled for Henrique who wasn't even healthy for most of the playoffs, so basically dick all for help, no cavalry came whatsoever.

Knoblaugh/Coffey took that mediocre defensive core, which was one of the worst in the league on Nov. 12, 2023, the date of his hiring, and immediately turned them around into a top 6 D corps in the regular season and then one of the best D corps in the playoffs.

The COACHES are the reason for the dramatic change in these numbers, there was no roster addition, they took a D that was mediocre in 22-23 (17th overall in GA in the regular season) and made them into a top defensive unit, and that's DESPITE garbage like Ceci and Desharnais back there, not because of those guys because those guys weren't doing f*** all when the Oilers were floundering to start the season.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Again, I'm gonna call bullshit.

You guys really don't know what the f*** you have in a coach in Knoblaugh. He is the best coach this team has had maybe since Sather and y'all are stuck are freaking Cody Ceci, gimme a break.

Another set of facts, the Oilers were f***ing awful at defending in the 2022 and 2023 playoffs, they were the WORST goals against for any team past round 1 in both 2022 and 2023 at 3.68 GA in 2022 and down only modestly to a still very bad 3.5 GA in 2023.

What does Knoblaugh/Coffey do their first year out? They took that down all the way to 2.6 GA.

How good is 2.6 GA? Pretty damn good, it's lower than the 2022 Cup champs Colorado Avalanche and about dead even with the 2024 Cup champs the Florida Panthers.

And that's with Holland giving Knoblaugh f*** all to work with. No upgrade on Ceci, couldn't get anything done for the d-corps at the 2024 trade deadline, we settled for Henrique who wasn't even healthy for most of the playoffs, so basically dick all for help.

Knoblaugh/Coffey took that mediocre defensive core, which was one of the worst in the league on Nov. 12, 2023, the date of his hiring, and immediately turned them around into a top 6 D corps in the regular season and then one of the best D corps in the playoffs.

The COACHES are the reason for the dramatic change in these numbers, there was no roster addition, they took a D that was mediocre in 22-23 (17th overall in GA in the regular season) and made them into a top defensive unit, and that's DESPITE garbage like Ceci and Desharnais back there, not because of those guys because those guys weren't doing f*** all when the Oilers were floundering to start the season.

What are you even talking about at this point it has zero relation to what I said.
You give any coaching staff worse players and they will be able to do less with them.
There is no coaching staff that can do even better when you give them even worse.

I know that addition fixed the defence, the staff did, but we made that defence worse, that equals worse results silly pants.

 

[Soundwave]

What are you even talking about at this point it has zero relation to what I said.
You give any coaching staff worse players and they will be able to do less with them.
There is no coaching staff that can do even better when you give them even worse.

I know that addition fixed the defence, the staff did, but we made that defence worse, that equals worse results silly pants.

I am saying the massive improvement is because of the COACHING SYSTEM pretty much entirely, pieces like Ceci and Desharnais make f*** all for a difference, it's the SYSTEM that is responsible for the dramatic change.

The Oilers didn't even add any one to the d-corps last year, a d-corps that was frankly mediocre, again 17th best in GA in the 22-23 regular season, worst GA for any team in the playoffs past round 1 (which they barely got by LA).

This is the dictionary definition of a coach coming in and making all the difference in the world.

Knoblaugh should have won coach of the year last year and was the most valuable person in the organization (yes even above McDavid). He saved the Oilers season and finally got them to buy into a defensive system that won them 3 rounds and damn near 4 rounds.

No chance any of that happens without him/Coff/Stuart. They are the difference makers, not guys like Ceci and Desharnais who were sitting around with their thumbs up their ass when the team was what? 30th or 31st worst in the league for goals against? Where were the two of them then exactly? No one gave them the memo that they had to play D until the 11th game of the regular season?

We made game 7 of the Finals *despite* players like Ceci and Desharnais playing way over their heads, not *because* of said players. If anything that's a testament to the coaching job Knoblaugh/Coffey did last year, they took guys that had no business being there and still made a game 7 of a Cup Final anyway.

 

[alphahelix]

I'm just going to quote this too because I vehemently disagree and think this shows precisely that many people don't even probably watch the games to give credit where credit is properly due.

No the D was not "good before Knoblaugh".

In 22-23 season, the Oilers weren't even in the top 9 in Western Conference for GA, two teams that missed the playoffs in Calgary and Nashville actually had a better GA than the Oilers. Overall the Oilers finished 22-23, 17th overall in goals against, technically in the bottom half of the league, which is an embarrassment for a so-called "contender" and mediocre.

In the 2023 playoffs the Oilers had the highest GA/game of any team outside of the first round, again that's not good (they did in 2022 as well).

To start the 2023-24 season, before Woodcroft was finally fired, I believe the Oilers were like 31st in the league for GA, only San Jose was worse.

This is not "good defense".

Knoblaugh/Coffey/Stuart are the reasons the Oilers improved massively because our front office did f*** all to help, couldn't even upgrade on Cody Ceci, had to settle for a forward in Adam Henrique who was hurt most of the playoffs.

And still the team went from like 2nd last in the league in GA to 6th best for the rest of the season, in the playoffs they allowed fewer GA than the champion Florida Panthers. This is the dictionary definition of a coaching change completely overhauling the defensive play of a team. It sure as f*** wasn't because of roster changes because our geriatric GM did nothing all year long.

Under Tippett the Oilers were one of the worst teams in the NHL defensively, especially at preventing HDSCA and in xGF and many other metrics. Woodcroft took over and brought up Desharnais and it all improved substantially.

The next season, the Oilers were a top-five team in xGF% with a 53.59, which also included a run as the second best team in the league in both xGA and xGF% from January 1, 2023, to the end of the season—a top-five team in eliminating high-danger chances against.

The big improvement came under Woodcroft.

And, for the record, the guy’s name is Knoblauch.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I am saying the massive improvement is because of the COACHING SYSTEM pretty much entirely, pieces like Ceci and Desharnais make f*** all for a difference, it's the SYSTEM that is responsible for the dramatic change.

The Oilers didn't even add any one to the d-corps last year, a d-corps that was frankly mediocre, again 17th best in GA in the 22-23 regular season, worst GA for any team in the playoffs past round 1 (which they barely got by LA).

This is the dictionary definition of a coach coming in and making all the difference in the world.

Knoblaugh should have won coach of the year last year and was the most valuable person in the organization (yes even above McDavid). He saved the Oilers season and finally got them to buy into a defensive system that won them 3 rounds and damn near 4 rounds.

No chance any of that happens without him/Coff/Stuart. They are the difference makers, not guys like Ceci and Desharnais who were sitting around with their thumbs up their ass when the team was what? 30th or 31st worst in the league for goals against? Where were the two of them then exactly? No one gave them the memo that they had to play D until the 11th game of the regular season?

Holy shit this unhinged rant.
I’m not arguing with you that the coaching staff and systems are why it was good.
I’m literally saying you take worse players and put them in the same system you get worse results.
If that’s not true then by that logic replace Ekholm and Bouchard with Dermott and Brown and should have same results right? Ceci is a #5d, Desharnais is a #6. We replaced them with 4 7/8 d.
I’m not saying it’s dire or end of the world but you can’t get better or the same results with WORSE PLAYERS.
If that’s the case then trade Bouchard, Ekholm and Nurse for spare parts and run waiver wire guys for defence.

 

[Soundwave]

Holy shit this unhinged rant.
I’m not arguing with you that the coaching staff and systems are why it was good.
I’m literally saying you take worse players and put them in the same system you get worse results.
If that’s not true then by that logic replace Ekholm and Bouchard with Dermott and Brown and should have same results right? Ceci is a #5d, Desharnais is a #6. We replaced them with 4 7/8 d.

I don't agree with the premise because the quality of players is not the reason the system is good to begin with.

On paper, a team with Cody Ceci in the top 4 and Desharnais in the top 6 shouldn't make a Cup Final period.

It's the system, the Cecis and Desharnais' of the world are just interchangable grunts, the system is what makes it work you can plug and play different bottom pairing defencemen, which is what Ceci and Desharnais actually are.

It's not "well gee shucks I guess the coaches did their part too, they were pretty good". No, they ARE the f***ing D. They are the system.

And that's fine, there's lots of teams like that, Florida has a mediocre D corps and won a Cup and will be very good this year too because Maurice will just take some grunt D and make the bottom 4 of their D good enough, Pittsburgh won a Cup with Justin Schultz as basically a top 2-3 D and no Letang.

Daryl Sutter did it with the Flames in 2004 and again in 2022 (massive overperformance based on a coaching system rather than the individual talent of the actual D corps, Erik Gudbranson magically overnight got himself a 4 million dollar extension because of it, lol).

 

[CycloneSweep]

I don't agree with the premise because the quality of players is not the reason the system is good to begin with.

On paper, a team with Cody Ceci in the top 4 and Desharnais in the top 6 shouldn't make a Cup Final period.

It's the system, the Cecis and Desharnais' of the world are just interchangable grunts, the system is what makes it work you can plug and play different bottom pairing defencemen, which is what Ceci and Desharnais actually are.

It's not "well gee shucks I guess the coaches did their part too, they were pretty good". No, they ARE the f***ing D. They are the system.

And that's fine, there's lots of teams like that, Florida has a mediocre D corps and won a Cup and will be very good this year too because Maurice will just take some grunt D and make the bottom 4 of their D good enough, Pittsburgh won a Cup with Justin Schultz as basically a top 2-3 D and no Letang.

Daryl Sutter did it with the Flames in 2004 and again in 2022 (massive overperformance based on a coaching system rather than the individual talent of the actual D corps, Erik Gudbranson magically overnight got himself a 4 million dollar extension because of it, lol).

So we should trade Bouchard for a pick and replace him with Brown. Got it.

 

[Soundwave]

Vancouver is another one, everyone wants to lap up Tocchet's nuts when their same D corps had been floundering for like 4 seasons.

Sutter did the same in Calgary in 2022 got massive improvement, then because he's not nice the team wanted to tune him out but even then they had a lower GA in 2023 than the Oilers.

The Oilers fluking out in Knoblaugh was simply Western Conference fortune landing on them for a change. Calgary and Vancouver got their miracle defensive coaches, well Edmonton was due one too.

So we should trade Bouchard for a pick and replace him with Brown. Got it.

Here's a reality check ... most teams, even good teams only really have one great pairing (their top pairing).

The other 4 pieces are generally a mishmash of not that many great pieces.

This magical team with like a star studded top 6 doesn't exist.

In a cap world you must have a coaching system that can get over-performance and no bullshit structure into your D. You can't teach offensive talent, but you can teach defensive structure, it happens all the time, you just need some luck in getting a great coach.

The Oilers probably fluked out on Nov. 12 by landing Knoblaugh/Coffey/Stuart.

 

[oilers4life5]

It seems like everything pisses you off.

Just all the stupid moves by management that any average Joe could have done better.

 

[Soundwave]

Just all the stupid moves by management that any average Joe could have done better.

It's mainly the Brown bonus that screwed us but that's Holland's fault. It probably cost us both Broberg and Holloway, could've locked both in at 1.8 and 1.5 or so in June instead of waiting so long trying to get them in at about 1 mill each and ending up risking an offer sheet.

But I was very vocal at the time about that signing and the bonus structure being terrible when a lot of people didn't think it was a big deal. Welp.

 

[harpoon]

Holland should've basically packed his shit after the Ekholm trade. Grandpa was toast after that.

Knoblaugh basically came in and saved everything and that was clearly a hire above Holland's head and then Holland couldn't even find an upgrade on Ceci at the deadline, so he was good for about f*** all by that point.

Knob/Coff still churned and turned that shit into a damn gourmet meal anyway and damn near won the Cup anyway with zero help to the back end and not even a big time bounce back kind of playoffs from Stuart Skinner either.

Well at least this string of ‘praise Knoblaugh’ posts is better than the many posts you made calling Sutter the only man who could bring this team to its potential. I’d be super interested if you could put together a series of posts breaking down what you see as the similarities in their coaching philosophies.

 

[Soundwave]

Well at least this string of ‘praise Knoblaugh’ posts is better than the many posts you made calling Sutter the only man who could bring this team to its potential. I’d be super interested if you could put together a series of posts breaking down what you see as the similarities in their coaching philosophies.

They are similar in result, Sutter is obviously a very different personality who is much harder probably for this generation of player to tolerate.

But I still stand by that 100% ... the Oilers 100% needed a coach that could instill defensive structure and not back down from it.

Finding some random dude with 0 NHL experience who could instill that basically in 1 season is a miracle. What else would you call it?

I don't think many Oiler fans even properly appreciate what happened there. Aside from that golden ticket coming out of that envelope in 2015, the Knoblaugh/Coffey hires may be the best thing to happen to the franchise since then and I'm not even close to joking about that.

I don't even know how Knoblaugh/Coffey did what they did, it's a borderline miracle because Holland did nothing to help them. Couldn't even add one f***ing lousy D the entire year sat on his ass paralyzed like an idiot after losing to Vegas.

Anyone who thinks that turn around is because of Ceci and Desharnais (two bottom pairing D) is an idiot frankly. What the hell do you think you witnessed last year? Go back and watch it again because you missed a masterclass in coaching.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

With the renewal of the regular season comes a new cyclone of stupid.

 

[Soundwave]

Under Tippett the Oilers were one of the worst teams in the NHL defensively, especially at preventing HDSCA and in xGF and many other metrics. Woodcroft took over and brought up Desharnais and it all improved substantially.

The next season, the Oilers were a top-five team in xGF% with a 53.59, which also included a run as the second best team in the league in both xGA and xGF% from January 1, 2023, to the end of the season—a top-five team in eliminating high-danger chances against.

The big improvement came under Woodcroft.

And, for the record, the guy’s name is Knoblauch.

They had a new coach bump defensively with Woodcroft initially, but that's all it was. Even that was starting to wear off as the regular season went on.

By the 2022 playoffs he was proven a defensive fraud and there was no real improvement in the Oilers defensive game as they allowed a gross 3.68 goals in the 2022 playoffs, basically they made the Conference Final playing full blown fire wagon hockey. I'll give him credit for beating Calgary but still this was not a system built to take the Oilers where they actually wanted to go.

In 22-23, Woodcroft's full season behind the bench for the Oilers, the Oilers were a mediocre 17th best in the league for GA, 10th best in the Western Conference (so not even in the top 8 in their own conference) ... that is horrendous for a team trying to say they are a contender.

And sure enough the D got exposed in the playoffs, allowing 3.5 GA, once again for the second year in a row the highest GA for any team past round 1 in the playoffs.

This was no where good enough.

Knob/Coffey/Stuart are the biggest thing to happen to the Oilers since they won the McDavid lottery and you sure as f*** wouldn't know it reading these boards. Cody Ceci and Desharnais my ass, lol.

Top level coaches really only need a great top pair, maybe a good no.3, they can make 4/5/6 work with interchangeable pieces in their systems play because the system is the star defensively, it's not any player really. Sutter did it, Maurice does it in Florida, Oilers look like they lucked out with their coaching staff.

Defensive structure particularly for role players can be taught, if the system is especially good. The thing you can't teach at the NHL level is offensive talent. You either have that or you don't.

 

[Louis Cypher]

We’ve got plenty of top draft picks and a few prospects.

View attachment 913853

Sorry I am surprised, thanks for pointing that out. We can't draft/devlop worth shit so we might as well trade them.

 

[Davo Ikinzom]

With the renewal of the regular season comes a new cyclone of stupid.

I can hear the wave of cyclones a brewing.. the whispering winds of shit.

 

[Oilhawks]

Sorry I am surprised, thanks for pointing that out. We can't draft/devlop worth shit so we might as well trade them.

Yeah, definitely shouldn't bother giving the new amateur drafting department a chance to draft any good players

 

[McFlyingV]

Looking forward to the Nurse-Emberson pairing looking way better than the Nurse-Ceci pairing. Ceci is a puck retrieval and controlled breakout black hole. Ceci leads to extended D zone time, and Darnell Nurse struggles with extended D zone defending.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Looking forward to the Nurse-Emberson pairing looking way better than the Nurse-Ceci pairing. Ceci is a puck retrieval and controlled breakout black hole. Ceci leads to extended D zone time, and Darnell Nurse struggles with extended D zone defending.

Early on Emberson looks to be a better passer and better skater than Ceci. Ceci had more size and maybe a better shot (when it hit the net).

 

[Soundwave]

Looking forward to the Nurse-Emberson pairing looking way better than the Nurse-Ceci pairing. Ceci is a puck retrieval and controlled breakout black hole. Ceci leads to extended D zone time, and Darnell Nurse struggles with extended D zone defending.

I don't even see why it's a big thing, Nurse previously basically got a rookie Ethan Bear put on his pair, and Bear was what? A 5th round pick who was undersized?

Emberson is at least a pretty big guy and has actual NHL experience already too and was drafted far higher than Ethan Bear.

Nurse Ceci was a disaster pairing every time, even Knob-Coffey could not make it work, it's for the best that it can't be tried again, they just bring out the worst in each other.

 

[McFlyingV]

I don't even see why it's a big thing, Nurse previously basically got a rookie Ethan Bear put on his pair, and Bear was what? A 5th round pick who was undersized?

Emberson is at least a pretty big guy and has actual NHL experience already too and was drafted far higher than Ethan Bear.

Nurse Ceci was a disaster pairing every time, even Knob-Coffey could not make it work, it's for the best that it can't be tried again, they just bring out the worst in each other.

Yeah it was a terribly designed pairing. No puck mover, no cerebral D-zone defender, slow on one side, rover on the other side. There was just zero way for this pairing to succeed in any way. Neither player covered for the other's shortcomings.

There's a reason why this pairing had terrible retrieval and controlled zone exit metrics. Ceci is a horrific puck retriever. Nurse is a good puck retriever. Ceci is a terrible puck mover. Nurse is also a terrible puck mover. Their only viable option on a breakout was Nurse skating it out, and if teams constantly pressured his side to limit that aspect of his game he had a tire fire escape option in Ceci.