Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Oilers Biggest Roster Need Is?

Oilers Biggest Roster Need?

  • 2nd Pairing RD

    Votes: 44 45.4%
  • Starting Goalie

    Votes: 50 51.5%
  • Top 6 LW (RNH, Podkolzin and Jeff Skinner Aren't Getting it Done)

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Top 6 RW (Arvidsson and Hyman Aren't Getting it Done)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 3C

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Physical Bottom 6 Wingers

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Other (Post Your Opinion)

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • Total voters
    97

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
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The other question is how the f*** does this team only have 3 goalies total in the last 3 seasons?

Skinner, Campbell, and Pickard.

They have almost as many coaches as goalies ... this team is sooooo f***ing lazy in terms of looking for goalies and giving anyone else a chance.

They just marry themselves to the Koskinens and Skinners of the world for multiple years, don't let anyone have a shot and then watch guys like Talbot, Stolarz, etc. go elsewhere because you decided other guys deserved 10 chances. They let Koskinen stay here for FOUR full seasons even when it was clear he sucked, never really tried to trade him.

The attitude this franchise has towards goaltending is lazy as f***. They get the shit goaltending they deserve as a result. Even teams like the Flames, Canucks, Leafs, Jets, Habs, Sens all put more effort into finding goalies, trying different goalies, drafting/developing goalies, goaltender coaching, than the Oilers ever will.
And beyond Winnipeg and sometimes Vancouver how do they do when it comes to their goalies? You either stumble onto one of the few elite starters in this league or you make a big gamble with one of the guys in the middle class.

Throwing money at a big ticket in FA or digging into the trade capital to snatch up an 'upgrade' rarely turns out well.

We're at a point in time where the Oilers are actually using goalies that they themselves drafted and developed. We've looked at the team historically before and that is exceptionally rare.

Fact of the matter is that goalies are by far the most difficult positional players to forecast. And we have decades of results that show that whichever direction the organization chooses to take with their goalies, the fans will turn on them. I'm sure we can dig up posts from you ripping on Talbot, Dubnyk, Koskinen, Smith...

The grass is rarely greener when we move on from one to the other historically. The best we can hope for is a tandem of two guys that can hold it together for long stretches, if needed.
 
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FunkyChicken

Registered User
Jul 24, 2003
2,510
1,057
Drew O'Connor is interesting. The box cars look underwhelming, but he does lead the Pens in individual xGF. Tons of high danger chances created. He'd be 2nd on the Oilers behind Hyman.

He'd fit in well on the Oilers with his 3.6% onSH and .850 onSV% too.
Reminds me a little of Podkolzin without the nuclear right hand.
Good speed, skates straight at the puck and hits. Teams needs a couple more of those types.
 
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Sanderson

Registered User
Sep 10, 2002
5,747
472
Hamburg, Germany
Montembault actually plays in front of the leakiest team in the league, the Habs are actually what the some people think the Oilers are (or were like 3-4 years ago). St. Louis plays no defensive structure at all like Woodcroft.

Montembault would probably be quite good here. Really good athletic ability.

Adin Hill is just flat out better than Skinner. One poor start doesn't erase a Stanley Cup performance for the ages, great playoff numbers, decent .909 regular season last year too. I'd drive Skinner to the airport myself if Vegas was willing to do Hill for Skinner straight across. He'll find his game, I don't think I've seen anyone who likes playing more in Edmonton than that dude.

If you trade goalies in the 2023 playoffs, we win the Stanley Cup and Vegas is at home licking their chops. In '24 we probably would win again with Hill in net.

The sad thing is to think about it that way, that's all it would have taken for even probably 2 Cups already. This organization just cannot bring themselves to even put in that kind of effort to find that player.
That seems to be twisting reality for the sake of being able to complain some more.

For one, Edmonton tried multiple times to solve the position. It's just that you can't make people magically want to come to your place, nor can you magically force good goalies to be on the market. They tried to get Markström, and Markström signed elsewhere. They got one of the few available options in Campbell, and it failed completely. And at the same time, all the other "big" goalie UFA-signings didn't fare any better.

The UFA-market for goalies has been barren for years, and the trade-market hasn't looked much better. Half the players you might clamor for are the very type of players you would have complained about if Edmonton had tried to get them, because they hadn't shown much at all or never got to play an increased role in the league.

Be precise. Who would you have gone after at which specific point in time. How would you have made him agree to come to the Oilers / made another team agree to trade him, how would you have fit him under the cap, and how would you have made sure he stayed around for the long-term.
And no "I would have signed Nurse to a 6m contract instead" does not fly, because that's not realistic from the situation at that time.

Basically all noteworthy UFA-signings of the past few years haven't shown much at all, if not been downright bad. And most of the goalies who have done somewhat well have never played more than in a backup role, or had a tough time stringing more than one good season together.
The actual elite was never available, and what has risen through the ranks was either well regarded by their teams for a long time, or didn't look like much (to put it mildly) when they were traded for (e.g. Gustavsson, Daccord).

There is exactly one really good goalie who was made available lately, and that's Ullmark. And he just signed a deal with a cap-hit of 8m+. Good luck trying to fit that in with a cap that had stagnated for years and with new contracts to Draisaitl, Bouchard and McDavid coming up. Now, you could of course say "screw the future, if we win the Cup this year it doesn't matter if we can keep him", and that's true, but you still need to get Boston to trade him to you and not someone else, and find the necessary cap-space for it. And you also don't have a longterm solution if you happen to fall short again, which can happen to the best of teams, as you still need to be healthy and in good shape and not run into a team that is not a good fit for you or just on too much of a hot streak to beat.

Half the league is looking for a good goalie. Half the league is looking for a 2nd pairing RD. Half the league is looking to improve their top 6. There is only so much talent that is being made available, and only so much money you can spend when the cap stays stagnant for a long time. Look at Ottawa, the've been struggling for years to get good goaltending. They'd get a decent performance out of someone, and then he suddenly sinks. And that happened again and again. And they are hardly the only ones dealing with that.

Should the Oilers have drafted Wallstedt in 2021? Yes. Would it make any different right now? No. But at least you could have hoped for him to become this elite talent a few years down the line.
Should they probably have tried to go with a new goalie coach? Absolutely. Would that have guaranteed success? No, but it would have been worth a try.
Could they have tried to find anyone at the deadline? Sure, but there wasn't much worth of note available, and with that it could just as easily have caused an early exit as it could have led to a better performance in net.

Outside of that, they tried to do something, they went after multiple goalies, tried different ones on the team, it didn't work out. That happens to most teams, as only one team can win every year, and plenty of very good teams never make it all the way through. Goalies with a proven track-record are anything but in abundance. And everyone else can just as easily give you a catastrophic year as they can give you a great one. Almost every team tries to solve roster-issues every year, and plenty of times they do not find a solution. You just hope that your team can get it done regardless. And sometimes luck plays into your cards, like Vegas with Hill, who could have just as easily shown nothing at all when he came in, or could just as easily not been used at all, if the coach had opted to stay with Brossoit for one or two games more.
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,115
30,262
And beyond Winnipeg and sometimes Vancouver how do they do when it comes to their goalies? You either stumble onto one of the few elite starters in this league or you make a big gamble with one of the guys in the middle class.

Throwing money at a big ticket in FA or digging into the trade capital to snatch up an 'upgrade' rarely turns out well.

We're at a point in time where the Oilers are actually using goalies that they themselves drafted and developed. We've looked at the team historically before and that is exceptionally rare.

Fact of the matter is that goalies are by far the most difficult positional players to forecast. And we have decades of results that show that whichever direction the organizing chooses to take with their goalies, the fans will turn on them. I'm sure we can dig up posts from you ripping on Talbot, Dubnyk, Koskinen, Smith...

The grass is rarely greener when we move on from one to the other historically. The best we can hope for is a tandem of two guys that can hold it together for long stretches, if needed.

The Oilers don't even give themselves a chance. What we do is like marrying yourself to the first plain Jane girl you see instead of playing the field and at least dating other women.

We just anoint guys like Koskinen and Skinner as the defacto standard and then basically wait years to figure out if they are indeed as bad as the red flags say they are.

At least taking a f***ing chance on some other options. We could have had Adin Hill for peanuts, we could have picked up Stolarz for nothing, in fact we did have him and never gave him a chance because playing Koskinen 1003938383 more games was apparently more important. Why? Because he was designated as "the guy".

The attitude this franchise has with regards to goaltending is pure laziness. They don't like looking for goalies because "it's hard" so they do the bare minimum and hope it works out. That attitude is terrible if you are in the business of winning anything meaningful. It's time that attitude honestly ends.

Even the attitude around Campbell was pure crap ... like ok fine you screwed that up, be aggressive in finding a fix ... instead it's like the org just shrugged its shoulders and was like "well we just give up, we tried once and the lesson is never try. We'll just go with this Skinner guy from the 3rd round and hope he's Fuhr cuz y'know Fuhr was a local boy too so it's bound to work out".
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
78,620
41,571
Alberta
I am not in the know on O'Connor, but I endorse Lyon as an option, as I have mentioned before.
Drew O'Connor has worked his way up the Pens line up, I think he playing with Crosby last game v Edmonton. He plays PK and is solid defensively, skates well and is 6'3"

He's an undrafted US college guy who's just continued to play more and more with the Pens, and had 16 goals and 33 pts last year, with good fancies.

I just liked the player when I watched last game and I think he's a good fit.

 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,694
22,268
Waterloo Ontario
And beyond Winnipeg and sometimes Vancouver how do they do when it comes to their goalies? You either stumble onto one of the few elite starters in this league or you make a big gamble with one of the guys in the middle class.

Throwing money at a big ticket in FA or digging into the trade capital to snatch up an 'upgrade' rarely turns out well.

We're at a point in time where the Oilers are actually using goalies that they themselves drafted and developed. We've looked at the team historically before and that is exceptionally rare.

Fact of the matter is that goalies are by far the most difficult positional players to forecast. And we have decades of results that show that whichever direction the organizing chooses to take with their goalies, the fans will turn on them. I'm sure we can dig up posts from you ripping on Talbot, Dubnyk, Koskinen, Smith...

The grass is rarely greener when we move on from one to the other historically. The best we can hope for is a tandem of two guys that can hold it together for long stretches, if needed.
I wish you could be close to as sure you are getting what you pay for with goalies as you are with skaters. But time and again goalies either badly underperform expectations or significantly over perform for a short period of time and then regress significantly after teams invest big dollars thinking they have found the grail. Goalies are virtually always cap anchors if they underperform. You can't move them down the roster you can only sit them on the bench.
 
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belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,614
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The Oilers don't even give themselves a chance. What we do is like marrying yourself to the first plain Jane girl you see instead of playing the field and at least dating other women.

We just anoint guys like Koskinen and Skinner as the defacto standard and then basically wait years to figure out if they are indeed as bad as the red flags say they are.

At least taking a f***ing chance on some other options. We could have had Adin Hill for peanuts, we could have picked up Stolarz for nothing, in fact we did have him and never gave him a chance because playing Koskinen 1003938383 more games was apparently more important. Why? Because he was designated as "the guy".

The attitude this franchise has with regards to goaltending is pure laziness. They don't like looking for goalies because "it's hard" so they do the bare minimum and hope it works out. That attitude is terrible if you are in the business of winning anything meaningful. It's time that attitude honestly ends.

Even the attitude around Campbell was pure crap ... like ok fine you screwed that up, be aggressive in finding a fix ... instead it's like the org just shrugged its shoulders and was like "well we just give up, we tried once and the lesson is never try. We'll just go with this Skinner guy from the 3rd round and hope he's Fuhr cuz y'know Fuhr was a local boy too so it's bound to work out".
Adin Hill? The guy Vegas grabbed shortly after we gave Campbell his longterm deal? That wouldn't have made a lick of sense given the timeline.

And Stolarz is revisionist history. He was a bad goalie when we got him. A throw away contract in the deal for Talbot. It took him two full years of playing on the farm of one of the worst teams in the league to find a consistent NHL game.

Perhaps certain goalies require certain opportunities to find momentum to get their career on track. And a team like Edmonton, that's a pressure cooker of a team trying to win a Cup, isn't the greatest environment for goalies of that caliber.

For the record, I'm very familiar with Blackwood, dating back to his time in Barrie. I think he'd be an exceptional choice to tandem with Skinner. He's a highly athletic goalie that has a stellar glove hand. But he's a guy you'd want to add while finding a way to keep Pickard, who's earned a role here.
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,115
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I wish you could be close to as sure you are getting what you pay for with goalies as you are with skaters. But time and again goalies either badly underperform expectations or significantly over perform for a short period of time and then regress significantly after teams invest big dollars. Goalies are virtually always cap anchors if they underperform. You can't move them down the roster you can only sit them on the bench.

If you don't have a defacto no.1 (and we don't) then don't pretend you do. It's like we want it both ways, guys like Skinner get treated like Vezina candidates when they are not.

Take flyers on multiple guys like Vegas did in that case and see if something takes. Give yourself options and have a real contest of merit for who should be the no.1, not just one guy gets it because of some dumb narrative of being a local boy. Vegas won a Stanley Cup because they were willing to do that.

How many playoff rounds can you realistically keep asking this team to win with the 2nd best goalie before that gas tank hits empty?
 
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Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,115
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The Edmonton media is complicit in this stupid bullshit too, if Stuart Skinner was the starter in say ... Toronto, with a .881 save percentage, 72nd in GSAA .... he could be born in Maple Leaf Gardens, it wouldn't stop the press from *killing* this dude there. He'd need a police escort to get to games.

In Edmonton he gets treated with kiddie gloves, zero accountability, snapping at teammates when your own save percentage is in the toilet is just "a fun laugh".

Like lol, this dude is so f***ing lucky he plays here. Any of the US teams would bury his ass none of them care about the "local boy" bullshit and in any other Canadian market he'd be getting killed for his play.
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
26,694
22,268
Waterloo Ontario
If you don't have a defactor no.1 (and we don't) then don't pretend you do. It's like we want it both ways, guys like Skinner get treated like Vezina candidates when they are not.

Take flyers on multiple guys like Vegas did in that case and see if something takes. They won a Stanley Cup because they were willing to do that.

How many playoff rounds can you realistically keep asking this team to win with the 2nd best goalie before that gas tank hits empty?
I have no problem if they go out and try some cheap options to try and find that magic. What I have concerns about is investing a lot of the cap in hope that you find it. Reimer just hit the waiver wire. That's a name that I would have included in the group you "take a shot" at. A vet who has had over a .900 sv% playing almost his whole career who is at $1M on the cap. A deal at the deadline with retention for a guy like this makes sense. But I have big concerns about paying out assets for a guy like Blackwell at full cap because he then becomes "your big move". And if it does not work out your powder is gone and you may well be worse off.

Skinner for me is a very mixed bag. His inconsistency is a killer for this team. But he has shown that he is capable of giving the team streaks of very good play. Last years playoffs were a microcosm of what I mean. He was the reason that they lost several games early in series but his record overall in games later in series was excellent. Then he lets in a weak goal at exactly the wrong time. That's the roller coaster ride with him in a nutshell. At $2.7M I can live with some of this. At $5M+ it is a crippler.
 

belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,614
23,316
Canada
If you don't have a defacto no.1 (and we don't) then don't pretend you do. It's like we want it both ways, guys like Skinner get treated like Vezina candidates when they are not.

Take flyers on multiple guys like Vegas did in that case and see if something takes. Give yourself options and have a real contest of merit for who should be the no.1, not just one guy gets it because of some dumb narrative of being a local boy. Vegas won a Stanley Cup because they were willing to do that.

How many playoff rounds can you realistically keep asking this team to win with the 2nd best goalie before that gas tank hits empty?
Taking fliers on goalies requires you to have roles for them though. The Oilers are prioritizing the development of a guy they took on the 2nd round several years ago, and he's been progressing well. If you're adding two or three established veterans as potential backups, you're always going to have a guy or two not getting the net.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
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Taking fliers on goalies requires you to have roles for them though. The Oilers are prioritizing the development of a guy they took on the 2nd round several years ago, and he's been progressing well. If you're adding two or three established veterans as potential backups, you're always going to have a guy or two not getting the net.
You can say the same with Olivier Rodrigue who has had better AHL numbers than Skinner for several years now and was taken in the 2nd round and still haven't gotten a sniff. The Oilers are treating Skinner like he's Price except Price was subpar for one season in 2009 with .905% and the city absolutely lit him on fire. The media went at it with him and he gave it back to them, told everyone to be patient and perform great ever since. Stuart isn't like anything like Price tho. Nothing stands out about him.
 

Spawn

Something in the water
Feb 20, 2006
44,459
17,034
Edmonton
Taking fliers on goalies requires you to have roles for them though. The Oilers are prioritizing the development of a guy they took on the 2nd round several years ago, and he's been progressing well. If you're adding two or three established veterans as potential backups, you're always going to have a guy or two not getting the net.

Taking a flyer on a goalie this year would have required nothing other than signing someone other than Pickard to be the backup.

I like Pickard, and he’s fine as a true backup, but he wasn’t going to outperform the $1m we signed him for.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

Sometimes miracles
Jan 12, 2006
78,620
41,571
Alberta
I am not a Schwatz defender I just think people are blaming him too much are acting like sheep to fit in to blame him.
No, people are blaming him because he's been the only consistent part of the no-consistent goaltending for his entire tenure.

He needs to be fired, because they have to do something new.

Taking a flyer on a goalie this year would have required nothing other than signing someone other than Pickard to be the backup.

I like Pickard, and he’s fine as a true backup, but he wasn’t going to outperform the $1m we signed him for.
You take a flyer on a guy making less than $1M, you can carry 3 for a bit, then waive one who doesn't work out.
 
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Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,342
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780
Taking a flyer on a goalie this year would have required nothing other than signing someone other than Pickard to be the backup.

I like Pickard, and he’s fine as a true backup, but he wasn’t going to outperform the $1m we signed him for.
Stuart for Blomqvist. Save 1.6M
 
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belair

Win it for Ben!
Apr 9, 2010
39,614
23,316
Canada
Taking a flyer on a goalie this year would have required nothing other than signing someone other than Pickard to be the backup.

I like Pickard, and he’s fine as a true backup, but he wasn’t going to outperform the $1m we signed him for.
I mentioned it yesterday. That contract looks like it's designed to ward off waiver claims.

I agree that Pickard as a backup isn'tthe most favorable option, but he certainly earned another look after his stretch last season.

I think the Oilers are in a position to deal for a Pickard upgrade and to do so all they'd have to do is move Delia.
 

Canovin

1% is the new 11.5%
Oct 27, 2010
19,342
10,778
780
The dude has 8 career games in the NHL. You can’t deal Skinner away now for someone as unproven as that.


Ingram has worse numbers than Skinner this year and worse career numbers.

What are we doing here?
Askarov has 3 NHL games under his belt. Would you trade Stuart for Askarov?
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
28,420
23,913
The Oilers don't even give themselves a chance. What we do is like marrying yourself to the first plain Jane girl you see instead of playing the field and at least dating other women.

We just anoint guys like Koskinen and Skinner as the defacto standard and then basically wait years to figure out if they are indeed as bad as the red flags say they are.

At least taking a f***ing chance on some other options. We could have had Adin Hill for peanuts, we could have picked up Stolarz for nothing, in fact we did have him and never gave him a chance because playing Koskinen 1003938383 more games was apparently more important. Why? Because he was designated as "the guy".

The attitude this franchise has with regards to goaltending is pure laziness. They don't like looking for goalies because "it's hard" so they do the bare minimum and hope it works out. That attitude is terrible if you are in the business of winning anything meaningful. It's time that attitude honestly ends.

Even the attitude around Campbell was pure crap ... like ok fine you screwed that up, be aggressive in finding a fix ... instead it's like the org just shrugged its shoulders and was like "well we just give up, we tried once and the lesson is never try. We'll just go with this Skinner guy from the 3rd round and hope he's Fuhr cuz y'know Fuhr was a local boy too so it's bound to work out".
Other than his out of body experience for a few weeks in 2023, Hill's stats this year are actually worse than the much maligned Skinner.

You can say the same with Olivier Rodrigue who has had better AHL numbers than Skinner for several years now and was taken in the 2nd round and still haven't gotten a sniff. The Oilers are treating Skinner like he's Price except Price was subpar for one season in 2009 with .905% and the city absolutely lit him on fire. The media went at it with him and he gave it back to them, told everyone to be patient and perform great ever since. Stuart isn't like anything like Price tho. Nothing stands out about him.
The expectation for Price as a while lot higher though - drafted #5 overall.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,115
30,262
Taking fliers on goalies requires you to have roles for them though. The Oilers are prioritizing the development of a guy they took on the 2nd round several years ago, and he's been progressing well. If you're adding two or three established veterans as potential backups, you're always going to have a guy or two not getting the net.

This guy is not showing any improvement for 2 seasons now though. His lateral movement is as bad as it was maybe worse than 2 years ago.

Bring in a 3rd goalie.

This team plays favorites to certain players and it's not just goaltending but it's especially prevalant in goaltending, Desharnais gets chance after chance but Broberg draws the short end of the stick and Kesselring never even gets a chance.

Now I guess they want to die at the altar of not offending Skinner/Pickard. Would not give a guy like Stolarz a real shot, because Koskinen.

Stop treating marginal players like they are superstars or established veterans when they are not.

Bring in other options in positions of need, let other players have a chance. I bet even a Dan Vladar could come in here and perform as well as Skinner or better.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,115
30,262
Other than his out of body experience for a few weeks in 2023, Hill's stats this year are actually worse than the much maligned Skinner.


The expectation for Price as a while lot higher though - drafted #5 overall.

Uh no, Hill was better last year and was .930 again in the playoffs last year. We win the Cup last year if we had Adin Hill instead of Stuart Skinner, don't kid yourself.

Just because he's had a bad start to the year this year doesn't change that. Skinner wouldn't hit .900+ on those Sharks/Coyotes teams like Hill did either, Skinner can't even reliably hit that in freaking Edmonton even with a defensive structure that is massively improved.

Adin Hill was .906 on a bad Sharks team in 21-22, Skinner couldn't even match that number last year playing behind the best team in the NHL from Nov. 12 onwards (so 80% of the season).
 

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