Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Oilers Biggest Roster Need Is?

[K1984]

I wondered in the past if this was systems related. It seems certain teams like the Knights have it ingrained to just shoot when the chance is “good enough”. Instead we are always looking for a perfect play, which in the hands of McDrai is fine, let them do what they do best. But as a general systems thing, from coach down there needs to be a mindset of just getting solid shots off and generating those oppurtunities. It should be a lot easier finding a top of the circle one timer than trying to sift a net front one timer through a maze of bodies .

I think it's a mix of system and poor execution.

Oilers like to push the puck high on entry and/or throw it to a stationary winger on the wall. If the puck got launched immediately when it goes high then this might work, but we often don't have anyone driving the middle opening a lane. D man then sits on it because the perception is probably that any shot is low%, so then it gets kicked to the other D man and the never ending perimeter cycle commences.

If the puck goes high on entry it has to go low immediately, even if the shot is low%. Short of that we need a lot more guys driving the puck low or to the net rather than continually try and pass their way there and fail.

 

[TheNumber4]

My addled thinking was Provorov covers the immediate need and expanding to add contract controlled Jiricek justifies putting their 1st round pick in play for a UFA d (which they can't afford to do). Though I think Provorov might consider re-signing on a Cup competitive team.

I'd trade Savoie for Jiricek. Easier and cheaper to find replacement wingers notably small skill ones. Building up a strong, deep and big defense corp is where I would prioritize.

Beyond the asset challenge between these two teams, I'm not confident Jiricek walks onto a Cup contender Oiler roster this season so he likely gets more development time in Bako.

In down for Provorov out of the options that have been tabled. But like you said, might be tough to get them both in a package deal.

I agree, player type it makes sense that you trade the skilled winger for a hulking RHD. We find wingers in free agency all the time. What we never find is RHD save for that one time we went after Gudas but he chose lifestyle over winning.

Let’s say Savoie has an 80% chance of making it and Jiricek has an 80% chance of making it. If it’s the same, you gotta choose the harder to fill position.

It’s too bad Jiriceks agent got in his head. If he wasn’t such a primadonna demanding NHL time and PP time it would be a slam dunk for me. Last thing I want is to import a headache if things don’t work out exactly as his agent wants.

 

[Slats432]

noted hockey expert Tyler Yaremchuk

I don't subscribe to Tyler's analysis in general, but those two examples weren't necessarily wrong.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think it's a mix of system and poor execution.

Oilers like to push the puck high on entry and/or throw it to a stationary winger on the wall. If the puck got launched immediately when it goes high then this might work, but we often don't have anyone driving the middle opening a lane. D man then sits on it because the perception is probably that any shot is low%, so then it gets kicked to the other D man and the never ending perimeter cycle commences.

If the puck goes high on entry it has to go low immediately, even if the shot is low%. Short of that we need a lot more guys driving the puck low or to the net rather than continually try and pass their way there and fail.

It makes sense. If you are kicking it high it should open up space and coverage down low for us to take advantage of.

 

[TheNumber4]

Fair...again I will say though, I don't really care what he wants.

Im a bit worried about Savoie’s production. But I don’t watch Bako. So I won’t say nothing. But the production is underwhelming. Yamamoto is out producing him right now.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Agree, his first step is slow and his skating stride is short and almost shuffling which limits into a short burst. Critical is his four way agility and area defending with size. The critical component is his processor maturing into decision making against fast, aggressive apex level competition. This is the critical speed of game gap of an immature prospect D. His skating technique can still be developed though it won't ever be a defining characteristic.

Unfortunately he's not a fit for Edmonton who have limited assets and a more urgent need for a veteran mature top 4 d-man to complete a Cup Level defense corp. I had proposed a hedge trade idea of going after Provorov and Jiricek as a package for immediate help and future, sustaining window acquisition with their 1st, Akey, and 2nd round picks. That would hedge the 1st for a UFA Provorov. But a poster rightly commented C-Bus likely gets more value selling off the two players separately.

I'd love a future NHL near ready high-end defense prospect in the system. But think there are teams better positioned to give up assets and deliver the opportunity required that we know from recent first hand experience is primary motivator for young players.

I question why the organization who knows this player best would be willing to cut bait so soon on a very high pick whose value is likely depressed at the moment.

You’ve got a high end prospect who’s D+3 and who’s had good results against pro competition. Jackets aren’t a team that’s not expected to contend any time soon, they have a need for this type of player and they’ve got good veteran defenders in Werenski, Provorov, Severson that they can insulate/pair him with. To me it’s a bit of a red flag that they’d be willing to trade this player all things considered.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Im a bit worried about Savoie’s production. But I don’t watch Bako. So I won’t say nothing. But the production is underwhelming. Yamamoto is out producing him right now.

Yamo is much older and Bako is underwhelming offensively overall. With all due respect to Noah Philp, he's not at #1C, plus they've had some injuries. I know Pederson has been out for a bit. Though his production hasn't been perfect, Savoie's been on for 14 GF and only 7 GA 5 on 5 this year.

So he's playing good hockey, I hope we see him up this weekend.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

In down for Provorov out of the options that have been tabled. But like you said, might be tough to get them both in a package deal.

I agree, player type it makes sense that you trade the skilled winger for a hulking RHD. We find wingers in free agency all the time. What we never find is RHD save for that one time we went after Gudas but he chose lifestyle over winning.

Let’s say Savoie has an 80% chance of making it and Jiricek has an 80% chance of making it. If it’s the same, you gotta choose the harder to fill position.

It’s too bad Jiriceks agent got in his head. If he wasn’t such a primadonna demanding NHL time and PP time it would be a slam dunk for me. Last thing I want is to import a headache if things don’t work out exactly as his agent wants.

I saw Provorov play a lot in junior a millions years ago and loved his game. Think there's still a really good versatile d-man there who can reset within a winning environment and with reasonable support minutes and responsibilities versus massive ice on sustained losing teams. But I don't believe the Oilers can afford to throw limited assets at a UFA.

Regarding Jiricek, this like all players is driven by their frustration and the agent is the mouthpiece employed to 'fight' for the player with management. These situations are virtually always shades of grey versus black and white though one growing trend we see first-hand is these modern era young players will increasingly choose opportunity over team situations. Careers are short and they want to play. In Jiricek's case there are some mixed messages allegedly like being told to find a place in Columbus then getting farmed out. So much information we are missing to make declarative comments though about player's character.

We'll see where Jiricek lands and if he can reach anywhere near the scouting projections of his abilities.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yamo is much older and Bako is underwhelming offensively overall. With all due respect to Noah Philp, he's not at #1C, plus they've had some injuries. I know Pederson has been out for a bit. Though his production hasn't been perfect, Savoie's been on for 14 GF and only 7 GA 5 on 5 this year.

So he's playing good hockey, I hope we see him up this weekend.

This weekend? There’s a chance?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

This weekend? There’s a chance?

Well the Oilers will be without Hyman and Arvidsson, so seems like a good idea to see what Savoie can do in a limited window.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Im a bit worried about Savoie’s production. But I don’t watch Bako. So I won’t say nothing. But the production is underwhelming. Yamamoto is out producing him right now.

Yams also has years and years of NHL and AHL experience. Savoie barely has a cup of coffee in pro hockey and he’s still one of the best players on his team.

 

[TheNumber4]

I saw Provorov play a lot in junior a millions years ago and loved his game. Think there's still a really good versatile d-man there who can reset within a winning environment and with reasonable support minutes and responsibilities versus massive ice on sustained losing teams. But I don't believe the Oilers can afford to throw limited assets at a UFA.

Regarding Jiricek, this like all players is driven by their frustration and the agent is the mouthpiece employed to 'fight' for the player with management. These situations are virtually always shades of grey versus black and white though one growing trend we see first-hand is these modern era young players will increasingly choose opportunity over team situations. Careers are short and they want to play. In Jiricek's case there are some mixed messages allegedly like being told to find a place in Columbus then getting farmed out. So much information we are missing to make declarative comments though about player's character.

We'll see where Jiricek lands and if he can reach anywhere near the scouting projections of his abilities.

Yeh I had read that story too. About him being told to find a place then not. But for the most part I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the team. No NHL team wants to screw over their prospect and mess with his head like that. It’s not in anyone’s interest. So I’ll assume it was a misunderstanding. I think an NHL agent should try to reduce those misunderstandings instead of foster them.

Yams also has years and years of NHL and AHL experience. Savoie barely has a cup of coffee in pro hockey and he’s still one of the best players on his team.

True. But if you needed a winger right now, and wanted to pluck one from the AHL. You’d probably take the one scoring above PPG then below. But this says nothing about their potential.

Well the Oilers will be without Hyman and Arvidsson, so seems like a good idea to see what Savoie can do in a limited window.

If only to give him a taste, could be good for his development.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I question why the organization who knows this player best would be willing to cut bait so soon on a very high pick whose value is likely depressed at the moment.

You’ve got a high end prospect who’s D+3 and who’s had good results against pro competition. Jackets aren’t a team that’s not expected to contend any time soon, they have a need for this type of player and they’ve got good veteran defenders in Werenski, Provorov, Severson that they can insulate/pair him with. To me it’s a bit of a red flag that they’d be willing to trade this player all things considered.

I don't.

This has been a lingering issue from a management group and coach that was fired. The fresh start hasn't taken and the player feels a fresh start is best. We're increasingly seeing today's young players utilize the systems to extradite them from organizations. There's less willingness to comply to old ways of doing things like slow cook development (whether right or wrong) in favour of immediacy. This mindset isn't exclusive to young hockey players.

Teams will have substantive direct and indirect information on a 2022 draft prospect. And ability to drill down into the current situation filtered through the reality of a scorched earth rebuilding culture. Waddell smartly grabbed Fabbro as a no cost add to bolster roster and trade flexibility considerations.

 

[McHelpus]

Well the Oilers will be without Hyman and Arvidsson, so seems like a good idea to see what Savoie can do in a limited window.

Oilers said they are going to let prospects overripe. I doubt they call Savoie up at all this season.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Savoie for Jiricek.

Would you?

I'd rather not because odds are that we'll need both guys going forward. I'd trade a 1st + Wanner/Kemp/3rd round pick for him.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yeh I had read that story too. About him being told to find a place then not. But for the most part I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the team. No NHL team wants to screw over their prospect and mess with his head like that. It’s not in anyone’s interest. So I’ll assume it was a misunderstanding. I think an NHL agent should try to reduce those misunderstandings instead of foster them.


True. But if you needed a winger right now, and wanted to pluck one from the AHL. You’d probably take the one scoring above PPG then below. But this says nothing about their potential.


If only to give him a taste, could be good for his development.

I just gave that as one specific example. Our challenge as outsiders is we see only the tip of the iceberg in terms of players and certainly nothing with their interactions with coaching and management. I imagine there's always likely accountability and culpability in both sides.

Personally, I've always placed development as overwhelmingly on the player with skill, mental strength, resiliency and grit as critical unseen component. But we've also seen the negative effect of poor development especially in badly managed organizations. In the olden days, pre-union times, there was often a punitive element of hockey management damaging player careers when they did not accept the status quo of how the business was run.

Looks like both parties have had their fill. Both have a role to play in it not working out.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Yeh I had read that story too. About him being told to find a place then not. But for the most part I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the team. No NHL team wants to screw over their prospect and mess with his head like that. It’s not in anyone’s interest. So I’ll assume it was a misunderstanding. I think an NHL agent should try to reduce those misunderstandings instead of foster them.


True. But if you needed a winger right now, and wanted to pluck one from the AHL. You’d probably take the one scoring above PPG then below. But this says nothing about their potential.


If only to give him a taste, could be good for his development.

I wouldn’t. There’s always older players who are dominant in the AHL but their game doesn’t translate at all to the NHL. Philp has 8 points and I have zero hesitation about calling him up over Griffith.

 

[Reasonable Oil Fan]

Savoie for Jiricek.

Would you?

Considering the position we are in and the needs we have right now, every day and twice on sunday. However I'm not sure the Blue Jackets would do that

 

[TheNumber4]

I just gave that as one specific example. Our challenge as outsiders is we see only the tip of the iceberg in terms of players and certainly nothing with their interactions with coaching and management. I imagine there's always likely accountability and culpability in both sides.

Personally, I've always placed development as overwhelmingly on the player with skill, mental strength, resiliency and grit as critical unseen component. But we've also seen the negative effect of poor development especially in badly managed organizations. In the olden days, pre-union times, there was often a punitive element of hockey management damaging player careers when they did not accept the status quo of how the business was run.

Looks like both parties have had their fill. Both have a role to play in it not working out.

We may not know the details. But the crux of the issue seems to be moving back and forth between AHL and NHL.

What I don’t get, is that for some organizations this is not a problem at all. No one is complaining that it’s happening to Nemec or Korchinski. But it’s a big issue when it happens in CBJ? Or it was a big issue when it happened to Broberg here? Seems to be just how things go with prospects. And some suck it up and put their head down and work, others get their agents involved and start creating headaches.

 

[TheNumber4]

I'd rather not because odds are that we'll need both guys going forward. I'd trade a 1st + Wanner/Kemp/3rd round pick for him.

It sounds like that’s exactly what’s holding back the trade. A 1 for 1 like prospect for likenprospect trade doesn’t seem to be there for Waddel so he’s downgraded his ask to a package deal. Which I would prefer too. But in the event that we can’t create a package better than contending offers, we might need to bite the bullet on Savoie if we really want him.

 

[Yuke]

They had signed Ryan Fanti as well from College

 

[McDoused]

Savoie for Jiricek.

Would you?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

We may not know the details. But the crux of the issue seems to be moving back and forth between AHL and NHL.

What I don’t get, is that for some organizations this is not a problem at all. No one is complaining that it’s happening to Nemec or Korchinski. But it’s a big issue when it happens in CBJ? Or it was a big issue when it happened to Broberg here? Seems to be just how things go with prospects. And some suck it up and put their head down and work, others get their agents involved and start creating headaches.

There are nuances within that as well. Like inconsistent usage at the NHL level often yo yo-ing between ice-time and healthy scratches; in-game ice-time being cut; sometimes team situation based with a team losing streak putting a coach's job on the line and choosing to air on established veterans. The organization's relationships with players can be wildly different pending stable or unstable situations; communication and trust (which can become damaged if talk doesn't equate action). Maturity levels, social and cultural differences can vary wildly.
Every relationship is different. We lack the essential information to untangle the giant below the surface iceberg size nuances of each and every situation.

Way too much unknown for me to jump to judgement.

 

[TheNumber4]

There are nuances within that as well. Like inconsistent usage at the NHL level often yo yo-ing between ice-time and healthy scratches; in-game ice-time being cut; sometimes team situation based with a team losing streak putting a coach's job on the line and choosing to air on established veterans. The organization's relationships with players can be wildly different pending stable or unstable situations; communication and trust (which can become damaged if talk doesn't equate action). Maturity levels, social and cultural differences can vary wildly.
Every relationship is different. We lack the essential information to untangle the giant below the surface iceberg size nuances of each and every situation.

Way too much unknown for me to jump to judgement.

Could also be that players personal judgement of the situation. I’d be interested to compare the exact ups and downs between Broberg and Jiricek versus others in that same situation. Maybe these players are just handling it different but the basis of what’s going on is very similar.

 

[guymez]

Oilers said they are going to let prospects overripe. I doubt they call Savoie up at all this season.

There is no room for Savoie especially once Kane is back in the lineup.
It really doesnt make sense to bring him up.